• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Vaccine Critics Turn Defensive Over Measles [W:1210]

paddymcdougall said:
And don't forget - the measles vaccine came in 1963. I was born in 1962, and have no idea if I got the vaccine or not; I know I never had measles. CDC is recommending that even those adults who did get vaccinated in the 1960s get re-vaccinated. I only know that because I've been reading up on the current measles outbreak in California. I'll get vaccinated now. But I could easily have gotten measles from unvaccinated kids before I get the vaccine. How many people aren't reading the CDC details, who are assuming their 1960s vaccines are sufficient? They are at risk.

Kids need to be vaccinated. period. I know you agree; I can't believe there are people who don't.
Click to expand...

And those people are complete and total idiots who have no business breeding. Every kid needs to be vaccinated regardless of the wishes of their parents.
 
Amadeus said:
How do you quantify or gauge under-reporting, specifically?
Click to expand...

I already listed, from VAERS, the unreliability of current statistics due to under/non reporting of vaccine adverse reactions...

Lack of evidence is not evidence.
Click to expand...

Nobody said it was... but if rates of SIDS and ADHD are increasing as vaccinations are becoming more common practice then there might be a correlation. That is all I stated.

How would they go about doing this?
Click to expand...

By having a better reporting system, for starters.

What is the scientific theory under which a vaccine might cause ADHD or SIDS? Break it down for me.
Click to expand...

Simple logic will tell you that if we do not know the cause, if adverse reactions are not reported, if reports are incomplete or incorrect and if conclusions can not be drawn for the reported data then the conclusions is incomplete.

VAERS is a passive reporting system, meaning that reports about adverse events are not automatically collected, but require a report to be filed to VAERS. VAERS reports can be submitted voluntarily by anyone, including healthcare providers, patients, or family members. Reports vary in quality and completeness. They often lack details and sometimes can have information that contains errors.

"Underreporting" is one of the main limitations of passive surveillance systems, including VAERS. The term, underreporting refers to the fact that VAERS receives reports for only a small fraction of actual adverse events. The degree of underreporting varies widely.

https://vaers.hhs.gov/data/index

What adverse effects have you had from under/non-reporting? List them.
Click to expand...

It was my daughter.

Rash, Fever, joint pain, febrile seizures, swollen lymph glands which became a sub-mandibular abscess and was kept in both ICU and post-op for four days after emergency surgery.
 
CMPancake said:
Using the statistics that you provided us from the CDC we can see that 15,684 have claimed to have been harmed or had someone die to vaccines. Out of those 15,684, 3,895 of them were compensated by the CDC for their claim. Let's say that entire 24% was right and the vaccines did more harm than good. In the same information you provided us it shows that over 2,236,678,735 vaccines were dolled out to the public. Now if we assume that the 2,236,678,735 vaccines were safe that would barely make 1% of the vaccines dangerous. Now I don't know the exact stat for this claim, but I think you have a lot better luck winning the lottery than for a vaccine to kill you.




Most parents before vaccinations didn't have much choice in their children dying of polio either. you can fight and argue with the idea that vaccinations are 'big government' all you like. It's still wildly safer than allowing for diseases to run rampant through the Country once again.



Already addressed this above.
Click to expand...


Yeah. Measles, mumps, rubella, polio -much more likely to kill their kids than the vaccine.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Kids need to be vaccinated. period. I know you agree; I can't believe there are people who don't.
Click to expand...

In general... yes. In the end though it should be a family choice and not a mandate. This is not the same as a seat belt or child helmet.
 
radcen said:
Now that this debate has been raging for a couple weeks (everywhere, not just here), the part that is pissing me off more than anything else is the dismissal of the overwhelming evidence regarding vaccines because they're not 100%.

Excuse me? What planet do you come from that anything is 100%? (Excepting death, in general) Really, that's so far out there it's not even a valid counter-argument.

Seat belts aren't 100% effective, but they greatly improve your odds. Wearing a hard hat in a construction area isn't 100% effective, but it improves your odds. Condoms aren't 100% effective, but they improve your odds.

Same with vaccines. No, they're not 100% effective, but your odds against getting said disease are greatly better than if you don't get the vaccine.

With every example I noted here, we can all say we've heard at least one anecdotal story where it didn't save a person, or maybe even made it worse. Those are exceptions to the rule, not the rule itself. You're not guaranteed to get only the good stuff in life, so a smart person goes with the odds... especially when they're so overwhelming as is the case with vaccines.
Click to expand...

Or how every nearly every smoker I've met has cited that one guy who lived to a hundred and smoked eight packs of cigarettes a day, or the failing musician who optimistically pointed out that Jimi Hendrix received no music education, both forgetting that it's the consensus that matters, not the outliers.
 
Cephus said:
And those people are complete and total idiots who have no business breeding. Every kid needs to be vaccinated regardless of the wishes of their parents.
Click to expand...

If that is true then what of alcoholics, drug users, religious fanatics?
 
brothern said:
12720151200161.jpg
Click to expand...

That is funny and it also happens to describe the entire anti-vax bunch.
 
radcen said:
Now that this debate has been raging for a couple weeks (everywhere, not just here),
Click to expand...

Why? Has there been a big outbreak?
 
Cardinal said:
Or how every nearly every smoker I've met has cited that one guy who lived to a hundred and smoked eight packs of cigarettes a day, or the failing musician who optimistically pointed out that Jimi Hendrix received no music education, both forgetting that it's the consensus that matters, not the outliers.
Click to expand...
Smoking, good example. Or the guy who ate biscuits and gravy and chicken fried steak for 98 years.

Probably the same guy... lol.
 
My opinion -people who don't vaccinate their kids are potentially murdering other kids or adults.

Not acceptable.

All kids (except those with compromised immune systems, such as kids with cancer) need to be vaccinated.

And by the way - us adults should all check into our status as well. I got a TDAP booster last year; the TDAP vaccine doesn't give life-long immunity. I'll be getting MMR assuming my doctor agrees next time I go in.
 
It should be a parent's choice whether or not to vaccinate their child. And should they choose not to, they should probably be investigated by CPS. Something fishy going on in that household.
 
Ockham said:
Once we as a society stop questioning and stop being skeptics about what our government or healthcare providers or doctors for that matter, tell us we need, we become sheep. You're absolutely right there are some who cannot have some vaccines due to medical or allergic reasons - there are also some who want to know exactly what is being injected into them, and why it's so absolutely imperative, as well as questioning what it is and what effects it has on us.
Click to expand...

Great. Have questions? Look at the evidence.

But that's not what antivaxxers do.
 
Cardinal said:
See: thread title.
Click to expand...

My girls are not vaccinated though I would like them to be, even though one had that adverse reaction but my ex-wife is 100% opposed to them and since we are divorced with Court Orders I am stuck. That said, my girls are fine and there is a pretty large population here that is not vaccinated.
 
Amadeus said:
It should be a parent's choice whether or not to vaccinate their child. And should they choose not to, they should probably be investigated by CPS. Something fishy going on in that household.
Click to expand...

:lol: Other than not vaccinating I bet those parents are some of the best parents on the entire planet, having known so many myself. But that was funny... :lol:
 
Deuce said:
Uhh, yes.
Click to expand...

Seems like there is one every year... yet how many are dying and how many were vaccinated and still got it? Interesting questions...
 
Deuce said:
Great. Have questions? Look at the evidence.

But that's not what antivaxxers do.
Click to expand...

You would be surprised... but then you would have to know some first, right? ;)
 
Bodhisattva said:
Many are a combination of those...
Click to expand...

Well yeah, when one of their reasons for being against vaccination is so completely refuted for them that there is no way they could possibly deny it, they just jump over the to next reason. For example, when the Naturalist Nancy has her views challenged sufficiently enough, she becomes Hygienic Helen.

The only only two they left out were:

Liberty Larry who believes he is exercising his freedom by not vaccinating his kids (no better way of making a political statement than risking your kids health to do so).

Fundamentalist Fred who believes vaccinating his kids against diseases like Hepatitis and HPV only gives them a license to fornicate and become sodomites and harlots.
 
paddymcdougall said:
My opinion -people who don't vaccinate their kids are potentially murdering other kids or adults.

Not acceptable.
Click to expand...

When we withheld vaccinations one of the primary reasons was because we wanted our children to contract a disease so that they could specifically spread it to kill people...

... how did you figure out our creative plan? Was it on CSI?
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Well yeah, when one of their reasons for being against vaccination is so completely refuted for them that there is no way they could possibly deny it, they just jump over the to next reason. For example, when the Naturalist Nancy has her views challenged sufficiently enough, she becomes Hygienic Helen.

The only only two they left out were:

Liberty Larry who believes he is exercising his freedom by not vaccinating his kids (no better way of making a political statement than risking your kids health to do so).

Fundamentalist Fred who believes vaccinating his kids against diseases like Hepatitis and HPV only gives them a license to fornicate and become sodomites and harlots.
Click to expand...

Or that because there isn't mandatory and precautionary testing that takes place prior to vaccinations you might potentially be injecting your child with harmful and deadly chemicals.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Or that because there isn't mandatory and precautionary testing that takes place prior to vaccinations you might potentially be injecting your child with harmful and deadly chemicals.
Click to expand...

Right, those fall into the conspiracy bunch. They don't trust the CDC, WHO, or NIH when they all say that the vaccines in CDC recommended vaccination schedules are among the safest medical procedures in use today and are an order of magnitude safer than even most over the counter medications.
 
I Don’t Vaccinate My Child Because It’s My Right To Decide What Eliminated Diseases Come Roaring Back


The decision to cause a full-blown, multi-state pandemic of a virus that was effectively eliminated from the national population generations ago is my choice alone, and regardless of your personal convictions, that right should never be taken away from a child’s parent. Never. Say what you will about me, but I’ve read the information out there and weighed every option, so I am confident in my choice to revive a debilitating illness that was long ago declared dead and let it spread like wildfire from school to school, town to town, and state to state, until it reaches every corner of the country. Leaving such a momentous decision to someone you haven’t even met and who doesn’t care about your child personally—now that’s absurd! Maybe I choose to bring back the mumps. Or maybe it’s diphtheria. Or maybe it’s some other potentially fatal disease that can easily pass among those too young or too medically unfit to be vaccinated themselves. But whichever highly communicable and formerly wiped-out disease that I opt to resurrect with a vengeance, it is a highly personal decision that only I and my family have the liberty to make.


You may choose to follow the government-recommended immunization schedule for your child, and that's your decision as a parent. And I might choose to unleash rubella on thousands upon thousands of helpless people, and that's my decision as a parent.

I Don
Click to expand...



God, I love the Onion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom