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Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CAPPI

Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Construction jobs. Yes?

Construction, engineering, architecture, truckers, supervisors, artists, musicians, etc. But yes the good majority of the WPA was construction projects.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

If....big IF, I know....the pipeline created no jobs, what would be your rationale for a foreign corp. using eminent domain against US citizens?

Strengthening US infrastructure and industrial capacity.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Please point to that section.... I must of missed something.

". . . Spin-off jobs are jobs which emerge after the pipeline is complete and oil begins to flow. These include refining, chemical manufacturing, petroleum transportation, and “petroleum dependent manufacturing.” The last of these includes even factories that make use of petroleum even though these factories would use petroleum from elsewhere if the pipeline did not exist. The presumption is that these jobs will increase because more petroleum is available. On one hand, these jobs are better than the construction jobs for the actual project because they are considered permanent, but on the other hand, they are impossible to estimate because so many variable effect the process. . . . "
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

... the "nastiness" was not directed at you.... it was directed at those the continually tout this thing as some type of great piece of economic legislation. Many people have argued that we should build this thing because its going to create all these jobs. Its not. Just build it because it makes sense and stop (again, directed globally) being disingenuous. Sorry, there was no personal intent there. I do think this is a silly issue that people (in general...and, on both sides of the aisle) spend too much time worrying about.

I think it is an excellent infrastructure investment.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Why the hell are you talking about anti growth an anti jobs when keystone is a trivial issue both politically AND economically.

You can try to minimize it if you wish, but it's a powerful election issue.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

If the GOP is still squawking about Keystone XL in 2016 they do not deserve to get reelected to any seats. There are significantly bigger issues than the Keystone, and they should focus on those.

If Keystone XL has not been approved by 2016 then the Repubs will use it and gain quite a bit.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

This all reminds me of the argument we had some years back when the oil companies wanted to drill in the Alaskan tundra....Liberals all had a collective cow, and started in with the usual crap about Caraboo and such, and when that didn't work they said that it wasn't worth it because it would take at least 5 years at the time to see one drop of oil from there....Then the high prices hit, and while america has been paying these high prices, and more for anything delivered, so higher prices for everything, the oil could have been there and helped....Are we really going to listen to these idiots again?
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

". . . Spin-off jobs are jobs which emerge after the pipeline is complete and oil begins to flow. These include refining, chemical manufacturing, petroleum transportation, and “petroleum dependent manufacturing.” The last of these includes even factories that make use of petroleum even though these factories would use petroleum from elsewhere if the pipeline did not exist. The presumption is that these jobs will increase because more petroleum is available. On one hand, these jobs are better than the construction jobs for the actual project because they are considered permanent, but on the other hand, they are impossible to estimate because so many variable effect the process. . . . "

"The estimates are based on the idea that the pipeline will create permanently stable oil prices which will foster overall economic growth. However, there is no indication the pipeline would contribute to oil price stabilization. In fact, other TransCanada studies predict that oil prices in the Midwest will rise because the Keystone XL Pipeline will alleviate an oversupply there."
--The only way the pipeline will create permanent long term employment is that it will contribute to oil prize stabilization, but its not predicted to do so by several other studies and several historical examples...
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

"The estimates are based on the idea that the pipeline will create permanently stable oil prices which will foster overall economic growth. However, there is no indication the pipeline would contribute to oil price stabilization. In fact, other TransCanada studies predict that oil prices in the Midwest will rise because the Keystone XL Pipeline will alleviate an oversupply there."
--The only way the pipeline will create permanent long term employment is that it will contribute to oil prize stabilization, but its not predicted to do so by several other studies and several historical examples...

That's where I disagree. I don't think oil price stabilization matters much in the case of refineries. More volume = more employment. Simple.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

That's where I disagree. I don't think oil price stabilization matters much in the case of refineries. More volume = more employment. Simple.

Well several historical examples prove that to be wrong....
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Risk our country's water system for 50 jobs?

Bernie Sanders dropped a truth bombshell on the Senate.


On the Senate floor, Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) hit the Senate with the blunt truth. The construction of the Keystone XL pipeline is an insane idea.


As the Senate debated a bill that would approve the construction of the Keystone XL pipeline, Sen. Sanders said, “The scientific community is telling us that we have a narrow window of opportunity to address the crisis of climate change and to transform our energy system away from fossil fuels and into energy efficiency and sustainable energy. This legislation would move us in exactly the wrong direction toward not only more dependence on fossil fuels but on some of the dirtiest fossil fuel imaginable. That is insane.”

Sanders also hammered the Republican claim that the pipeline is a jobs program, “To talk about 50 permanent jobs as a ‘jobs program’ is nothing more than a cruel and misleading hoax to workers in this country who want and need decent-paying jobs…If we are serious about a jobs program, let us rebuild our crumbling infrastructure, our roads, bridges, water systems, rail, airports and older schools. Let us create jobs by transforming our energy system away from fossil fuels to energy efficiency, weatherization and sustainable energy. That is a program that will create millions of decent jobs.”

Bernie Sanders is correct. The push to pass Keystone is the kind of crazy that is fueled by special interest money in politics.
Those who support the pipeline have gone to extreme lengths to cover up the true purpose of the project. The United States is nothing more than travel route for Canadian tar sands oil to be exported Asia and other countries. The pipeline isn’t a game changer for U.S. energy independence. In fact, it is the exact opposite. It encourages the reliance on fossil fuels.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/11...te-constructing-keystone-pipeline-insane.html
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

I do not CARE whether the "people of Nebraska" see 'economic benefit.' What I'm discussing is property rights and whether the government should have the power to seize YOUR farm and transfer it to GE if, for example, enough of your neighbors think doing so would benefit them. I don't know why you're deliberately missing the point.



Buffett's not the issue, but nice try.

And you mentioned railroads. Sure, eminent domain is used all the time for such projects, roads, bridges, power lines. In fact my grandfather's old rural 10 acre home place had a major power line built right through the middle of it - ruined it for purposes of anyone putting another home there. A nice man met with my mother, said here's the check, we asked what our options were, he said "None - you can sue but you'll lose."

But the public benefit or use of a railroad or road or bridge or that power line is obvious and uncontroversial. Other than some lease payments, I'm not seeing the public benefit to Nebraska from a pipeline transporting Canadian oil to Texas refineries.

I understand completely and that is a concern of mine too.

I understand the public benefit when roads, bridges, railroads and power lines are being built but pipelines for another country is I feel misuse of eminent domain.

When my mother was a child , the state decided to build a highway through their farmland.
The house , barn , creamery, and other building were on one side of the highway and the grazing/farmland was on the other side of the highway. They had to sell most of those dairy cows and give up the creamery business because taking the cows across the highway to graze during the day and them bringing them in the evening to milk became too risky for them and the cows.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

You agree that the supreme court's eminent domain rulings are "the darkest hours in the history of this country's Supreme Court"?
Then why are you defending this pipeline's use of eminent domain in your previous post?
You are correct on the SC's liberal court members' support of eminent domain in recent rulings.

Apples and oranges. In Kelo, the city took the land away from the owner so a private company could build a project. In other words, the owner would lose use of the land permanently.

The ranchers will retain use of their land after the pipeline is built. They are free to continue grazing cattle or growing crops over the pipe. NO loss of land use.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

And I'm on the side of that one guy who doesn't want to move.

Well, the people in Alabama agree with you. They got to build a billion dollar plant, employ thousands of people in high paying automotive jobs, and the economy took in millions of dollars in tax benefits.

Because of that one guy, Kentucky got zip from this project.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Apples and oranges. In Kelo, the city took the land away from the owner so a private company could build a project. In other words, the owner would lose use of the land permanently.

The ranchers will retain use of their land after the pipeline is built. They are free to continue grazing cattle or growing crops over the pipe. NO loss of land use.

There is loss of land use - landowners can't do anything with the land along that 50 or 100 foot easement. Plus there is that little issue of having a pipeline carrying toxic materials across your land.

And if they can "just" acquire permanent easements across your property, they can seize the same property. The only reason Keystone isn't buying the property outright is an easement is cheaper.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Construction, engineering, architecture, truckers, supervisors, artists, musicians, etc. But yes the good majority of the WPA was construction projects.

Which proves the, "temporary job", argument is bull corn.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

There is loss of land use - landowners can't do anything with the land along that 50 or 100 foot easement. Plus there is that little issue of having a pipeline carrying toxic materials across your land.

And if they can "just" acquire permanent easements across your property, they can seize the same property. The only reason Keystone isn't buying the property outright is an easement is cheaper.

You are embarrassing yourself. I encourage you to read up on the subject before you dig yourself in deeper.

The land is immediately usable after the pipeline is laid. The only restrictions are no ponds and no permanent structures on the easement.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

That he is. How do some of these people ever get elected?

A very Liberal district, the same as Pelosi.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

You are embarrassing yourself. I encourage you to read up on the subject before you dig yourself in deeper.

The land is immediately usable after the pipeline is laid. The only restrictions are no ponds and no permanent structures on the easement.

You're the one embarrassing himself. Those "only" restrictions ARE A "LOSS OF LAND USE". It's why Keystone is paying landowners for the easement. In some cases mid six figures at least. Sheesh. If you had a stand of trees, they've been bulldozed and will stay bulldozed. In 5 years if they want, they can dig anywhere along that easement and lay more pipes. They can enter your property at any time, bring their trucks through your planted fields if they need to. Etc.

And a pipeline is perfectly safe like drilling in the Gulf a mile deep is safe. it's not WHETHER but when and where the pipeline will fail and dump a bunch of hazardous materials onto someone's land. It's a 36 inch line, so the spill can be catastrophic. If it's near a water supply, you're f'd.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

You're the one embarrassing himself. Those "only" restrictions ARE A "LOSS OF LAND USE". It's why Keystone is paying landowners for the easement. In some cases mid six figures at least. Sheesh. If you had a stand of trees, they've been bulldozed and will stay bulldozed. In 5 years if they want, they can dig anywhere along that easement and lay more pipes. They can enter your property at any time, bring their trucks through your planted fields if they need to. Etc.

And a pipeline is perfectly safe like drilling in the Gulf a mile deep is safe. it's not WHETHER but when and where the pipeline will fail and dump a bunch of hazardous materials onto someone's land. It's a 36 inch line, so the spill can be catastrophic. If it's near a water supply, you're f'd.

Pipelines are the safest means to transport petroleum.
 
Re: Senate passes bill approving Keystone XL oil pipeline Associated Press By DINA CA

Pipelines are the safest means to transport petroleum.

I've heard that thrown around... and I am not saying it's not true, but can you source that?
 
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