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Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

flogger said:
As a female at home concerned with personal safety consider this. In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/wmmw2012.pdf
Risk Factors for Femicide in Abusive Relationships: Results From a Multisite Case Control Study
Firearm availability and suicide, homicide, and unintentional firearm deaths among women
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The Violence Policy Center is nothing more than a gun-hating hack group. Your **** has zero credibility.

http://armsandthelaw.com/archives/VPCandPeople.pdf
 
Get that kid in uniform...what a sniper he will make.
 
Lursa said:
No, I have been telling you that you have been incapable of interpreting the statistics from the first...and you have denied it.
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No unlike you I have no need to distort statistics to support an agenda. I present them and let the chips fall where they may

I'll go find that quote. But you are the one that has waffled back and forth between intentional and accidental as you tried, ineffectually, to prove an unprovable point.
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Then went on to prove it conclusively using both child accidental and intentional death rates by firearms

here we go, where you are more than happy to use 'overall' stats to prove your point when ignoring them here in the US
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I'm sorry I don't indulge in the hairsplitting you would like me to. I just let the facts speak for themselves

Our overall gun deaths in the US are extremely low when compared to total gun ownership.
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They are horrific and are by many orders of magnitude the worst in the developed world as you have been shown multiple times now

As you've been told many times, gun deaths are mainly focused on criminals, gang members, and socio-economically challenged areas.
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Thats why you were given the under 14 child gun death rates which totally flies against that argument. Just to remind 75% of all children in the developed world murdered between the ages of 5 and 14 are murdered in the US. I seriously doubt most of your gangbangers are under 14

But *overall* the rest of America is at little risk, esp. when you consider how many guns the rest of us law-abiding citizens own.
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The numbers tell a different story with over a million Americans killed by domestic firearms over the last 3 decades. This is over double the US casualty rate for both world wars and a statistic not reflected in any other developed society
 
flogger said:
As a female at home concerned with personal safety consider this. In 2010, nearly 6 times more women were shot by husbands, boyfriends, and ex-partners than murdered by male strangers.
A woman's chances of being killed by her abuser increase more than 7 times if he has access to a gun.
One study found that women in states with higher gun ownership rates were 4.9 times more likely to be murdered by a gun than women in states with lower gun ownership rates.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/wmmw2012.pdf
Risk Factors for Femicide in Abusive Relationships: Results From a Multisite Case Control Study
Firearm availability and suicide, homicide, and unintentional firearm deaths among women
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Your source advocates policey, which disqualifies it as a valid source for debate puropses.
 
Jerry said:
Your source advocates policey, which disqualifies it as a valid source for debate puropses.
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Its high time somebody did over there. It refreshing to see a group more interested in protecting people than guns frankly
 
flogger said:
Its high time somebody did over there. It refreshing to see a group more interested in protecting people than guns frankly
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They are the mouthpiece for a gun-hating group. Nuff said. And guess what, you have to prove their numbers are accurate not me. I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt when their motives are obvious. Nice try.
 
American said:
They are the mouthpiece for a gun-hating group. Nuff said. And guess what, you have to prove their numbers are accurate not me
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No I don't. I've presented you the figures and you've rejected them on the basis of nothing more than your personal belief

I don't have to give them the benefit of the doubt when their motives are obvious. Nice try
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I will give them the benefit of the doubt until you can show me evidence of innaccuracy or deliberate falsification in their findings. You simply not liking what they have found just doesn't cut it

Sorry
 
flogger said:
No I don't. I've presented you the figures and you've rejected them on the basis of nothing more than your personal belief



I will give them the benefit of the doubt until you can show me evidence of innaccuracy or deliberate falsification in their findings. You simply not liking what they have found just doesn't cut it

Sorry
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The topic has been discussed plenty of times in other threads, with ample proof that your figures aren't correct. Medical organizations like the AMA have proven to politicize this topic for gun ownership. The medical community has zero credibility is discussing gun control, because it's not a medical issue. The same with the CDC, it's not a medical issue. You're just like the people that argue over suicide....all have been debunked. And frankly, most all anti-gun arguments are irrelevant because of the 2nd Amendment..........thanks to the British invaders over 200 years ago. We appreciate your participation. Carry on.
 
American said:
The topic has been discussed plenty of times in other threads, with ample proof that your figures aren't correct.
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So you should have no problem finding that information then. More here

Having a Gun in the House Doesn't Make a Woman Safer - The Atlantic

Medical organizations like the AMA have proven to politicize this topic for gun ownership. The medical community has zero credibility is discussing gun control, because it's not a medical issue. The same with the CDC, it's not a medical issue.
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Given they have to deal with the often gruesome aftermath I can think of nobody better qualified to comment frankly

You're just like the people that argue over suicide....all have been debunked. And frankly, most all anti-gun arguments are irrelevant because of the 2nd Amendment..........thanks to the British invaders over 200 years ago. We appreciate your participation. Carry on.
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Heads up the British are gone the Indians are gone and the west is no longer wild . Your endlessly tortured 18th century legislation is long obsolete and has in fact become a lethal liability in the modern 21st century urban world as evidenced by your horrendous firearms mortality rates
 
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flogger said:
Switzerland has a very high rate of legal gun ownership (almost certainly higher than in the even most legal US state) yet you are still 17 times more likely to be killed by a gun there than in the UK
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I note your lack of source material. This is a debate site, everything you say is wrong until you prove otherwise.

17 times more likely to die from a gun in Switzerland than the UK? According to GunPolicy.org: Compare United Kingdom vs Switzerland it looks more like 1.5 times; that's including suicide, police shooting a suspect legally, hunting accidents, and negligent discharge.

Also note that concealed carry of handguns is totally banned in Switzerland and the UK, and concealed carry of handguns is what this thread is about. The woman in the OP wasn't keeping an assault rifle in her purse. Please try to stay on-topic.
 
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Jerry said:
I note your lack of source material. This is a debate site, everything you say is wrong until you prove otherwise.

17 times more likely to die from a gun in Switzerland than the UK? According to GunPolicy.org: Compare United Kingdom vs Switzerland it looks more like 1.5 times; that's including suicide, police shooting a suspect legally, hunting accidents, and negligent discharge.

Also note that concealed carry of handguns is totally banned in Switzerland and the UK, and concealed carry of handguns is what this thread is about. The woman in the OP wasn't keeping an assault rifle in her purse. Please try to stay on-topic.
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No when you stay off the pro gun blogger sites you find its just over 17 Switzerland = 3.84 per 100,000 vs UK 0.25

List of countries by firearm-related death rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Now please tell me you understand the Swiss have a far smaller population than the UK ?
 
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Jerry said:
Wikipedia can be edited by literally anyone and thus has never been accepted as a valid source for anything.
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You cited a gun blogger site which by just stating totals rather too conveniently omitted to inform you that the UK has a population 8 times that of Switzerland

Do the math by multiplying the Swiss total by 8 and you come up with as near as damn it the same figure. Just over 17 times that of the UK
 
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flogger said:
You cited a gun blogger site .....
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GunPolicy.org is not a blog and does not advocate policy for or against gun ownership. It is an unbiased international research group.
In a sea of web sites offering unverified, polarised opinions on gun violence, GunPolicy.org provides evidence-based, country-by-country intelligence from a broad range of official and academic sources. This university site is for researchers, officials, journalists and advocates who need accurate citations and rapid access to credible sources.
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Ironically, I came to know this website when an anti-gun Brit like yourself used it to compare the US to the UK in their argument against gun ownership....and now here you are denouncing the site your own side was using. This betrays a lack of integrity among anti-gun, you care little for actual fact and more for emotional appeal.

Your gun control has killed more people than the Dublin shooter. You have blood on your hands.
 
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Jerry said:
GunPolicy.org is not a blog and does not advocate policy for or against gun ownership. It is an unbiased international research group.
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If that were really so then it would not have posted such a deliberately misleading chart :roll:
 
flogger said:
If that were really so then it would not have posted such a deliberately misleading chart :roll:
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Are you honestly putting Wikipedia over a research institution?
 
And again...
flogger said:
You cited a gun blogger site which by just stating totals rather too conveniently omitted to inform you that the UK has a population 8 times that of Switzerland

Do the math by multiplying the Swiss total by 8 and you come up with as near as damn it the same figure. Just over 17 times that of the UK
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Increasing the population increases the total sum of gun related deaths, not the rate of gun related death.

This is basic math we're reviewing now. You're saying that a car going 10kph for 8 hours is going faster than a car traveling at 10kph for 1 hour because the first car traveled a greater distance. Even when the rates are the same of course the larger population is going to have more total incidents.

With no insult intended, what level of schooling have you completed?
 
Jerry said:
With no insult intended, what level of schooling have you completed?
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Clearly far greater than yours ! Your level of defensive obsession defies belief given even simple math eludes you when it comes to protecting firearms! :shock:

Using your figures Switzerland still has a gun death rate 13 times that of the UK and thats probably cherry picking a good year in order to make it look better
 
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flogger said:
Clearly far greater than yours!
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That's entirely possible as there are many people in the world with a far superior education than my own, but I notice you aren't answering the question....
 
Jerry said:
That's entirely possible as there are many people in the world with a far superior education than my own, but I notice you aren't answering the question....
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See my earlier edit
 
flogger said:
Using your figures Switzerland still has a gun death rate 13 times that of the UK and thats probably cherry picking a good year in order to make it look better
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Consider a big part of Switzerland's greater rate includes all military related activities as well because Switzerland does not have a standing Army. I think you forgot to include gun deaths among the British Army in your figures. Please take a moment to include those numbers on the UK side and compare the UK to Switzerland again.
 
Jerry said:
Consider a big part of Switzerland's greater rate includes all military related activities as well because Switzerland does not have a standing Army. I think you forgot to include gun deaths among the British Army in your figures. Please take a moment to include those numbers on the UK side and compare the UK to Switzerland again.
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Their tiny military must be darned careless then given its been at peace for 300 years ! :lol: .Please prove that this is indeed so ?

To the best of my knowledge the only deaths from gunfire in the British army last year were in conflicts abroad and are hardly relevant to the discussion. Any such accidental deaths are rare and always make the headlines here when they happen
 
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