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Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Race was the main reason for us. Food, my wife loved Chinese food and I could cook.

That's awesome . . .. so real Chinese food or American Chinese food?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Since I'm playing catch up on this topic I just found this article.

Alabama's Stand Against Gay Marriage Crumbles - ABC News

Alabama's Stand Against Gay Marriage Crumbles

Alabama's stand against gay marriage crumbled Friday as judges in most counties sided with federal courts rather than their own chief justice, a Republican who once called homosexuality an inherent evil.Many counties in the Bible Belt state began issuing the licenses to same-sex couples after the latest strongly worded order from U.S. District Judge Callie Granade. She said Thursday that a judge could no longer deny marriage licenses to gays and lesbians, reiterating her ruling striking down the state's ban on same-sex marriage."These numbers represent a seismic shift in favor of equality and justice. Resistance to happy, loving and committed same-sex couples getting married is quickly crumbling throughout the state," said Fred Sainz, a top spokesman for the Human Rights Campaign, which has been lobbying to expand gay rights nationwide.

About 20 of Alabama's 67 counties allowed gays and lesbians to wed on Monday. By Friday that number had jumped to at least 47, the Human Rights Campaign said. Other counties said they would revisit the decision next week.Granade's ruling made Alabama the 37th state where gays and lesbians can legally wed. It also continued her family legacy of bringing sweeping change to a place where many people didn't yet welcome it. Her grandfather was Richard Rives, a federal appellate judge whose rulings helped desegregate the South despite resistance to the Civil Rights movement in the 1950s and 1960s."Judge Rives, my grandfather, really is my personal hero," Granade said during her 2001 Senate confirmation hearing. She denied then that "judicial activism" describes what her grandfather did — or what she might do."The issues on which he more or less broke with precedent were ones which really flew in the face of the Constitution," she said. "I think a judge will always be correct if the decisions that he or she makes are consistent with the plain language of the Constitution."



Good for her! That's also interesting about her grandfather being one of the people that also fought against injustice, hate and bigotry.
 
If you don't support equal rights for all adults, you are a bigot. If that is what you believe, why complain about being accurately labeled?

I support equal rights, and I don't need someone like you to tell we what they are.

What I don't support is whiny fools that are perfectly fine with ignoring the Constitution to get what they want. Although, they will quickly invoke the Constitution when they feel it suits their needs.

Further, it is the mark of a frustrated, ignorant person to start calling names. It proves to me that you are unable to make a logical argument, thus you feel (or know) deep down that you can not support your argument with facts, and you are wrong.

So, you resort to name calling. And, I say thanks for admitting that you are wrong!
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

How do you know that the rights are from god? No recorded instance of god making the decree. Just mankind speaking for their god.

So, if we forget about god, then we have no god given rights, right?

Doesn't mean that we don't have inalienable rights. Whether they are from God or not is beside the point, so I don't know why you are dwelling on it.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Doesn't mean that we don't have inalienable rights. Whether they are from God or not is beside the point, so I don't know why you are dwelling on it.

How do you arrive at that? How are the rights inalienable?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Tell us ONE RIGHT that you get "organically" for being a living creature on this planet, and tell us how you get it.

There is no right. Nature doesn't give a frack about rights.

Rights come from forming together in a civilization and deciding what rights we will grant one another.

Before civilization? nada. nothing. Nature's a bitch.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ever hear of those? You are born with them, nobody gives them to you. I guess you believe that all men are not created equal.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ever hear of those? You are born with them, nobody gives them to you. I guess you believe that all men are not created equal.

He's saying that those rights can be taken away by oppression so they aren't inalienable.

You are saying people have those rights even if someone is oppressing them.

Can we stop quibbling over interpretations of "inalienable" now?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Hahah that's funny I knew you would fail. I'll ask you again, can you point out "my" intolerance. I bet you fail again.

Maybe like bigot, tolerance is a word you don't understand, here ill help you:

intolerant
1: unable or unwilling to endure
2a : unwilling to grant equal freedom of expression especially in religious matters
2b : unwilling to grant or share social, political, or professional rights : bigoted

I mean come on, you've got to be kidding! You come on here, make those type of remarks, then it's, "Who? Little old me?" Give me a break.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Come again? What response?

So you can show an example of how I'm a bigot or was intolerant? Please do so now thanks?

How tolerant are you of those that have the opinion that marriage is between a man and a woman only?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

How do you arrive at that? How are the rights inalienable?

How could they not be inalienable? If you believe they are, then you believe some people have the right to take rights from others, and therefore you believe we are not created equal. So who do you believe is endowed with less rights than others?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

How could they not be inalienable? If you believe they are, then you believe some people have the right to take rights from others, and therefore you believe we are not created equal. So who do you believe is endowed with less rights than others?

What is the proof? Who decides?

I'm asking you... Do gay people have the right to marry?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ever hear of those? You are born with them, nobody gives them to you. I guess you believe that all men are not created equal.

nonsense.

If you were born in a cave in the wilderness, you have no rights. Someone - or some animal - can come along and deprive you of life, liberty or happiness in a second.

It's only civilization that says we should protect people in these areas.

But this is really a discussion for another thread. We're not talking about the vague 'organic rights' or 'inalienable rights' that some people claim. We are talking about the right to marriage, guaranteed by our constitution according to the supreme court, and whether the 14th amendment means those rights extend to same sex couples.


**** spoiler: yes, it does.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

That's awesome . . .. so real Chinese food or American Chinese food?

American Chinese?

Whatever are you talking about?

I developed a taste for Chinese in Montreal, where in Chinatown trhey had no idea what was Egg Fu Yung, nor chicken fried rice. What I discovered blew my mind. General Tso's, Lobster in black bean sauce, dry garlic ribs etc. As my career brought me west my palette become more and more sophisticated as the % of the Chinese population increased. In Saskatchewan I traveled to "Red China" in the 70's where I learned the regions....they do not have "Chinese food" did you know that? There at that time you could go to "ethnic" food outlets where you could sample Sczechuan, Mongolian, etc, all but Hong Kong.

When I came here where Asians almost equal Europeans in numbers, the food and materials used are available at any Safeway. Since I love to cook I learned Chinese. My late wife was wowed but not won with Sushi actually, she was later won with hot chile chicken with broccoli tops and cashews and a side of Barbequed eel and onions

Ever noticed there are very few fat Chinese? It's very healthy eating.
 
For those interested in the legal strategies in play on this case, I thought this piece did a pretty good job of presenting an objective summary of where we currently stand:

In Alabama, judges fight one-on-one over gay marriage

Thus far, only one probate judge has been ordered to issue licenses to same-sex couples - well, not exactly. The judge has prohibited him from enforcing the Alabama law restricting licenses to one man/one woman couples*, so technically he could refuse licenses altogether and not violate this particular order. The judge could also appeal to the circuit court, and argue that the law doesn't apply because district court rulings are not binding on state courts. While true, that argument is probably a losing one because in issuing licenses, probate judges are fulfilling an administrative or executive function (making the argument irrelevant).

Davis did not persue either of those strategies, and did what many had hoped - began issuing licenses to everyone. Many expected the rest would fall in line - and a lot of judges did - but there are still a significant number of holdouts.

The piece claims this was a "test case" and that Granade avoided a headline by forcing the order on the entire judiciary. I have yet to hear a good legal argument that even makes that possible given that most of these judges are outside her jurisdiction.

Finally, in an unexpected move, the Alabama Supreme Court ordered several judges who are issuing licenses to same-sex couples to respond to a petition requesting that the court order these probate judges to cease and desist in issuing licenses to same-sex couples, claiming that the district ruling does not automatically validate same -sex marriage across the state. Don't know that it's worth delving too deeply in the legal arguments here, because it's likely the case will be thrown out due to plaintiffs lack of standing. Then again, I didn't think it would even get this far.


*95% sure, but can't access right now, so am unable to verify
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ever hear of those? You are born with them, nobody gives them to you. I guess you believe that all men are not created equal.

Are you saying that no one can take your life, kill you? No one can put you in jail, lock/tie you up, take your freedom/liberty or keep you from pursuing happiness? The only reason that you are free to do these things is because someone, somewhere has fought for you and others (including likely you) are willing to fight to maintain it. Once no one is willing to fight for that right, then it could easily be gone.
 
For those interested in the legal strategies in play on this case, I thought this piece did a pretty good job of presenting an objective summary of where we currently stand:

In Alabama, judges fight one-on-one over gay marriage

Thus far, only one probate judge has been ordered to issue licenses to same-sex couples - well, not exactly. The judge has prohibited him from enforcing the Alabama law restricting licenses to one man/one woman couples*, so technically he could refuse licenses altogether and not violate this particular order. The judge could also appeal to the circuit court, and argue that the law doesn't apply because district court rulings are not binding on state courts. While true, that argument is probably a losing one because in issuing licenses, probate judges are fulfilling an administrative or executive function (making the argument irrelevant).

Davis did not persue either of those strategies, and did what many had hoped - began issuing licenses to everyone. Many expected the rest would fall in line - and a lot of judges did - but there are still a significant number of holdouts.

The piece claims this was a "test case" and that Granade avoided a headline by forcing the order on the entire judiciary. I have yet to hear a good legal argument that even makes that possible given that most of these judges are outside her jurisdiction.

Finally, in an unexpected move, the Alabama Supreme Court ordered several judges who are issuing licenses to same-sex couples to respond to a petition requesting that the court order these probate judges to cease and desist in issuing licenses to same-sex couples, claiming that the district ruling does not automatically validate same -sex marriage across the state. Don't know that it's worth delving too deeply in the legal arguments here, because it's likely the case will be thrown out due to plaintiffs lack of standing. Then again, I didn't think it would even get this far.


*95% sure, but can't access right now, so am unable to verify

The decision was valid for every judge that could possibly come up through the federal district court that heard the first case, whether they want to believe that or not. It is unreasonable to believe that the judge in the first case would rule any differently in subsequent cases when she specifically said the "state of Alabama" did not have a case there.

This is all just these judges acting like children. Refer back to my analogy from earlier. They want to pretend the ruling doesn't apply, which does nothing but waste time and money. I hope they get sued and found liable for damages.
 
The decision was valid for every judge that could possibly come up through the federal district court that heard the first case, whether they want to believe that or not.
Not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, but if you're talking about judges under her jurisdiction, they are not legally bound by the decision until they are enjoined by the court, but that's a fairly simple matter as it was for Davis (they would only be delaying things for a few extra days).
 
This is all just these judges acting like children. Refer back to my analogy from earlier. They want to pretend the ruling doesn't apply, which does nothing but waste time and money. I hope they get sued and found liable for damages.
It's not as easy as that, many are simply trying to do what's required under the law. They're getting sued for issuing licenses and sued for not issuing licenses. Many are just doing what their lawyers advise them to do. Most just want this to be over.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

What is the proof? Who decides?

I'm asking you... Do gay people have the right to marry?

Sure, they always have. I don't know why they would want to, since marriage involves two people of the opposite sex.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

nonsense.

If you were born in a cave in the wilderness, you have no rights. Someone - or some animal - can come along and deprive you of life, liberty or happiness in a second.

Ah, so in that situation you have no right to life, liberty, etc...? Well, if a person is killed, they lose their life. But, at what point did they lose their right to live? See how that does not work?

It's only civilization that says we should protect people in these areas.

Protect? Where does that come in? You have no right to protection.

But this is really a discussion for another thread. We're not talking about the vague 'organic rights' or 'inalienable rights' that some people claim. We are talking about the right to marriage, guaranteed by our constitution according to the supreme court, and whether the 14th amendment means those rights extend to same sex couples.

Wait, nobody has the right to live, but everyone has the right to get married??? And it's guaranteed by the Constitution? It's not, but the left is hoping to get 5 justices that thinks it's okay and will ignore the Constitution. After Obamacare, I'm not sure they have even read the Constitution.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

I mean come on, you've got to be kidding! You come on here, make those type of remarks, then it's, "Who? Little old me?" Give me a break.

What types of remarks?
Would you like to follow in the other posters foots steps and have your made up posts totally lose too? Please tell show us where my intolerance is, we'll be waiting.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

How tolerant are you of those that have the opinion that marriage is between a man and a woman only?
Very, people are allowed to have that opinion all they want. Any other questions?
 
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Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

American Chinese?

Whatever are you talking about?

I developed a taste for Chinese in Montreal, where in Chinatown trhey had no idea what was Egg Fu Yung, nor chicken fried rice. What I discovered blew my mind. General Tso's, Lobster in black bean sauce, dry garlic ribs etc. As my career brought me west my palette become more and more sophisticated as the % of the Chinese population increased. In Saskatchewan I traveled to "Red China" in the 70's where I learned the regions....they do not have "Chinese food" did you know that? There at that time you could go to "ethnic" food outlets where you could sample Sczechuan, Mongolian, etc, all but Hong Kong.

When I came here where Asians almost equal Europeans in numbers, the food and materials used are available at any Safeway. Since I love to cook I learned Chinese. My late wife was wowed but not won with Sushi actually, she was later won with hot chile chicken with broccoli tops and cashews and a side of Barbequed eel and onions

Ever noticed there are very few fat Chinese? It's very healthy eating.
Awesome but you know what I mean there is not General TSO in china or at least that's not where it came from. I was just watching a special the other day how some people are actually making an alright buck now selling american Chinese in china.

China gets taste of American-style Chinese food at Fortune Cookie restaurant - CBS News
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Sure, they always have. I don't know why they would want to, since marriage involves two people of the opposite sex.

Reminds me of when blacks had the right to drink out of fountains, just not the whites only fountains. They have always had the right . . oy vey
 
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