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Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

Cardinal said:
Why are you focusing on vaccines as cause instead of, well, anything else at all?
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I am not. I am countering those that defiantly and ignorantly refuse to accept the possibility that it might, just might, be vaccines...

It could be diet. It could be solar flares. It could be vaccines. The fact that they do not know is a real issue.

Why are you ignoring this fact and focusing on anything else at all and not on vaccines?
 
Bodhisattva said:
I never claimed that autism was caused by vaccines... although SIDS and ADHD might be. Since nobody knows either way it is a reasonable question.
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It's a dangerous question because it puts doubt into the safety of vaccines where none should exist.
 
Cardinal said:
Based on...?
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On the amount that they do not know, the under reporting, the refusal to admit that vaccines might contribute... dude, what in the ****... :roll:
 
Amadeus said:
It's a dangerous question because it puts doubt into the safety of vaccines where none should exist.
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Read some of the thread and my comments before making such an ignorant statement...
 
Cardinal said:
If your position is more nuanced than being an antivaxxer then let's hear it. I don't feel like playing twenty questions.
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I clearly and directly told you already... if that was not clear enough for you then think whatever the hell you want...

I don't feel like repeating myself so that the slower posters can eventually figure it out.
 
CMPancake said:
Certainly.

Vaccine Allergy: A Closer Look - Allergy Center - Everyday Health
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Sorry that didn't answer my question. I asked for a list of alternative measles vaccines. All your link stated was:
  • Using an alternative form of the vaccine that you are not allergic to

What are the alternative forms.... the list of alternative forms please for measles.


CMPancake said:
My point is not vaccinating your children is a riskier gamble than vaccinating them. As shown with the stats you provided that is in fact the case. If you don't want to risk your children's life, vaccinate them. It's really just as simple as that.
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I mostly agree, and in some cases I disagree. The lack of a measles vaccine sure, but not when a doctor tells me my child will go into anaphalactic shock due to a severe allergy to neomycin for example.

I'm waiting for you to admit there are legitimate exceptions. Are you at least willing to do that?


CMPancake said:
It's a choice sure, but it is a choice that has now showing to be wildly fatal and harmful to society at large. Look at the recent outbreak in the OP. Look at all the outbreaks in the past few years of diseases that we have vaccines for. Honestly you could turn this argument around on anything related to child care.
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Well if the vast majority of people get vaccinated like you say - only the ones who don't get vaccinated have to worry. Isn't it up to them if they want to take that risk or not... or is should it be forced upon them for the "common good"?
 
CMPancake said:
Oh man, I guess I really should apologize to John Doe. After all I'm sure he's feelings are going to get hurt when John finds out he isn't a real person.
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...and after making the challenge/insult? CMP wusses out... :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
Read some of the thread and my comments before making such an ignorant statement...
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Based on your response to Cardinal, it looks like you have your opinion and an empty sack to support your position.
 
Ockham said:
Well if the vast majority of people get vaccinated like you say - only the ones who don't get vaccinated have to worry. Isn't it up to them if they want to take that risk or not... or is should it be forced upon them for the "common good"?
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You know... at the end of the day it is a free country. The world isn't safe. On top of that... **** happens. Deal with it people. Kids have a greater risk of getting hurt on the monkey bars than they do of non-vaccinated children. Get the **** over it.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I am not. I am countering those that defiantly and ignorantly refuse to accept the possibility that it might, just might, be vaccines...

It could be diet. It could be solar flares. It could be vaccines. The fact that they do not know is a real issue.

Why are you ignoring this fact and focusing on anything else at all and not on vaccines?
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Holy ****, you have nothing at all. Why do you find it so acceptable to embarrass yourself like this?
 
Amadeus said:
Based on your response to Cardinal, it looks like you have your opinion and an empty sack to support your position.
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What part, specifically, about under reporting (for starters) is opinionated and empty?

Then what about the non-understanding of what causes SIDS is opinionated? ADHD?

One day that answer might clearly show that vaccines were as safe as some claim and I will be fine with that.

If you want to fall back on pathetic generalizations I certainly can't stop you no matter how foolish it might be.

Have you had any experience with an adverse effect, doctors during one or their reactions to vaccines or to under/non reporting? I have.
 
Cardinal said:
Holy ****, you have nothing at all. Why do you find it so acceptable to embarrass yourself like this?
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I do understand that my balanced points of view often confuse people, hell, probably scares the **** out of many... including you.

Not sure why but I had you listed as a pretty smart guy... need to re-evaluate my list.
 
What is weird is that it is the Liberals blindly defending vaccines here... In the area where we had our kids it was very liberal and those were the ones staunchly against vaccines... :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
What part, specifically, about under reporting (for starters) is opinionated and empty?
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How do you quantify or gauge under-reporting, specifically?

Then what about the non-understanding of what causes SIDS is opinionated? ADHD?
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Lack of evidence is not evidence.

One day that answer might clearly show that vaccines were as safe as some claim and I will be fine with that.
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How would they go about doing this?

If you want to fall back on pathetic generalizations I certainly can't stop you no matter how foolish it might be.
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What is the scientific theory under which a vaccine might cause ADHD or SIDS? Break it down for me.

Have you had any experience with an adverse effect, doctors during one or their reactions to vaccines or to under/non reporting? I have.
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What adverse effects have you had from under/non-reporting? List them.
 
Bodhisattva said:
I do understand that my balanced points of view often confuse people, hell, probably scares the **** out of many... including you.

Not sure why but I had you listed as a pretty smart guy... need to re-evaluate my list.
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You scare me, Bodhisattva, but less because of your "balanced points of view" and more for the reason that an ever increasing population in my country seems to be comprised of Birthers, Truthers, anti-global warming nuts, alien abductees, creationists and anti-vaxxers.
 
Bodhisattva said:
What is weird is that it is the Liberals blindly defending vaccines here... In the area where we had our kids it was very liberal and those were the ones staunchly against vaccines... :lol:
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Cardinal said:
You scare me, Bodhisattva, but less because of your "balanced points of view" and more for the reason : anti-vaxxers.
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What a truly pathetic conclusion...
 
Cardinal said:
To our non-American members: does your country seem to be entirely overrun by anti-science people too, or is that just us?
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If my unscientific observations here, on Facebook, and in so-called real life are any indication, we're not overrun by them, they're just vocal.
 
Now that this debate has been raging for a couple weeks (everywhere, not just here), the part that is pissing me off more than anything else is the dismissal of the overwhelming evidence regarding vaccines because they're not 100%.

Excuse me? What planet do you come from that anything is 100%? (Excepting death, in general) Really, that's so far out there it's not even a valid counter-argument.

Seat belts aren't 100% effective, but they greatly improve your odds. Wearing a hard hat in a construction area isn't 100% effective, but it improves your odds. Condoms aren't 100% effective, but they improve your odds.

Same with vaccines. No, they're not 100% effective, but your odds against getting said disease are greatly better than if you don't get the vaccine.

With every example I noted here, we can all say we've heard at least one anecdotal story where it didn't save a person, or maybe even made it worse. Those are exceptions to the rule, not the rule itself. You're not guaranteed to get only the good stuff in life, so a smart person goes with the odds... especially when they're so overwhelming as is the case with vaccines.
 
Cephus said:
Vaccinations are not perfect, they do not always protect you from the disease. This year's flu vaccines were a perfect example, they didn't work on most of the flu strains that we ended up with this year. Likewise, there are people who are medically unable to have vaccinations due to a compromised immune system. Those people are directly harmed by the asshats who won't vaccinate their kids. But sure, you can go ahead and assume that I just mindlessly hate people if that turns you on. :roll:
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And don't forget - the measles vaccine came in 1963. I was born in 1962, and have no idea if I got the vaccine or not; I know I never had measles. CDC is recommending that even those adults who did get vaccinated in the 1960s get re-vaccinated. I only know that because I've been reading up on the current measles outbreak in California. I'll get vaccinated now. But I could easily have gotten measles from unvaccinated kids before I get the vaccine. How many people aren't reading the CDC details, who are assuming their 1960s vaccines are sufficient? They are at risk.

Kids need to be vaccinated. period. I know you agree; I can't believe there are people who don't.
 
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