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Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

CaptainCourtesy said:
I watch people drive every day. I dispute the theory you just presented.
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Well, just travel to a country where the drivers are not required to have a license at all to drive.

Oh, thats right. No nation would allow that. Its crazy to give someone the responsibility for a contraption that kills people on a regular basis without requiring a modicum of safety training.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Owning a gun makes sense and shooting them is fun. However many gun-obsessed take it to the next level, seems like firearms become a sexual thing. Compensating for what's lacking in other areas so to speak.
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Like people do with cars, boats, horses, planes, motorcycles, pets, beanie babies, and video games. Your point? Other than irrelevant and not having to do with guns.
 
stonewall50 said:
Like people do with cars, boats, horses, planes, motorcycles, pets, beanie babies, and video games. Your point? Other than irrelevant and not having to do with guns.
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Guns are weapons solely designed to kill the others are not. Theres a difference
 
Threegoofs said:
Well, just travel to a country where the drivers are not required to have a license at all to drive.

Oh, thats right. No nation would allow that. Its crazy to give someone the responsibility for a contraption that kills people on a regular basis without requiring a modicum of safety training.
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Gasoline. Knives. Forks. Axes. Shovels. Baseball bats, chain saws. Hammers. On and on that list goes.
 
flogger said:
Guns are weapons solely designed to kill the others are not. Theres a difference
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Only to someone who is afraid of guns.

Oh and you are wrong. Numerous weapons are designed for targets. Long range, flying, medium, close range, and on and on. But hey, don't worry about facts. Just spout at falsehoods and believe them regardless of the numerous examples against that moronic theory that is so haggard, overused, and stupid that I honestly feel like countering it is like trying to counter someone who states that the earth revolves around the sun.
 
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Northern Light said:
You're comparing apples and oranges.

In countries like Canada where people have to take safety courses, there is no tradition of the People using armed militias to keep the Fed in check. So it doesn't matter if their government gets to decide what "competent" means.

In the U.S., the Second Amendment is founded upon internal defense of the People from the rise of tyranny. Letting the government decide the criteria for who can own guns and who can't creates a slippery slope of restricted access to firearms. In Canada, the average firearms course for first level (shotguns and long rifles) is $700, which means a class division of who can afford to become eligible.

I'm in favor of restricting firearms from people who are certifiably dangerous or crazy. No law can prevent stupidity. In Canada last year a man had his gun safe open at home to clean some of his arms, and his child went into the bedroom and accidentally shot herself while he was in the next room.

I enjoy Michael Foucaut's treatise on bio-power, whose premise is partly that in modern times, industrialized governments have become so overly concerned about preservation of life that they aggressively make prevention laws whenever a very small number of people die. As a result, we have a bloated polity and legal system due to reactionaries. We don't need to make new laws every time someone dies. We have a nation of over 330 million people -- how many people die per year due to accidental gun death vs. the total number of gun owners is miniscule.

Reasonable laws to prevent injury and address liability are important for justice, but we can't prevent all death like the growth model wants us to. It's a law of nature... accidental death happens.
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There is no 'tradition' of using armed militias to keep the fed in check in the US.

The fantasy that the founders wanted an armed mob is just that... a fantasy. They wanted state and local militia - you know.... 'well organized' to combat an out of control central government. The founders were not a big fan of mobs. Look at Shays rebellion, and then the Whiskey rebelliion - Washington send militia to put down a rebellion about taxes, instead of glorifying the protesters who had a righteous complaint on taxation.
 
Bob N said:
Apparently those parents passed the courses for concealed carry. :roll:
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Yes and no one with a driver's license ever causes a car accident either. :doh

Idiots are idiots.
 
Threegoofs said:
There is no 'tradition' of using armed militias to keep the fed in check in the US.

The fantasy that the founders wanted an armed mob is just that... a fantasy. They wanted state and local militia - you know.... 'well organized' to combat an out of control central government. The founders were not a big fan of mobs. Look at Shays rebellion, and then the Whiskey rebelliion - Washington send militia to put down a rebellion about taxes, instead of glorifying the protesters who had a righteous complaint on taxation.
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We can equivocate over what the founders may or may not have wanted, but the Second Amendment is unequivocal. "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Firearms are about militias, in the case of the United States. We have created some ancillary laws to take firearms out of the hands of people with psychiatric problems or who have been convicted of felonies, for example. On the whole, the militias (and by proxy the average person's access to guns) has not been impinged upon.
 
flogger said:
Just as well that doesn't apply to me then as Falklands war veteran with two tours in Northern Ireland :cool:
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Sounds to me like you have plenty of reason to shake in your boots at the mere thought of a firearm. Wouldn't surprise me. PTSD has numerous triggers, and that could be one.
 
Crosscheck said:
No, what it means is that not everybody should own a firearm. How do we manage that, I don't have a clue. We license drivers too but there are number out there driving who definitely should be taking the city bus.
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Cops shouldnt own them either I guess then. Has nothing to do with training...has to do with being idiots. And we dont yet have the ability to assess idiocy and irresponsibility in our society...do we? It would be nice, you know, that whole minorty report thing.

Cop here left his gun in the glove box and went into a store...left his 2 kids in the car with it. 7 yr old son killed 3 yr old sister with it.

And he wasnt even charged initially. Nothing! It took public outcry to demand it...and I was one of those people. And 2 yrs later he was tried and there was a hung jury and they chose not to re-try the case.

He didnt lose his kids, not for a day.

Edit: oops, sorry, his 'remaining' kid.
 
flogger said:
I thought it was truly sick that the response to the Sandy Hook massacre was to rush out and empty the shelves of AR15's (the weapon used to do the massacre) in case they got banned

Only in the US I suppose so go figure :(
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It's not that people were apathetic to the massacre, they thought that the proposed legal reaction was extreme and so they took measures to protect their access to guns. People are capable of caring about more than one thing at a time, you know.

Besides, Sandy Hook was not about gun control, it was about the severe degradation of the mental health systems in this country since the late 90's. Most school massacres are done by children who are either on several medications or who are actively withdrawing from them (as in the case of Sandy Hook)... severe mental health issues that are only being addressed with chemicals, not much else.

Also keep in mind that the Columbine shooters had other weaponry, including home made explosives. There's no stopping crazy people from killing if they really want to. Even the most mundane objects can be weaponized with creative license.
 
AJiveMan said:
Here we go once again, guns = cars, that didn't take long, only 2 pages in.
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Can you explain any major distinctions when it comes to safety?
 
Threegoofs said:
Hmmm.

Or MAYBE - and I know this might sound kinda crazy- we should allow gun ownership for people only if they undergo safety training and can be considered reasonably competent.
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Every state has different laws regarding guns and some have very few, including no training being required.

There is no higher incidence for accidents in states without training required.

That doesnt mean that training isnt a good idea, just that it assumes people dont or wont get it whether required or not.
 
stonewall50 said:
Sounds to me like you have plenty of reason to shake in your boots at the mere thought of a firearm. Wouldn't surprise me. PTSD has numerous triggers, and that could be one.
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Having a firearm in the home makes you far less safe. The OP being just another example

Owning a gun has been linked to higher risks of homicide, suicide, and accidental death by gun.

For every time a gun is used in self-defense in the home, there are 7 assaults or murders, 11 suicide attempts, and 4 accidents involving guns in or around a home.

43% of homes with guns and kids have at least one unlocked firearm.

In one experiment, one third of 8-to-12-year-old boys who found a handgun pulled the trigger.

In 2011, nearly 10 times more people were shot and killed in arguments than by civilians trying to stop a crime.

A Philadelphia study found that the odds of an assault victim being shot were 4.5 times greater if he carried a gun. His odds of being killed were 4.2 times greater.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/01/pro-gun-myths-fact-check

Theres nothing 'heroic' about putting your family at such a risk :roll:
 
HenryChinaski said:
Owning a gun makes sense and shooting them is fun. However many gun-obsessed take it to the next level, seems like firearms become a sexual thing. Compensating for what's lacking in other areas so to speak.
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LOL Also common with cars.
 
While I support the rights of people to own guns, I think that parents need to be very careful with how they behave with it. There is nothing necessarily that the government can or should do in this situation, this is more of a societal issue.
 
Threegoofs said:
You'd be surprised how a minimal requirement for competency can dramatically weed out the stupid and lazy.
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Examples? Because again, it doesnt seem to work all that well for driving cars.

Altho it might because I suppose we dont know the numbers for those that are weeded out? Sad because cars cause a huge number of injuries and deaths being driven by those judged 'competent.'
 
AJiveMan said:
Toddler wounds both parents with 1 shot from handgun

Toddler was a good shot, too bad the parents were stupid enough to leave wife's purse with a loaded gun in it for the kid to reach.

More irresponsibility from gun owners.

Authorities have taken their child away from them for the time being, but maybe too late.
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you should report on crimes committed by african americans and lament on "more irresonsibility of black people"........ Same logic, bro.
 
flogger said:
Guns are weapons solely designed to kill the others are not. Theres a difference
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It makes ZERO difference in the outcome.

Frequency speaks for itself, that and body count/injuries. Cars win hands down.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
This is a reflection on stupid PARENTS or stupid GUN OWNERS, not on guns in general.
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Guns with children within the area is truly ignorant, leaving a loaded gun lying around is even stupider, guns, for people who don't follow certain safety rules is a problem.
 
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Northern Light said:
It's not that people were apathetic to the massacre,they thought that the proposed legal reaction was extreme and so they took measures to protect their access to guns. People are capable of caring about more than one thing at a time, you know.
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But when theres more concern for the gun than the victim then you have some pretty serious societal ills need addressing

Besides, Sandy Hook was not about gun control, it was about the severe degradation of the mental health systems in this country since the late 90's. Most school massacres are done by children who are either on several medications or who are actively withdrawing from them (as in the case of Sandy Hook)... severe mental health issues that are only being addressed with chemicals, not much else.
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The difference being access to firearms. We have mental patients too

Also keep in mind that the Columbine shooters had other weaponry, including home made explosives. There's no stopping crazy people from killing if they really want to. Even the most mundane objects can be weaponized with creative license.
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Access to AR15s and the like make these people several orders of magnitude more lethal though
 
Lursa said:
Can you explain any major distinctions when it comes to safety?
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Leave the keys to YOUR CAR in the ignition parked on a street sometime, and let us all know how it works out.
or, better yet,

leave your loaded gun in your purse lying around with children in a room, turn away, go do something in another room,

let us know if that works out too.
 
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Lursa said:
It makes ZERO difference in the outcome.

Frequency speaks for itself, that and body count/injuries. Cars win hands down.
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Most gun fatalities are entirely intentional where most car fatalities are accidents. Its the intent involved with one and not the other that matters
 
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AJiveMan said:
Leave the keys to YOUR CAR in the ignition parked on a street sometime, and let us all know how it works out.
or, better yet,

leave your loaded gun in your purse lying around with children in a room,

let us know if that works out too.
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So it's about the user, correct? Neither acts on it's own. And both are dangerous if accessible to others (in purse, on street with keys in).

You didnt make your point. I think you made mine.
 
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