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Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses[W:344,535,718]

paddymcdougall said:
Federal court told state court what to do. For now, one judge. Other judges will be sued and told the same thing if they continue not to issue licenses.
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It's like their children. "Well you didn't tell each of us to follow the laws/rules, only that person."
 
Taylor said:
What does an order forcing a single judge working in an executive role in issuing a marriage license to a single couple have to do with showing that "federal court rulings are not binding on state courts?"
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Seriously? This is truly like dealing with children. "Well you only told Billy not to pull Suzy's hair. You didn't tell him he couldn't pull Mandy's hair or that Tim couldn't pull Suzy's hair." Children.
 
Taylor said:
What does an order forcing a single judge working in an executive role in issuing a marriage license to a single couple have to do with showing that "federal court rulings are not binding on state courts?"
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It has everything to do with it. Feds told Moore to pound sand.

As to your "a single couple" -- you obviously didn't read the Order. Note the words "et al" in the Case Order.

A snippet:


"The Plaintiffs report that they all feel demeaned and humiliated by Alabama’s refusal to treat them equally. (Doc. 43-4, ¶ 3; Doc. 43-5, ¶ 3; Doc. 43-6, ¶ 3; Doc. 43-7, ¶ 3, Hearing Exhibits

---> Plaintiff James Strawser has serious health issues that will require surgery that will put his life at risk.
. When Strawser had surgery in the past, he signed a form giving his partner, John Humphrey, legal power over Strawser’s medical decisions, but the hospital refused to honor that document because under Alabama law Humphrey was not a spouse or family member.

(---> Plaintiff Meredith Miller wants to marry her partner, Anna Lisa Carmichael to have the legal protections and security that only marriage provides. Each day that they are excluded from marriage, they must deal with uncertainty about whether they will be treated as family members if they experience a life crisis or emergency.
Miller and Carmichael hope to have children but are concerned that if they are not married their children will get the message that their family is not as worthy of dignity and respect as other families in Alabama and that their children will be denied important legal protections that come with marriage.

---> Plaintiff Kristy Simmons wants to marry her partner, Marshay Safford, to have a legal family relationship and build stability for their children. Each day that they are not permitted to marry they experience uncertainty about whether they will be treated as family members in the event of an emergency. ( The legal protections of marriage are especially important to Simmons because she has a rare disorder called Wegener’s Granulomatosis that causes her blood vessels to become inflamed and can damage her major organs.

---> Plaintiff Robert Povilat wants to marry his partner, Milton Persinger, in order to protect one another and have the legal protections and security that only marriage provides. (Doc. 43-7, ¶ 3, Hearing Exhibit 4). Mr. Povilat has survived two bouts of prostate cancer and fears that he could be diagnosed with cancer again."


1:14-cv-00424 #55 - Order
....
 
roguenuke said:
Seriously? This is truly like dealing with children. "Well you only told Billy not to pull Suzy's hair. You didn't tell him he couldn't pull Mandy's hair or that Tim couldn't pull Suzy's hair." Children.
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It's doubtful that the other probate judges will hold out, but technically they could because they are not subject to the court ruling unless they are enjoined by the court.

It's almost 10am, it seems we should know by now if all probate judges are now issuing license.
 
roguenuke said:
It's like their children. "Well you didn't tell each of us to follow the laws/rules, only that person."
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thats actually a really good analogy

but you left out the stomping thier, holding thier breath and temper tantrum part
 
Paperview said:
It has everything to do with it. Feds told Moore to pound sand.

As to your "a single couple" -- you obviously didn't read the Order. Note the words "et al" in the Case Order.

A snippet:


"The Plaintiffs report that they all feel demeaned and humiliated by Alabama’s refusal to treat them equally. (Doc. 43-4, ¶ 3; Doc. 43-5, ¶ 3; Doc. 43-6, ¶ 3; Doc. 43-7, ¶ 3, Hearing Exhibits

---> Plaintiff James Strawser has serious health issues that will require surgery that will put his life at risk.
. When Strawser had surgery in the past, he signed a form giving his partner, John Humphrey, legal power over Strawser’s medical decisions, but the hospital refused to honor that document because under Alabama law Humphrey was not a spouse or family member.

(---> Plaintiff Meredith Miller wants to marry her partner, Anna Lisa Carmichael to have the legal protections and security that only marriage provides. Each day that they are excluded from marriage, they must deal with uncertainty about whether they will be treated as family members if they experience a life crisis or emergency.
Miller and Carmichael hope to have children but are concerned that if they are not married their children will get the message that their family is not as worthy of dignity and respect as other families in Alabama and that their children will be denied important legal protections that come with marriage.

---> Plaintiff Kristy Simmons wants to marry her partner, Marshay Safford, to have a legal family relationship and build stability for their children. Each day that they are not permitted to marry they experience uncertainty about whether they will be treated as family members in the event of an emergency. ( The legal protections of marriage are especially important to Simmons because she has a rare disorder called Wegener’s Granulomatosis that causes her blood vessels to become inflamed and can damage her major organs.

---> Plaintiff Robert Povilat wants to marry his partner, Milton Persinger, in order to protect one another and have the legal protections and security that only marriage provides. (Doc. 43-7, ¶ 3, Hearing Exhibit 4). Mr. Povilat has survived two bouts of prostate cancer and fears that he could be diagnosed with cancer again."


1:14-cv-00424 #55 - Order
....
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My bad, the order only forces a single judge to issue marriage licenses to four couples.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Federal court told state court what to do. For now, one judge. Other judges will be sued and told the same thing if they continue not to issue licenses.
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In issuing licenses, probate judges are working in an executive, not judicial role. You simply have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Taylor said:
What does an order forcing a single judge working in an executive role in issuing a marriage license to a single couple have to do with showing that "federal court rulings are not binding on state courts?"
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1:14-cv-00424 #55 - Order

It is ORDERED and DECLARED that ALA CONST ART. I, § 36.03 (2006) and ALA . CODE 1975 § 30-1-19 are unconstitutional because they violate the Due Process Clause and the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
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This injunction binds Judge Don Davis and all his officers, agents, servants and employees, and others in active concert or participation with any of them, who would seek to enforce the marriage laws of Alabama which prohibit or fail to recognize same-sex marriage.
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Taylor said:
My bad, the order only forces a single judge to issue marriage licenses to four couples.
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Only if they want to act like children and waste more tax payer money just to fight each and every case which will end the same way.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
And that would still require the other person to have HIV. If the status of the person's health is unknown to you, then you are practicing unsafe sex, no matter if you have protection or not.

Plus, which position is the guy in? If you are saying that the guy penetrating has the same potential as the guy being penetrating but only in the case of when he is having sex with a man but not a woman, then you are severely uneducated about how that works. Opposite sex couples can have anal sex.
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Can't bring yourself to admit you made a mistake, eh? Look, I don't care how you read the statistics, I really don't, but if you insist on saying something that clearly is NOT true, I will call you on it. The fact remains that homosexuality, particularly male homosexuality in and of itself, is a risk factor for acquiring HIV. It does not mean that homosexuals cause HIV, nor that by practicing safe sex you will contract it automatically, only that statistically, you're playing with fire, all other things being equal. It should be noted that exclusive female homosexuality is among the lowest rates of STD's of any kind, so there's that, which is a good thing I suppose.

Oh wait, even though you cited my perfect example to help illustrate how this works, you STILL got it wrong when you said this.

Plus, which position is the guy in? If you are saying that the guy penetrating has the same potential as the guy being penetrating but only in the case of when he is having sex with a man but not a woman, then you are severely uneducated about how that works. Opposite sex couples can have anal sex.
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Oy Vey.. Head slap? Rogue, are you arguing with me for the sake of arguing now? I illustrated to you exactly how it works with a clear example, that even a 4th grader could understand, and yet, you're showing that you still cannot grasp the concept? I don't think there's an easier way to explain it to you. Your biases here are clearly getting in the way of your reading comprehension?


Tim-
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Hicup said:
Can't bring yourself to admit you made a mistake, eh? Look, I don't care how you read the statistics, I really don't, but if you insist on saying something that clearly is NOT true, I will call you on it. The fact remains that homosexuality, particularly male homosexuality in and of itself, is a risk factor for acquiring HIV. It does not mean that homosexuals cause HIV, nor that by practicing safe sex you will contract it automatically, only that statistically, you're playing with fire, all other things being equal. It should be noted that exclusive female homosexuality is among the lowest rates of STD's of any kind, so there's that, which is a good thing I suppose.

Oh wait, even though you cited my perfect example to help illustrate how this works, you STILL got it wrong when you said this.



Oy Vey.. Head slap? Rogue, are you arguing with me for the sake of arguing now? I illustrated to you exactly how it works with a clear example, that even a 4th grader could understand, and yet, you're showing that you still cannot grasp the concept? I don't think there's an easier way to explain it to you. Your biases here are clearly getting in the way of your reading comprehension?


Tim-
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No homosexuality is not a risk factor for HIV. Unsafe sex with men is a risk factor. There is a difference. That risk is increased when you are also a man, whether homosexual or not, because of several factors, not the least of which being a much smaller group of people to have consenting sex with. You cannot get HIV from someone who does not have it, no matter how gay you are or how much "homosexual" male sex you have.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

beefheart said:
Moore got the SMACK handed to him.

It all boils down to him wanting to be a judge that follows "god's law" over the laws of the nation and the state.

He should be tossed out on his ear...again.
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How about the part where Cuomo said

“Our rights do not come from God, your honor, and you know that. They come from man... That’s your faith, that’s my faith, but that’s not our country. Our laws come from collective agreement and compromise.”

You claim Moore got a smack down, yet Cuomo makes this foolish admission. What an idiot. Really? My rights come from man? Gee, who should I be begging for my right to be free? Who gave that to me? Class A jerk.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
No homosexuality is not a risk factor for HIV. Unsafe sex with men is a risk factor. There is a difference. That risk is increased when you are also a man, whether homosexual or not, because of several factors, not the least of which being a much smaller group of people to have consenting sex with. You cannot get HIV from someone who does not have it, no matter how gay you are or how much "homosexual" male sex you have.
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Oh boy.. Ok, well it appears Gina wants us to stop talking about HIV transmission, and I will yield to her warning. I would refer you back to my example I provided and maybe you should read it again very closely, and it may come to you, eventually. ;)


Tim-
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Anthony60 said:
How about the part where Cuomo said

“Our rights do not come from God, your honor, and you know that. They come from man... That’s your faith, that’s my faith, but that’s not our country. Our laws come from collective agreement and compromise.”

You claim Moore got a smack down, yet Cuomo makes this foolish admission. What an idiot. Really? My rights come from man? Gee, who should I be begging for my right to be free? Who gave that to me? Class A jerk.
Click to expand...

While I'm impressed by your faith in an invisible man in the sky giving you rights, I kind of wonder that why, if this invisible man actually exists, he only got around to giving rights to people (errr.. well, white male landowners in a specific geographical region) in the late 18th century. Did he not get around to it in the ten thousand years of civillization before that?
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Anthony60 said:
How about the part where Cuomo said

“Our rights do not come from God, your honor, and you know that. They come from man... That’s your faith, that’s my faith, but that’s not our country. Our laws come from collective agreement and compromise.”

You claim Moore got a smack down, yet Cuomo makes this foolish admission. What an idiot. Really? My rights come from man? Gee, who should I be begging for my right to be free? Who gave that to me? Class A jerk.
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He's right. Rights only truly exist when they are recognized.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
No homosexuality is not a risk factor for HIV. Unsafe sex with men is a risk factor. There is a difference. That risk is increased when you are also a man, whether homosexual or not, because of several factors, not the least of which being a much smaller group of people to have consenting sex with. You cannot get HIV from someone who does not have it, no matter how gay you are or how much "homosexual" male sex you have.
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again some people simply have no interest in facts you word sill just go to waste
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
He's right. Rights only truly exist when they are recognized.
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Interesting, and I agree, however, who gets to recognize them, and why do they get to do so? It's hard, given your position on gay rights, to deny that in every state that has voted on gay rights specifically, they have been denied the privilege of equal marriage. Yet, it puzzles me how you reconcile the decision of one, or maybe a three person panel of other opinions, over that of an entire collective people? What we have here in Alabama, and in every other state where SSM is now recognized, when it all comes down to it, is a small percentage of people deciding the fate of a very large number of people that oppose their opinions. Doesn't sound like compromise to me, does it to you? Some say, well the will of the majority should not oppress the will of the minority, however, we both know that this really is a play-on-words for the mostly uneducated among us. We have a foundation ingrained in our society we call the constitution which affords states the right, and responsibility to govern themselves. We have a challenge by a small minority to attain special, otherwise previously unrealized rights that are not specifically enumerated within the context of the constitution. It appears we have contradicting amendments, and a disagreement about the kind of rights being sought and how they apply.

Seems one Federal judge is telling everyone what their rights now are.

Again, how do YOU, Rogue reconcile what you just said quoted above, with this current brush up?

Tim-
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

AGENT J said:
again some people simply have no interest in facts you word sill just go to waste
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Oh please.. You wouldn't know the difference between a fact and opinion if it pissed on you. :)

But, if you're game and would like to play, care to illustrate how anything I've stated is NOT, in fact, factual? Be specific cupcake.


Tim-
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Threegoofs said:
While I'm impressed by your faith in an invisible man in the sky giving you rights, I kind of wonder that why, if this invisible man actually exists, he only got around to giving rights to people (errr.. well, white male landowners in a specific geographical region) in the late 18th century. Did he not get around to it in the ten thousand years of civillization before that?
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apparently gawd hated humanity until amurricans came along
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Threegoofs said:
While I'm impressed by your faith in an invisible man in the sky giving you rights, I kind of wonder that why, if this invisible man actually exists, he only got around to giving rights to people (errr.. well, white male landowners in a specific geographical region) in the late 18th century. Did he not get around to it in the ten thousand years of civillization before that?
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I didn't say anything about an "invisible man" and I haven't belittled anyone's religious beliefs, but you go ahead.

And, actually, you can drop religion out of it if that is too much for you to handle. How about just saying, "All men are created equal"? Can you handle that one, and get the point? It kind of went way over your head initially, since you are referring to white male landowners.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

roguenuke said:
He's right. Rights only truly exist when they are recognized.
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I don't see it that way at all. Recognize my rights or not, I still have them, no one can truly take them away. They can oppress them, stifle them, and abridge them, but you can't ever take them. Because you didn't give them to me.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

Anthony60 said:
How about the part where Cuomo said

“Our rights do not come from God, your honor, and you know that. They come from man... That’s your faith, that’s my faith, but that’s not our country. Our laws come from collective agreement and compromise.”

You claim Moore got a smack down, yet Cuomo makes this foolish admission. What an idiot. Really? My rights come from man? Gee, who should I be begging for my right to be free? Who gave that to me? Class A jerk.
Click to expand...

Our rights don't come from god. Our rights come from our constitution.

We are not a theocracy, and we all don't believe in your god or Roy Moore's god.
 
Re: Ala Chief Justice Tells Judges: Refuse Gay Marriage Licenses

http://media.al.com/news_impact/other/Chief Justice Moore's memorandum.pdf

It ain't over.

4.Conclusion





In fulfillment of my obligations as Administrative Head of the Unified Judicial System, I have herein offered you my considered guidance on how the recent orders from the United

States District Court in Mobile affect your duties as an Alabama probate judge. Because, as demonstrated above, Alabama probate judges are not bound by Judge Granade's orders in the

Searcy and Strawser cases, they would in my view be acting in violation of their oaths to uphold the Alabama Constitution if they issued marriage licenses prohibited under Alabama law
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Boy I like this guys spunk, pardon the pun.. ;)

Tim-
 
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