• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Threegoofs said:
When a large contingent of people and sentient horses protest their civil rights being infringed, I think we will seriously have to consider that.

I'm sure the people of Alabama would have appreciated their local government to decide about interracial marriage and having integrated schools. But that wouldnt be right, would it?
Click to expand...

Wouldn't it?

If the federal government hadn't stepped in, would Alabama still be segregated today? I seriously doubt it. Just because progress sometimes occurs more slowly in some places compared to others, doesn't give Uncle Sam the right to force-feed that progress upon an unwilling public.

You have to let things run their course, let people determine their own destiny.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Not out of a sense of nostalgia. Out of a sense of mind your own damn business. Don't come in to a southern state with your DC activism bullcrap, forcing your progressive ideals on a population that doesn't want them.

Live and let live.
Click to expand...

I think that gay people would agree with the "mind your own business" sentiment, thus the current situation.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

clownboy said:
Can't on the 14th, "interracial" was what it was about. It wasn't however about homosexuality.
Click to expand...

The 14th amendment doesnt mention race.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Wouldn't it?

If the federal government hadn't stepped in, would Alabama still be segregated today? I seriously doubt it. Just because progress sometimes occurs more slowly in some places compared to others, doesn't give Uncle Sam the right to force-feed that progress upon an unwilling public.

You have to let things run their course, let people determine their own destiny.
Click to expand...

I feel no particular compulsion to wait for voters to be ready for individual liberty.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
I feel no particular compulsion to wait for voters to be ready for individual liberty.
Click to expand...

Do you live in Alabama? No? Then it's none of your damn business how they go about their lives. Should we conquer Cuba in order to install a democracy? I mean after all, I feel no particular compulsion to wait for the Cubans to be ready for individual liberty.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Threegoofs said:
You're kidding, right?
Click to expand...

Not at all. Look, we fought a revolutionary war. yay, us. Meanwhile, Canada gained their independence simply by letting history take its course.

For some reason, in this country, we feel compelled to turn everything in to a civil war. Everything's gotta be a damn battle to be fought.

Chill, and just let things play out. You really think Alabama would still be segregated today if the Feds hadn't stepped in? No chance! With television, the internet, everyone is so much more interconnected these days. That relic of history would have run its course. And the concept of state's rights would still somewhat be in tact.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Do you live in Alabama? No? Then it's none of your damn business how they go about their lives. Should we conquer Cuba in order to install a democracy? I mean after all, I feel no particular compulsion to wait for the Cubans to be ready for individual liberty.
Click to expand...

I see. So in Alabama, individual liberty takes a back seat to the moral disapproval of the voters.

Unfortunately for you, the constitution and the courts disagree.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
I see. So in Alabama, individual liberty takes a back seat to the moral disapproval of the voters.

Unfortunately for you, the constitution and the courts disagree.
Click to expand...

Ahh, an appeal to authority. Awesome. So the courts disagree, therefore I'm wrong.

Using your logic, slavery was justified in the early 1800's because the courts upheld it and it was legal. So which is it? Are the courts almighty or aren't they?

Personally, I hate living in a jurocracy. I prefer to let the people govern themselves, as opposed to an unelected judge "interpreting" the constitution however his agenda sees fit. But maybe I'm weird.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Ahh, an appeal to authority. Awesome. So the courts disagree, therefore I'm wrong.

Using your logic, slavery was justified in the early 1800's because the courts upheld it and it was legal. So which is it? Are the courts almighty or aren't they?

Personally, I hate living in a jurocracy. I prefer to let the people govern themselves, as opposed to an unelected judge "interpreting" the constitution however his agenda sees fit. But maybe I'm weird.
Click to expand...

These judges are unelected specifically so their decisions will be based on the law and the constitution rather than worrying about their re-election. I know you personally would rather have judges change their decision based on election math and corporate donations, but not me.

Maybe I am weird, but I think individual liberty is more important than your tyranny of the people. Is there a reason you didn't respond to that point?

And what about your interpretation? Why is yours sacrosanct?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Deuce said:
These judges are unelected specifically so their decisions will be based on the law and the constitution rather than worrying about their re-election. I know you personally would rather have judges change their decision based on election math and corporate donations, but not me.

Maybe I am weird, but I think individual liberty is more important than your tyranny of the people. Is there a reason you didn't respond to that point?

And what about your interpretation? Why is yours sacrosanct?
Click to expand...

(bold mine)

Looks like my point about the rights of gay people is going to get ignored too.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

SlevinKelevra said:
My point was I *perhaps erroneously* assumed those lower judges are elected on a local level. And by doing their job, they would be voted out by the bigots that put this guy in power to begin with.
Click to expand...

They could very well be, but they wouldn't then be in contempt of court, disbarred and sued

Besides, not of them are qualified to be in the position to begin with, if they have no respect for federal court rulings and can only cite the bible
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Cardinal said:
(bold mine)

Looks like my point about the rights of gay people is going to get ignored too.
Click to expand...

Libertarians that abandon individual liberty just because 53% of the population disapproves should really call themselves something else.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Have you read any American history?

We're the UNITED STATES, emphasis on STATES. The way things are now, we ought to change the name of our country to the American Federal Republic.

What the hell does a state do anymore? I'll tell you, what we have become is NOT what the original founders had in mind.
Click to expand...

"American Federal Republic"

I'm ok with that.

States rights don't work when they are discriminating against people in violation of the federal constitution.

Federal rights supersede states rights.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

paddymcdougall said:
since cases like Loving in the 1960s

And the cases where prisoners got the right to marry as part of their constitutional rights

States can control things like how the prisoner ceremony happens, but even Charles Manson has the right to marry

Once marriage is defined as an inalienable right, states can't frack it up anymore by discriminating against couples based on race or gender. Or prison status
Click to expand...

impossible to be right, because it requires an action by government.

its a privilege, because privileges requires an action....not rights

but i agree, if the privilege is granted, then it must be granted to all
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Judge Moore wants a theocracy.

Too bad for him.

Talibornagain nutcase.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

paddymcdougall said:
I don't know if, in most cases, voters pay that much attention to judges. But if someone decides to put a lot of publicity around it then yes, it's possible they'd be voted out. For following the federal constitution...that would suck
Click to expand...

All the competition would have to do in alabama is run a 30 sec radio spot or put an ad in "Segregation Forever" alleging that "Judge X allowed degenerates to marry in his county in defiance of the state constitution" with no mention of the federal court ruling, and that will be curtains for the judge

This is the huge problem i have with democracy with no limitations
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Redress said:
That was not his reasoning, no. Here is his dissent in full: http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/14pdf/14a840_gol1.pdf. What should be noted is that he does make very good points in his dissent. If SCOTUS should rule against SSM, then it does leave the states with kinda a mess. It might very well have been better to grant the stay and let things be more fully resolved before the state starts allowing SSM.
Click to expand...

His point would be valid if there were any remote possibility of an "If", but there's not. The one circuit case they took was the one that ruled against SSM. That's no coincidence
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Redress said:
While certainly possible, it is by no means guaranteed why. Further, if it is such a signal, it is entirely inappropriate. I am as pro-SSM as you can be, but I do kinda think that a wait of a few more months is not going to kill any one and prevent a possible mess. Thomas does a good job of explaining why a stay would have been reasonable.
Click to expand...

This is pretty ignorant. If even once person is unable to visit their partner in the hospital, or dies before able to marry, in the coming months, it will be one too many. The only injustice is the court waited this long. Should've been dealt with back in 2008

I get what you're saying that the oral arguments in the spring will be rendered meaningless showmanship, because the justices already decided how they'll vote, but in truth, this issue has been argued to death and there's no need for any more.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

paddymcdougall said:
"American Federal Republic"

I'm ok with that.

States rights don't work when they are discriminating against people in violation of the federal constitution.

Federal rights supersede states rights.
Click to expand...

What about when the Feds discriminate against individual rights, who do you appeal to then?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
Not out of a sense of nostalgia. Out of a sense of mind your own damn business. Don't come in to a southern state with your DC activism bullcrap, forcing your progressive ideals on a population that doesn't want them.

Live and let live.
Click to expand...

There is nothing "live and let live" about your position, and the challenges to the law came from alabama citizens, not "DC activists"

Keep blaming 'activist judges' for your heinous beliefs, when they are nowhere near in the majority anymore either
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
What about when the Feds discriminate against individual rights, who do you appeal to then?
Click to expand...

the supreme court - see: "DOMA"

but this rarely ever happens in comparison to extremist southern states, which take pride in discrimination
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Peter Grimm said:
What about when the Feds discriminate against individual rights, who do you appeal to then?
Click to expand...

SCOTUS.

Do you think this is some sort of argument that supports state discrimination against individuals?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

chromium said:
There is nothing "live and let live" about your position, and the challenges to the law came from alabama citizens, not "DC activists"

Keep blaming 'activist judges' for your heinous beliefs, when they are nowhere near in the majority anymore either
Click to expand...

Then let the people of Alabama vote on gay marriage in their state
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Taylor said:
Doing their job entails following *both* state and federal court orders, and because the federal ruling is non-binding on Alabama state courts, there's the potential to be caught in the middle of a battle that can only be resolved by the SCOTUS.
Click to expand...

There is a very clear hierarchy in jurisdiction and supremacy. Probate courts are nowhere near the authority of state supreme courts, which are nowhere near the authority of federal courts + appeals court refuses stay + SCOTUS refuses stay

This is not goddamn rocket science or even 8th grade social studies
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom