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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Haven't looked for the 70's stats. If we do find those, will you then ask for 60's stats?

I think the 1970's until 2010 would fill in the gap just nicely. I'm not holding my breath though.... :mrgreen:
 
I think the 1970's until 2010 would fill in the gap just nicely. I'm not holding my breath though.... :mrgreen:

Your confident that it's browned skinned folks from south of the border eh? Couldn't be religious missionaries traveling abroad who don't get vaccinated or tourists traveling around the globe who don't get vaccinated. Couldn't possibly be the most logical explanation could it.
 
Uhhhh people not using the medicine....?

You haven't been keeping up with previous posts nor the link I posted which agreed with what I was saying all along. The disease wasn't much of a problem even before the vaccine was ever invented.
 
You're not, but you jumped into the middle of a conversation in which I and others responded to very specific claims. I'll quote two, but you can review them all if you like:
Those weren't my quotes. You should respond to the person who made those statements. My statements were clear but let me repeat them:

Mexico is irrelevant - the illegals crossing Texas borders were from Central America, specifically Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. No vaccination info was posted by you on that, no what was in those vaccinations nor how often those vaccinations were given. Once that information is available, then we can then extrapolate using math, how many of those illegals were vaccinated and with what and when, as well as how many were not. At that point, we have a fair assessment of fact - rather than hyperbole nonsense about "blaming brown people".

OK, so notice what the claims were - illegals, none vaccinated, responsible for the re-emergence, MEXICO, hundreds of thousands of invaders, Obama did it all (of course).
My statements are not about Mexico.

That's the conversation you jumped into. If you want to point out that the vaccination rate for measles in Mexico dropped in 2013, fine. So between "none" and "89%" which person made the most accurate statement? It wasn't the person claiming none were vaccinated.
I jumped into the conversation and asked a different question about Central American illegals.

How about the specific claims it's these kids who are responsible? There is NO evidence of that, but there is evidence it was from travelers here legally, or Americans returning home from abroad.

Why are some of us pointing out the immunization rate for Mexico - because we're responding to a claim that Obama colluded with MEXICO to send these kids here.

How about the hundreds of thousands of invaders? That happened for roughly 8 straight years under Bush, zero years for Obama.

Etc. It's fine to jump in, but don't be surprised when our responses are to specific claims made by the person we are responding to, instead of some other point you'd like to address.

Mexico is irrelevant to my questions and points. Respond to those who are making claims about Mexico however you want, not my issue. I'm assuming you can discuss Mexico with them and Central America with me at the same time or is that a bad assumption on my part?
 
Couldn't be religious missionaries traveling abroad who don't get vaccinated or tourists traveling around the globe who don't get vaccinated. Couldn't possibly be the most logical explanation could it.

So post facts about non-vaccinated missionaries, dates, numbers, vaccination types, etc. :coffeepap:
 
OMG Do you not have any idea what this discussion is about?

Because in recent years, many parents have not had their kids vaccinated, after decades of much higher vaccination rates. So there are many more kids in society vulnerable to measles. :doh

Really, you are just wasting everyone's time here.

So your approach to this debate when you can't win an argument is to tell the offending poster to leave?

If my child were not vaccinated, he would not present a problem to other children, who were vaccinated because they would be protected from measles. Isn't that a fair assumption?

Not being vaccinated is not a problem because the child just like in my day before the vaccination would merely get the disease and receive a natural immunity to it. What is the problem over measles? You folks act like it's the end of the world.
 
So what do you see that is common? Unvaccinated people traveled here from a part of the world where a disease is common. They brought the disease from another country into this one and infected a place where the disease was rare prior to their arrival.

Now we have the Insane One on the golf course who invited hundreds of thousands of carriers from parts of the world where these diseases are common. That Insane Monster had his regime's minions plant the disease carriers into communities around the nation. And people are getting sick from diseases that were rare.

This has to be the silliest post I've seen in a while. The majority of the illegals coming in through the US have mandatory vaccination policies in their countries. Mexico, Guatemala, El Salvador etc. Hell, some of them even have higher vaccination rates then we do. You can't prove that it was illegal immigrants like you were asked to and now you're trying to figure out a way to blame this on all travellers. You're very new at this aren't you?
 
Those weren't my quotes. You should respond to the person who made those statements.

That is what I did when you jumped in asking for proof.

Mexico is irrelevant - the illegals crossing Texas borders were from Central America, specifically Guatemala, El Salvador and Honduras. No vaccination info was posted by you on that, no what was in those vaccinations nor how often those vaccinations were given. Once that information is available, then we can then extrapolate using math, how many of those illegals were vaccinated and with what and when, as well as how many were not. At that point, we have a fair assessment of fact - rather than hyperbole nonsense about "blaming brown people".

What's your point? If it's that some number of the 11 million undocumented aren't vaccinated, or that some of the recent children who crossed illegally aren't? OK, no one that I know is arguing that they all have been, and if they weren't vaccinated in custody of the immigration people, they should have been.

You're asking about some countries in Central America. Here's the latest CDC report I could find, covering the first few months of 2014. Measles — United States, January 1–May 23, 2014

Of the 288 cases, 280 (97%) were associated with importations from at least 18 countries. The source of measles acquisition could not be identified for eight (3%) cases. Forty-five direct importations (40 U.S. residents returning from abroad and five foreign visitors) have been reported. Almost half (22 [49%]) of these importations were travelers returning from the Philippines, where a large outbreak has been occurring since October 2013. Imported cases were also associated with travel from other countries in the World Health Organization (WHO) Western Pacific Region (seven cases), as well as countries in the WHO South-East Asia (eight), European (four), Americas (three), and Eastern Mediterranean (one) regions. Measles genotype information was obtained from 103 (36%) of the 288 measles cases. Four measles virus genotypes were identified: B3 (67 cases), D9 (23), D8 (12), and H1 (one) (Table).

And the 3 from the Americas were from Brazil, Chile, and Canada.

Mexico is irrelevant to my questions and points. Respond to those who are making claims about Mexico however you want, not my issue. I'm assuming you can discuss Mexico with them and Central America with me at the same time or is that a bad assumption on my part?

I can, but it would help if you had some point to make. If it's to discuss the vaccination rates of various countries, I'm not interested because I'm not sure how that relates to this thread. There is no evidence those countries are the source for recent outbreaks.
 
This is an interesting discussion and pardon me if comments like mine have already been posted earlier but I've been unable to read over 1,100 posts.

1. Before vaccination for measles started in the 1960s, about 500,000 people a year contracted measles in the US. Of those, about 500 people a year died.

2. Since the start of vaccinations, the cases of measles have been in the low hundreds in the US - clearly, vaccinations have worked.

3. In 2014, measles cases numbered around 500 and it was noted that the outbreak was actually of a strain of measles that was vaccine resistant. Even so, about 85 % of those contracting measles that year were unvaccinated and 15% had been vaccinated. To date, I believe it's about 100 cases of measles in the US at this time.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/30/health/measles-cases-in-us-hit-a-20-year-high.html?_r=0

4. According to the CDC, there are about 3,000 to 49,000 deaths each year attributable to influenza - the flu.

Estimating Seasonal Influenza-Associated Deaths in the United States: CDC Study Confirms Variability of Flu | Seasonal Influenza (Flu) | CDC

5. Due to concerns about allergic reactions to flu shots, these are not mandatory even for health care professionals and hospital staff in some cases.

I appreciate the desire to have all people vaccinated against communicable diseases but the hysteria now related to the vaccination for children against measles seems highly disproportional to the actual health threat and personal rights/concerns issues that exist in this context. Seems to me, some of the same people who were wailing about Ebola hysteria are now wailing about Measles.
 
Could this be a clue? How an Amish missionary caused 2014's massive measles outbreak - Vox No, that's gotta be left wing propaganda designed to demonize god fearing American Christians doing the "lords work" It's dem brown skinned folks.

Well... Vox is a left wing source you're right. But your own source identifies for Central American countries left double digits un vaccinated, yet you can track down one person you claim infected "382 Amish Ohioans" but you won't admit that one Gutemalan could do the same, and given you don't know what these South American illegals were vaccinated with or if any or all of the were vaccinated at all is all the proof I need.

You're not interested in facts you interested in spreading your left wing ideologue narrative. I can get that pretty much anywhere on DP so unless you want to suddenly get interested in facts, there's nothing but repetition on my part. Have fun in ultra-partisan land!
 
That is what I did when you jumped in asking for proof.

What's your point? If it's that some number of the 11 million undocumented aren't vaccinated, or that some of the recent children who crossed illegally aren't? OK, no one that I know is arguing that they all have been, and if they weren't vaccinated in custody of the immigration people, they should have been.
My point is not only do you not know if they were vaccinated, even if you DID know they were vaccinated you don't know what they were vaccinated against AND that the data Henry provided only covers babies to 4 year olds.

You're asking about some countries in Central America.
I'm asking about SPECIFIC countries which makes up the majority of illegals who crossed the Southern US border in 2013-2014.

Here's the latest CDC report I could find, covering the first few months of 2014. Measles — United States, January 1–May 23, 2014

And the 3 from the Americas were from Brazil, Chile, and Canada.
Were those 3 from the America's vaccinated in Brazil, Chile and Canada or some other country? What were they vaccinated against and when? What boosters were they given and when?

I can, but it would help if you had some point to make.
My point is your postion is based on missing information and rhetoric. You don't have facts - you think you do, but you don't. Getting to the bottom of this issue regarding if illegals have spread disease into the US means getting the information I've already asked about. That information may or may not be available but it's what is necessary and I'm not going to make some bs judgement call based on liberal or conservative talking points created for the ignorant to parrot. That's my point.
 
100 cases of measles in a population of 400 million, now the mandatory vaccines are called for.... Problem Reaction Solution. First a problem is created and designed to elicit a certain reaction out of the public. Then the people demand something be done about the problem and willingly accept the pre-planned New World Order solution; a solution that always involves actions or legislation that never would have passed under normal circumstances.

“It works like this – the manipulating body covertly creates a problem and then directs the media to incessantly focus on it without recourse. The problem could be anything – a war, a financial collapse, a rash of child abductions, or a terrorist attack. The power of the media can create the false perception that a big problem exists, even if it doesn’t … Once you have created this problem you make sure that an individual, a group or an aspect of society is blamed. This then rallies the population behind the desperate lunge for a solution to the problem. ‘Something must be done!’ they cry in unison. The people that created the problem in the first place then come back in and offer the solution that the people demand. Remember – the people screaming for a solution do not know that the problem was artificially created in the first place. The solution to the problem is always a further curtailment of freedom and an advancement of one or more aspects of the New World Order agenda – whether that is geopolitical expansion, new laws or the implantation of new societal worldviews.” (Paul Joseph Watson, Order Out of Chaos, pg. 13.)





BTW whatever happened to Ebola? Baaaaaahhh.
 
Well... Vox is a left wing source you're right. But your own source identifies for Central American countries left double digits un vaccinated, yet you can track down one person you claim infected "382 Amish Ohioans" but you won't admit that one Gutemalan could do the same, and given you don't know what these South American illegals were vaccinated with or if any or all of the were vaccinated at all is all the proof I need.

You're not interested in facts you interested in spreading your left wing ideologue narrative. I can get that pretty much anywhere on DP so unless you want to suddenly get interested in facts, there's nothing but repetition on my part. Have fun in ultra-partisan land!
Quick Google search shows both left and right wing sources reporting pretty much the same thing. Glenn Becks link is awesome though. The Measles outbreak is a hoax meant to convince people to 'Obey' the government, lol.
 
100 cases of measles in a population of 400 million, now the mandatory vaccines are called for.... Problem Reaction Solution. First a problem is created and designed to elicit a certain reaction out of the public. Then the people demand something be done about the problem and willingly accept the pre-planned New World Order solution; a solution that always involves actions or legislation that never would have passed under normal circumstances.

“It works like this – the manipulating body covertly creates a problem and then directs the media to incessantly focus on it without recourse. The problem could be anything – a war, a financial collapse, a rash of child abductions, or a terrorist attack. The power of the media can create the false perception that a big problem exists, even if it doesn’t … Once you have created this problem you make sure that an individual, a group or an aspect of society is blamed. This then rallies the population behind the desperate lunge for a solution to the problem. ‘Something must be done!’ they cry in unison. The people that created the problem in the first place then come back in and offer the solution that the people demand. Remember – the people screaming for a solution do not know that the problem was artificially created in the first place. The solution to the problem is always a further curtailment of freedom and an advancement of one or more aspects of the New World Order agenda – whether that is geopolitical expansion, new laws or the implantation of new societal worldviews.” (Paul Joseph Watson, Order Out of Chaos, pg. 13.)





BTW whatever happened to Ebola? Baaaaaahhh.

It was amazing to see the out of control fear that swept through my office during the whole "Ebola crisis" where we, as a country, had one death.

BTW, using stats from 3rd world countries to dictate policy in an industrialized nation is foolish.
 
So your approach to this debate when you can't win an argument is to tell the offending poster to leave?

If my child were not vaccinated, he would not present a problem to other children, who were vaccinated because they would be protected from measles. Isn't that a fair assumption?

Not being vaccinated is not a problem because the child just like in my day before the vaccination would merely get the disease and receive a natural immunity to it. What is the problem over measles? You folks act like it's the end of the world.

There is a reason the measles vaccine was developed. Receiving "a natural immunity" is not without risks.

Measles are highly contagious:
If other people breathe the contaminated air or touch the infected surface, then touch their eyes, noses, or mouths, they can become infected. Measles is so contagious that if one person has it, 90% of the people close to that person who are not immune will also become infected.

Infected people can spread measles to others from four days before to four days after the rash appears.

Complications:
Ear infections occur in about one out of every 10 children with measles and can result in permanent hearing loss.
Some people may suffer from severe complications, such as pneumonia (infection of the lungs) and encephalitis (swelling of the brain). They may need to be hospitalized and could die.

As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or mentally retarded.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.

Measles may cause pregnant woman to give birth prematurely, or have a low-birth-weight baby.

http://www.cdc.gov/measles/about/transmission.html

Also, babies don't receive their first measles vaccination until 12 months. They can at 6 months if they are going out of the country. So your child, not be vaccinated poses a risk to most infants under a year or those people with compromised immune systems. Like children undergoing chemo, or those on immunosuppressant drugs for other reasons. And that why some of us are more than a little concerned.
 
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It was amazing to see the out of control fear that swept through my office during the whole "Ebola crisis" where we, as a country, had one death.

BTW, using stats from 3rd world countries to dictate policy in an industrialized nation is foolish.




It's funny because it backfired on them, it got so hysterical they thought the admin was "doing nothing about it" and "letting ebola paitents in", they even had to name an "ebola czar"?

In this NATIONAL CRISIS of ebola, what happened to him?



This is more of the same ****. That said, I support vaccines due to the HARM principle of libertarianism,.

Harm principle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's a tough one though and I am on the border.
 
There is a reason the measles vaccine was developed. Receiving "a natural immunity" is not without risks.

Measles are highly contagious:


Complications:


Also, babies don't receive their first measles vaccination until 12 months. They can at 6 months if they are going out of the country. So your child, not be vaccinated poses a risk to most infants under a year or those people with compromised immune systems. Like children undergoing chemo, or those on immunosuppressant drugs for other reasons. And that why some of us are more than a little concerned.




wait, aren't we all mostly vaccinated? select few kooks?


Is it more scary or less scary than ebola?
 
The anti vaccination crowd don't care unless it lands directly on their doorstep and their families contract the disease. **** everybody else.
 
I'm asking about SPECIFIC countries which makes up the majority of illegals who crossed the Southern US border in 2013-2014.

Were those 3 from the America's vaccinated in Brazil, Chile and Canada or some other country? What were they vaccinated against and when? What boosters were they given and when?

My point is your postion is based on missing information and rhetoric. You don't have facts - you think you do, but you don't. Getting to the bottom of this issue regarding if illegals have spread disease into the US means getting the information I've already asked about. That information may or may not be available but it's what is necessary and I'm not going to make some bs judgement call based on liberal or conservative talking points created for the ignorant to parrot. That's my point.

What's my position? I don't have any idea what you think it is, but among other points, someone made a claim that it was dirty illegal diseased children who have caused the recent resurgence. I've posted data, including the CDC report, that indicates he's wrong. I've requested, but seen NOTHING to indicate these illegal ARE the source. You have none, the person I responded to presented none.

So the FACTS I have do not support the utterly baseless claim by the poster that illegals are the source, and the data you're distracting us all with wouldn't answer that question anyway. The vaccination rates could be 99.9999999% for the actual people crossing the border, and there would still be maybe 5-15% for whom the vaccination didn't work, and it could be they who got sick and spread it here. Or the vaccination rate could be 0%, and unless one of the illegals was ground zero, that fact STILL doesn't help us figure out the cause of the recent outbreak.

But if you want to convince us with facts, CDC has records going back a ways that identifies the country of origin. If you want to assert Central America is the source, more specifically illegals, then start looking over CDC reports and find something to support your claim. I did the work for you on one report - none from the countries you're so concerned about. But if you want to dig through more, have at it and get back to us.

Until then, this appears to be a giant exercise in manufacturing red herrings. I can't for the life of me grasp what point you're trying to make in the context of this discussion. Guatemala has a vaccination rate of XX%. What am I supposed to conclude from that data? It's roughly that of the U.S. and France is one conclusion. Now what? We need to secure our borders? Not the subject of this thread. So I'm at a loss.

BTW, you asked me for the vaccination records of three individuals from Brazil, Canada and Chile. Obviously I don't have that info, but they're not from your countries of concern, so what would it add to this discussion if I could locate those individuals' health records going back to their birth? It's another red herring.
 
What's my position? I don't have any idea what you think it is, but among other points, someone made a claim that it was dirty illegal diseased children who have caused the recent resurgence. I've posted data, including the CDC report, that indicates he's wrong. I've requested, but seen NOTHING to indicate these illegal ARE the source. You have none, the person I responded to presented none.

You posted:

JasperL said:
The fact is you've cited nothing to indicate that the measles or any other outbreak can be traced to the invasion of dirty, diseased illegal children.

You're pro vaccine first. (You liked Post #797)
You're also claiming that Migrants weren't carrying disease (Your post #787)

You say those claiming migrants carried disease into the US was wrong - and you are wrong because you do not have the data to support that as fact. That may be your OPINION, but that's not a fact. You're position on this subject isn't particularly difficult to figure out.

So the FACTS I have do not support the utterly baseless claim by the poster that illegals are the source, and the data you're distracting us all with wouldn't answer that question anyway. The vaccination rates could be 99.9999999% for the actual people crossing the border, and there would still be maybe 5-15% for whom the vaccination didn't work, and it could be they who got sick and spread it here. Or the vaccination rate could be 0%, and unless one of the illegals was ground zero, that fact STILL doesn't help us figure out the cause of the recent outbreak.
According to Henry - 1 Amish Missionary caused 300+ cases of measles in his VOX article. So the vaccination rate missing just 1 person out of a billion to his point, is disastrous. Do you disagree?


But if you want to convince us with facts, CDC has records going back a ways that identifies the country of origin. If you want to assert Central America is the source, more specifically illegals, then start looking over CDC reports and find something to support your claim. I did the work for you on one report - none from the countries you're so concerned about. But if you want to dig through more, have at it and get back to us.
I'm asserting it's possible. You assert it's wrong. The CDC amazingly, isn't tracking illegal immigrants who have been dispersed throughout the US at the governments behest for disease. I wonder why that is?


Until then, this appears to be a giant exercise in manufacturing red herrings. I can't for the life of me grasp what point you're trying to make in the context of this discussion. Guatemala has a vaccination rate of XX%. What am I supposed to conclude from that data? It's roughly that of the U.S. and France is one conclusion. Now what? We need to secure our borders? Not the subject of this thread. So I'm at a loss.
You're loss is you formed an opinion, stated it as fact - when you don't have the facts. That's the point, that's why you're at a loss. I say it's possible given the facts we have, and given the facts we do not have. You say it's impossible. :shrug:


BTW, you asked me for the vaccination records of three individuals from Brazil, Canada and Chile. Obviously I don't have that info, but they're not from your countries of concern, so what would it add to this discussion if I could locate those individuals' health records going back to their birth? It's another red herring.
You also don't have the vaccination information for Guatemala, El Salvador or Honduras but you're sure those illegals cannot be spreading disease. A truly amazing super power you have there.
 
wait, aren't we all mostly vaccinated? select few kooks?


Is it more scary or less scary than ebola?

The number of those choosing not to inoculate their children has been increasing. Measles was considered eliminated in 2000. But yet here we are certainly due in part to the now discredited Lancet Journal article linking MMR immunizations to Autism, first published in 1998. The Lancet retracts Andrew Wakefield’s article « Science-Based Medicine

That study was partially withdrawn in 2004 and then fully discredited 2010. Correlation does not always equal causation, but that study and the hysteria it caused, thanks in part to Jenny McCarthy and her campaign which began in 2007 (3 years after the Lancet had partially discredited Wakefield's study):

Another theory, latched onto by Jenny McCarthy, is that the MMR vaccine in particular causes autism. Dr. Andrew Wakefield publicized this supposed link in a famous article in the British medical journal The Lancet. It has since been thoroughly debunked. The Lancet retracted Wakefield’s paper, and the British Medical Journal reported that he “falsified data.” He had his medical license revoked. All of which should have been enough to give the anti-vaxxers pause.

Another theory, latched onto by Jenny McCarthy, is that the MMR vaccine in particular causes autism. Dr. Andrew Wakefield publicized this supposed link in a famous article in the British medical journal The Lancet. It has since been thoroughly debunked. The Lancet retracted Wakefield’s paper, and the British Medical Journal reported that he “falsified data.” He had his medical license revoked. All of which should have been enough to give the anti-vaxxers pause.)

The recent measles outbreaks have taken hold in communities where the population is not mostly vaccinated.

This is a very in-depth article explaining how "herd protection" should and did work, until the anti-vax hysteria has diminished the protection of being "mostly vaccinated". Even at 90-95% of coverage, herd immunity may not protect the population.

Why a few unvaccinated children are an even bigger threat than you think - The Washington Post

The assumption underlying the calculation for herd immunity is that people are mixing randomly, and that vaccination is distributed equally among the population. But that is not true. As the Disneyland measles outbreak has demonstrated, there are communities whose members are much more likely to refuse vaccination than others.

Geographically, vaccination coverage is highly variable on the level of states, counties, and even schools. We’re fairly certain that opinions and sentiments about vaccination can spread in communities, which may in turn lead to polarized communities with respect to vaccination
...

Herd immunity against measles requires that 90 percent to 95 percent of theentire population are immune, whereas vaccination coverage is measured as the percentage vaccinated of the target population – which only includes people who are eligible for vaccination. This means that to achieve 95 percent immunity in the population for measles, vaccination coverage needs to be higher than 95 percent. This is the scientific argument for a public health policy that aims at 100 percent vaccination coverage.

Ebola is less scary in that it is not nearly as communicable as measles are.
Although the outbreak in West Africa is increasing exponentially, Ebola is not as contagious as many other infectious diseases. Transmission requires direct contact with infected body fluids. Measles, influenza, and pertussis (whooping cough), on the other hand, are spread by respiratory secretions. They are much more explosive because transmission does not require direct contact with an infected person.

Why you should worry less about Ebola and more about measles

A person with Ebola will infect 1.5 to 2.2 people (on average) whereas a person with measles will infect 12 to 18 people. This is because Ebola is not transmissible until symptoms appear. Measles can be communicated for several days before any symptoms are visible.

So yeah, Ebola is scary because if you get it, the chances are very great you'll die unless you catch it early, but you are much less likely to get it due to how it is transmitted.
 
You posted:



You're pro vaccine first. (You liked Post #797)
You're also claiming that Migrants weren't carrying disease (Your post #787)

You say those claiming migrants carried disease into the US was wrong - and you are wrong because you do not have the data to support that as fact. That may be your OPINION, but that's not a fact. You're position on this subject isn't particularly difficult to figure out.

According to Henry - 1 Amish Missionary caused 300+ cases of measles in his VOX article. So the vaccination rate missing just 1 person out of a billion to his point, is disastrous. Do you disagree?


I'm asserting it's possible. You assert it's wrong. The CDC amazingly, isn't tracking illegal immigrants who have been dispersed throughout the US at the governments behest for disease. I wonder why that is?


You're loss is you formed an opinion, stated it as fact - when you don't have the facts. That's the point, that's why you're at a loss. I say it's possible given the facts we have, and given the facts we do not have. You say it's impossible. :shrug:


You also don't have the vaccination information for Guatemala, El Salvador or Honduras but you're sure those illegals cannot be spreading disease. A truly amazing super power you have there.
Isn't it logical to go with what the professionals do know pertaining to Ohio rather than red herring stuff that there is no evidence for. I get it that illegal immigration bothers you, and that this measles thing could be a useful tool to help prop up your position, but come on now..
 
The anti vaccination crowd don't care unless it lands directly on their doorstep and their families contract the disease. **** everybody else.

The anti-vaccine crowd isn't afraid of getting chickenpox and measles. chance you have of getting very ill or dying from measles is minuscule.
 
The number of those choosing not to inoculate their children has been increasing. Measles was considered eliminated in 2000. But yet here we are certainly due in part to the now discredited Lancet Journal article linking MMR immunizations to Autism, first published in 1998. The Lancet retracts Andrew Wakefield’s article « Science-Based Medicine

That study was partially withdrawn in 2004 and then fully discredited 2010. Correlation does not always equal causation, but that study and the hysteria it caused, thanks in part to Jenny McCarthy and her campaign which began in 2007 (3 years after the Lancet had partially discredited Wakefield's study):

Another theory, latched onto by Jenny McCarthy, is that the MMR vaccine in particular causes autism. Dr. Andrew Wakefield publicized this supposed link in a famous article in the British medical journal The Lancet. It has since been thoroughly debunked. The Lancet retracted Wakefield’s paper, and the British Medical Journal reported that he “falsified data.” He had his medical license revoked. All of which should have been enough to give the anti-vaxxers pause.


I know all of this. Why it doesn't give them pause is actually simple, the development of symptoms coincides with most vaccine schedules, unrelated, but to the untrained eye it looks the same.


I don't think we are anywhere close to threatening herd immunity with these few people thought that to can change.


The recent measles outbreaks have taken hold in communities where the population is not mostly vaccinated.


203 cases in a population of how many? cynically I think we are going to have to see a small outbreak among the unvaccinated to get them to change their minds.


This is a very in-depth article explaining how "herd protection" should and did work, until the anti-vax hysteria has diminished the protection of being "mostly vaccinated". Even at 90-95% of coverage, herd immunity may not protect the population.

We are still at over 99% coverage and of course, and 90-94% is the magic number for measles. Last year there were 655 cases nationwide. I think in this case, media overhysteria may do some good. we will see.

Why a few unvaccinated children are an even bigger threat than you think - The Washington Post



Ebola is less scary in that it is not nearly as communicable as measles are.


Why you should worry less about Ebola and more about measles

A person with Ebola will infect 1.5 to 2.2 people (on average) whereas a person with measles will infect 12 to 18 people. This is because Ebola is not transmissible until symptoms appear. Measles can be communicated for several days before any symptoms are visible.

So yeah, Ebola is scary because if you get it, the chances are very great you'll die unless you catch it early, but you are much less likely to get it due to how it is transmitted.


My point in ebola was the overhype about it and the simple disappearance of hysteria. we are now on measles.
 
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