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Exclusive: Secret tapes undermine Hillary Clinton on Libyan war[W:292]

Montecresto said:
The predator drone program and Gitmo are two good recruiting tools, too!
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ISIS is not drawing recruits because of Gitmo or drones or political correctness among liberals in the US, they are getting recruits through their military success and their own viciousness.
 
eohrnberger said:
Funny. I thought that Regan withdrew the ill-defended Marine barracks after that blast.
Are you sure you're not connecting 2 instances in history that have nothing to do with each other?
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I think the point was, Reagan was kicked out! Had it been Jimmy Carter that withdrew under those circumstances, there would have been no end to the partisan ridicule. For my part, believing we have no business keeping occupying forces in the ME, I'm glad he withdrew, rather than launching another war. Oh, and I note your glossing over the fact that Reagan had "I'll defended barracks" to begin with. Something you would be deriding any democratic president for allowing. I'm done, go back to your partisan hackery.
 
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Fletch said:
Neither party seems to care much about lies and falsehoods so long as their ideology is advanced by that deception. Democrats, for example, are about to coronate Hillary 'sniper fire' Clinton as their candidate for liar in chief to replace Barak 'you can keep you plan' Obama. When honesty isn't a virtue in politicians, how can anyone be surprised we have so many dishonest political leaders.
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You started out good, now throw in an example of right wing inconsistency for balance, otherwise your post is drooping to the left.
 
Fletch said:
ISIS is not drawing recruits because of Gitmo or drones or political correctness among liberals in the US, they are getting recruits through their military success and their own viciousness.
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You forgot to include a hatred to anything that isn't their brand of Islam.
 
Fletch said:
ISIS is not drawing recruits because of Gitmo or drones or political correctness among liberals in the US, they are getting recruits through their military success and their own viciousness.
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Keep repeating that!
 
Montecresto said:
You started out good, now throw in an example of right wing inconsistency for balance, otherwise your post is drooping to the left.
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Thanks, but I will decide what examples I use and when. Not you.
 
Perotista said:
You forgot to include a hatred to anything that isn't their brand of Islam.
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In addition, it is clear that US strikes in Pakistan foster anti-American sentiment and undermine US credibility not only in Pakistan but throughout the region. There is strong evidence to suggest that US drone strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivate attacks against both US military and civilian targets. Further, current US targeted killing and drone strike practices may set dangerous global legal precedents, erode the rule of law, and facilitate recourse to lethal force.

http://www.livingunderdrones.org/report-strategy/

Why drone strikes are real enemy in 'war on terror'
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/21/opinion/terrorism-gerges/

Pero, have you noticed that the captives being publicly killed by the Islamic State are hauled out in orange jumpsuits? You cannot deny the tool that Gitmo is!!!!!
 
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Fletch said:
Its true so why wouldn't I repeat it.
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Lol, only by repeating it does it become true in your head. Denying that US policies are exacerbating the rise of Islamic extremism in the Middle East is dangerous and ignorant.
 
Montecresto said:
Then remain the partisan hack that you are!
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Wow, it didn't take long for you to resort to name calling did it.

Montecresto said:
Lol, only by repeating it does it become true in your head. Denying that US policies are exacerbating the rise of Islamic extremism in the Middle East is dangerous and ignorant.
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I know, its all Americas fault. Yes, everyone knows that the whole idea of setting up a caliphate was dreamed up in response to Abu Ghraib and that ISIS would be home weaving carpets were it not for Gitmo. Right, you go back to hating America and I will stay here in the real world.
 
Fletch said:
Wow, it didn't take long for you to resort to name calling did it.


I know, its all Americas fault. Yes, everyone knows that the whole idea of setting up a caliphate was dreamed up in response to Abu Ghraib and that ISIS would be home weaving carpets were it not for Gitmo. Right, you go back to hating America and I will stay here in the real world.
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You have been a biased critic of the left from the beginning, seek balance and objectivity. Why is it that you can perennially blame one party in America, yet when one points out that the policies advanced by both parties are emboldening Islamic extremists, you take that pouty attitude that America is the victim and responsible for everything? Get this, prior to the folly of the invasions of Iraq and A-Stan, the regime changes of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Assad, the drone program in Pakistan and Yemen, there was very little of what we see now. The US has stuck a stick in the ME and stirred it up producing what we have today, and that is the fault of BOTH parties. But stay over there with your buddies and continue to blame everything that's wrong on the Democratic Party and believing that in so doing you are the quintessential patriot.
 
US Conservative said:
I'd think you'd want to know if a potential democrat party presidential candidate lied to get the nation into a war, a war in which her later actions resulted in the deaths of 4 Americans-lies which she later lied about.

But apparently wanting to get to the truth of the matter makes me partisan. Keep on dancing.
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Yes, we should want to know that. Just like we wanted to know that Bush lied and 1,000 times that many people died. But to fix these kinds of problems, we must be Americans first, and want what's good for the collective. That's true patriotism. What you dish up is partisanship, it starts with a "p" but it's not the same thing.
 
Montecresto said:
You have been a biased critic of the left from the beginning, seek balance and objectivity. Why is it that you can perennially blame one party in America, yet when one points out that the policies advanced by both parties are emboldening Islamic extremists, you take that pouty attitude that America is the victim and responsible for everything? Get this, prior to the folly of the invasions of Iraq and A-Stan, the regime changes of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Assad, the drone program in Pakistan and Yemen, there was very little of what we see now. The US has stuck a stick in the ME and stirred it up producing what we have today, and that is the fault of BOTH parties. But stay over there with your buddies and continue to blame everything that's wrong on the Democratic Party and believing that in so doing you are the quintessential patriot.
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I oppose liberals/collectivists/statist of both parties. But you are just mistaken. 9/11 took place "prior to the folly of the invasions of Iraq and A-Stan, the regime changes of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Assad, the drone program in Pakistan and Yemen" So much for your theory.
 
tech30528 said:
I find it interesting that there are those who will defend this administration to the death but are still distrustful of the police. Amazing what brand loyalty can do.
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What you describe is indeed amazing, and prevalent, on BOTH sides, THATS WHATS TRULY AMAZING!!!!!!
 
Montecresto said:
Kucinich is not making anything up. And while your about believing Kucinich suddenly, start listening to what he's said about Iraq, and stop being such a partisan hack.
Libya isn't the first time Americas been taken to war on FALSE PRETENSE!!!!!!!!!!!
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And Iraq wasn't the first time either.

What real threat was Vietnam to the USA? :roll:
 
JANFU said:
I doubt that a Secretary of State would ever lie to the American people, or the UN to support a case for war.
Nah, would never happen...................
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Imagine the near utopian scenario if a party held their own responsible for such things. But they're not done in a vacuum. Colin Powell wasn't before the UN scripted on his own. A Bush ambition to pull Saddam Hussein out of Iraq predates his presidency for crying out loud, PNAC, many of whom Bush surrounded himself by in his administration, saw another Pearl Harbor as a catalyst to advance the neocon addenda. Hillary Clinton told Saudi Arabia that the US would look the other way while they suppressed the threatening protesters in Bahrain that were about the same business as the protesters we were supporting in Tunisia and Libya, in exchange for Saudi support for the Libyan campaign to remove Gaddafi. When Americans actually start putting their country in front of their party, there will be no cover for either of them, but in the meantime..........................
 
Fletch said:
I oppose liberals/collectivists/statist of both parties. But you are just mistaken. 9/11 took place "prior to the folly of the invasions of Iraq and A-Stan, the regime changes of Mubarak, Gaddafi, and Assad, the drone program in Pakistan and Yemen" So much for your theory.
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I don't recall advancing a theory. Nor did I suggest that terrorism was born upon the invasion of A-Stan. I believe that terrorism (which can and has been committed by non Muslims) has been around for a very long time, in fact there was terrorism before there was America. What I have said, that you conveniently gloss over, is that US policies in the Middle East for DECADES have brought a sharp increase to Islamic extremists!!!! Deny that and you can stay over there with your buddies, I haven't time to waste here.
 
shrubnose said:
And Iraq wasn't the first time either.

What real threat was Vietnam to the USA? :roll:
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Indubitably, and I can name four before that, but then we slip farther and farther from the thread topic. We already know a fair deal about the shenanigans surrounding Libya (China and Russia are well aware of them as well, and listed them as reasons for denying the US any UN cover to pull the same **** in Syria!!!!!!!!!) and we know a hell of a lot about the shenanigans surrounding Iraq. So the best thing to do is for people to put their country before there party and this **** stops tomorrow. But we have to stop being partisans first. When's that going to happen, lol.
 
Montecresto said:
In addition, it is clear that US strikes in Pakistan foster anti-American sentiment and undermine US credibility not only in Pakistan but throughout the region. There is strong evidence to suggest that US drone strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivate attacks against both US military and civilian targets. Further, current US targeted killing and drone strike practices may set dangerous global legal precedents, erode the rule of law, and facilitate recourse to lethal force.

Strategic Considerations | Living Under Drones

Why drone strikes are real enemy in 'war on terror'
Why drone strikes are real enemy in 'war on terror' - CNN.com

Pero, have you noticed that the captives being publicly killed by the Islamic State are hauled out in orange jumpsuits? You cannot deny the tool that Gitmo is!!!!!
Click to expand...

I will not deny to a few you are absolutely right. But I would suggest to most of the new recruits what we do in Pakistan, GITMO has little to nothing to do with them joining ISIS. We could stop everything today and the recruitment would continue. This in my opinion is more of an ideological battle in which we are fighting with the military.

This war to be successful has to be fought on both fronts, the military and ideological sides. Regardless of what we do in Pakistan or with GITMO, the hard core Islamic extremist are not going to become nice to us. They have one goal, an Islamic Califat and then spreading their brand of Islam throughout the world.

We can defeat them militarily, drive ISIS out of Iraq and even destroy most of them in Syria. We have the power to do that. But ideological wise, only the moderate Islamist can defeat the extremist. Not some western power who understands little about Islam. One also has to remember factions in Islam have been at war with each other for what seems like forever. Shia vs. Sunni and then the different sects in each group.

There really is no easy answer in my opinion.
 
Montecresto said:
In addition, it is clear that US strikes in Pakistan foster anti-American sentiment and undermine US credibility not only in Pakistan but throughout the region. There is strong evidence to suggest that US drone strikes have facilitated recruitment to violent non-state armed groups, and motivate attacks against both US military and civilian targets. Further, current US targeted killing and drone strike practices may set dangerous global legal precedents, erode the rule of law, and facilitate recourse to lethal force.

Strategic Considerations | Living Under Drones

Why drone strikes are real enemy in 'war on terror'
Why drone strikes are real enemy in 'war on terror' - CNN.com

Pero, have you noticed that the captives being publicly killed by the Islamic State are hauled out in orange jumpsuits? You cannot deny the tool that Gitmo is!!!!!
Click to expand...

Yeah and the Pakistan government complains about the issue when innocents are killed. Yet why do they still request that we hit their Islamic Militants that are Taliban or now ISIS?

Does the Pakistan Government own any responsibility?

Now what do you have to say about those that just want to blame America for all their problems? Any condemnation for them? What about for those governments that keep crying and whining for the US to do something and then approve it for their own countries?
 
Perotista said:
I will not deny to a few you are absolutely right. But I would suggest to most of the new recruits what we do in Pakistan, GITMO has little to nothing to do with them joining ISIS. We could stop everything today and the recruitment would continue. This in my opinion is more of an ideological battle in which we are fighting with the military.

This war to be successful has to be fought on both fronts, the military and ideological sides. Regardless of what we do in Pakistan or with GITMO, the hard core Islamic extremist are not going to become nice to us. They have one goal, an Islamic Califat and then spreading their brand of Islam throughout the world.

We can defeat them militarily, drive ISIS out of Iraq and even destroy most of them in Syria. We have the power to do that. But ideological wise, only the moderate Islamist can defeat the extremist. Not some western power who understands little about Islam. One also has to remember factions in Islam have been at war with each other for what seems like forever. Shia vs. Sunni and then the different sects in each group.

There really is no easy answer in my opinion.
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Why would we want to do anything that recruits Islamic extremists? Aren't you tired of creating problems in the ME that call for more military response. How does the elephant in the room, that being the giant banner reading, "US policies in the ME are having the opposite effect of fostering peace", continue to be ignored by so many. Ask yourself, why are the captives being hauled out by the Islamic State and beheaded, shot in the back of the head or burnt alive in ORANGE JUMP SUITS and what could be the symbolism and message behind that. Have we lost all concept learned long ago of cause and effect??????
 
Montecresto said:
Indubitably, and I can name four before that, but then we slip farther and farther from the thread topic. We already know a fair deal about the shenanigans surrounding Libya (China and Russia are well aware of them as well, and listed them as reasons for denying the US any UN cover to pull the same **** in Syria!!!!!!!!!) and we know a hell of a lot about the shenanigans surrounding Iraq.
So the best thing to do is for people to put their country before there party and this **** stops tomorrow. But we have to stop being partisans first. When's that going to happen, lol.
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Any country where the people can't agree on anything has a problem.

OTOH- any country where the people agree on everything has another problem.

We do need some intelligent disagreement.
 
MMC said:
Yeah and the Pakistan government complains about the issue when innocents are killed. Yet why do they still request that we hit their Islamic Militants that are Taliban or now ISIS?

Does the Pakistan Government own any responsibility?

Now what do you have to say about those that just want to blame America for all their problems? Any condemnation for them? What about for those governments that keep crying and whining for the US to do something and then approve it for their own countries?
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Really???? That's simple, because they want the Islamic militants that are Taliban/Islamic State hit and NOT THEIR FREAKEN CIVILIANS. The Pd program is a colossal failure and a recruiting tool for extremists. But I know you'll continue to support it, so..........watch for more extremism!!!!
 
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