Greece debt repayment in full is 'unrealistic', says Syriza

opcorn2:

It is unrealistic to expect Greece to repay its huge debt in full, the chief economics spokesman for the victorious Syriza party has told the BBC.

"Nobody believes that the Greek debt is sustainable," Euclid Tsakalotos said.

The far-left Syriza, which won Sunday's general election, wants to renegotiate Greece's €240bn (£179bn; $270bn) bailout by international lenders.

EU leaders have warned the new Greek government that it must live up to its commitments to the creditors...

But Mr Tsakalotos stressed that it would be "my worst nightmare if the eurozone collapses because Greece falls". "

And if Greece falls and is removed from the eurozone - the eurozone will collapse. We said from the beginning the eurozone is in danger, the euro is in danger, but it isn't in danger from Syriza... it is in danger from the very policies of austerity"....

Meanwhile, EU Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker warned that Greece cannot expect any reduction of its debt commitments.

He said it "is not on the radar" of the commission.

German government spokesman Steffan Seibert stressed it was important for Greece to "take measures so that the economic recovery continues".

Jeroen Dijsselbloem, president of the Eurogroup, said on Monday: "There is very little support for a write-off in Europe."...

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Their new President is such a Socialist Low life. Honestly, there's no other word for it.

One of the first things he did was to go and lay flowers at a WW II Memorial. Apparently the Nazi's executed 200 Greeks and he felt ( for some reason ) he needed to call attention to this.

German banks hold massive amounts of their worthless debt. I'm seeing a connection

Someone should be along shortly to freak out over any and all EU/Euro criticism, citing no sources in defense (because none exist,) but claiming all of our sources are partisan and flat out wrong.

OrphanSlug said:

Someone should be along shortly to freak out over any and all EU/Euro criticism, citing no sources in defense (because none exist,) but claiming all of our sources are partisan and flat out wrong.

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That and the posters who will paint Greece as a victim and claim " austerity " is the root of all evil.

If you don't want to pay a loan back by the terms agreed upon, don't agree to take the loan.

If you are hopelessly in debt, you cut your expenses as best you can so you can get back into the black.

This man condemns fiscal responsibility and campaigned on not paying his debts. Classy fella.

JayDubya said:

If you don't want to pay a loan back by the terms agreed upon, don't agree to take the loan.

If you are hopelessly in debt, you cut your expenses as best you can so you can get back into the black.

This man condemns fiscal responsibility and campaigned on not paying his debts. Classy fella.

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Germany went through the trouble and effort of balancing it's budget some time ago. Let's see how lenient they are with debtor nations who refuse to even pretend to have an interest in doing so.

JayDubya said:

If you don't want to pay a loan back by the terms agreed upon, don't agree to take the loan.

If you are hopelessly in debt, you cut your expenses as best you can so you can get back into the black.

This man condemns fiscal responsibility and campaigned on not paying his debts. Classy fella.

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A one sided take on the issue. Part of fiscal responsibility means not making loans to people who can't pay them back. If you do that, you have to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, which means accepting losses. If you can't do that, don't make loans in the first place.

MildSteel said:

A one sided take on the issue. Part of fiscal responsibility means not making loans to people who can't pay them back. If you do that, you have to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, which means accepting losses. If you can't do that, don't make loans in the first place.

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Lol !!! Now its the creditors fault ??? Whats wrong with you people ?

Nonsense. Utter and complete low information nonsense.

Greece entered into the Union under false pretenses and then hid their debt away from EVERYONE until a new administration took over in 2008

They misrepresented their position and took advantage of that misrepresentation until they couldn't any longer.

Now they're welching. They're irresponsible and arguably criminal acts are threatening the Euro and German banks.

Fenton said:

Lol !!! Now its the creditors fault ??? Whats wrong with you people ?

Nonsense. Utter and complete low information nonsense.

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No, it's what is wrong with you. Do you really want to put forward the notion that financial institutions that make bad loans do not have to accept the consequences for their bad decisions? Some appear to think just that. That is PART of the reason why we had the financial crisis back in 2008. This notion that somehow financial institutions should be shielded from the consequences of their bad decisions is stupid. It has given rise to this "too big to fail" nonsense. Only a moron would put forward such a notion.

MildSteel said:

No, it's what is wrong with you. Do you really want to put forward the notion that financial institutions that make bad loans do not have to accept the consequences for their bad decisions? Some appear to think just that. That is PART of the reason why we had the financial crisis back in 2008. This notion that somehow financial institutions should be shielded from the consequences of their bad decisions is stupid. It has given rise to this "too big to fail" nonsense. Only a moron would put forward such a notion.

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Only a moron would put the blame of the 2008 Financial Crisis at the feet of the lenders

Greece lied, they misrepresented their Financial position for YEARS so they could sell more debt and pay for a unsustainable Socialist " paradise ".

Greece is responsible for their corruption, NOT the Banks and not Germany

Entering into a loan contract with no intention of repaying the principle back is FRAUD.

Fenton said:

Only a moron would put the blame of the 2008 Financial Crisis at the feet of the lenders

Greece lied, they misrepresented their Financial position for YEARS so they could sell more debt and pay for a unsustainable Socialist " paradise ".

Greece is responsible for their corruption, NOT the Banks and not Germany

Entering into a loan contract with no intention of repaying the principle back is FRAUD.

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I'm going to tell you something. It is clear to me that liberals live in an unsustainable egalitarian utopian fantasy. On the other hand conservatives like you live in another fantasy that is essentially dystopian in nature and is based on the moronic idea that somehow giving everything to the elite of an economic oligarchy results in the best outcome for all. When pressed, all you ever seem to be able to say is that it has always been that way.

Realistically speaking, of course people should take responsibility for their actions. But I honestly fail to comprehend how someone could really believe that financial institutions should be shielded from the responsibility of their bad decisions. It's just plain crazy. It's really no point in discussing it.

Here's the type of thing that the untouchable Goldman Sachs engaged in with respect to Greece. Dang!!! Someone really wants to put forward that they bear no responsibility for this type of activity. No wonder the world is in such a mess.

Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis

Wall Street tactics akin to the ones that fostered subprime mortgages in America have worsened the financial crisis shaking Greece and undermining the euro by enabling European governments to hide their mounting debts.

As worries over Greece rattle world markets, records and interviews show that with Wall Street’s help, the nation engaged in a decade-long effort to skirt European debt limits. One deal created by Goldman Sachs helped obscure billions in debt from the budget overseers in Brussels.

Even as the crisis was nearing the flashpoint, banks were searching for ways to help Greece forestall the day of reckoning. In early November — three months before Athens became the epicenter of global financial anxiety — a team from Goldman Sachs arrived in the ancient city with a very modern proposition for a government struggling to pay its bills, according to two people who were briefed on the meeting.

The bankers, led by Goldman’s president, Gary D. Cohn, held out a financing instrument that would have pushed debt from Greece’s health care system far into the future, much as when strapped homeowners take out second mortgages to pay off their credit cards.

It had worked before. In 2001, just after Greece was admitted to Europe’s monetary union, Goldman helped the government quietly borrow billions, people familiar with the transaction said. That deal, hidden from public view because it was treated as a currency trade rather than a loan, helped Athens to meet Europe’s deficit rules while continuing to spend beyond its means.
............

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Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis

This old worn out partisan rhetoric is crap. People need to start discussing things as they are.

MildSteel said:

I'm going to tell you something. It is clear to me that liberals live in an unsustainable egalitarian utopian fantasy. On the other hand conservatives like you live in another fantasy that is essentially dystopian in nature and is based on the moronic idea that somehow giving everything to the elite of an economic oligarchy results in the best outcome for all. When pressed, all you ever seem to be able to say is that it has always been that way.

Realistically speaking, of course people should take responsibility for their actions. But I honestly fail to comprehend how someone could really believe that financial institutions should be shielded from the responsibility of their bad decisions. It's just plain crazy. It's really no point in discussing it.

Here's the type of thing that the untouchable Goldman Sachs engaged in with respect to Greece. Dang!!! Someone really wants to put forward that they bear no responsibility for this type of activity. No wonder the world is in such a mess.



Wall St. Helped to Mask Debt Fueling Europe’s Crisis

This old worn out partisan rhetoric is crap. People need to start discussing things as they are.

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Huh ?

Wallstreet ? You're blaming the creditors ?

Thats like blaming the Bank for repossesing your Car because you refused t o make the payments after driving it through 3 feet of water.

The Cars trash, you know it, but who cares it was the banks fault for giving you the loan.....Lol

Besides, German Banks hold that vast majoritybof Greece's worthless debt right now. I guess they deserve whats coming to them.

Here's what your'e defending. The first thing the new Greek PM did was go out and lay a wreath at a WWII memorial.

It was to memorialize the killing of 200 Greek citizens by the Nazi's over 50 years ago.

Do you know why he did that ? He's trying to create a Narrative that would justify Greece's welching on their debt.

He's using the deaths of 200 of his Country men to justify defaulting on his Country's massive debt.

Socialist are some of the most morally bankrupt individuals on Planet earth.

And before commenting on the nature of Conservativism you should at least make an attempt to understand its principles.

Money has pooled in the hands of the few and the wealthiest more in the last 6 years than it has in decades. Its not due to Conservative principles.

Its due to this cancer called progressivism thats gained traction in Europe and America over the last few years.

Massive unprecedented Government intervention into the free markets and idiotic policies and regulations for the purpose of mandating economic " justice " and " equality " have caused this massive stagnation of wealth.

From QE, to Fiscal Stimulus to idiotic laws that target the Middle classes discretionary income and raise taxes on the " rich ". Its one bad idea after another and its creating more disparity.


Your definition of Conservatism is Literalisms definition of Conservatism.

Fenton said:

Huh ?

Wallstreet ? You're blaming the creditors ?

Thats like blaming the Bank for repossesing your Car because you refused t o make the payments after driving it through 3 feet of water.

The Cars trash, you know it, but who cares it was the banks fault for giving you the loan.....Lol

Besides, German Banks hold that vast majoritybof Greece's worthless debt right now. I guess they deserve whats coming to them.

Here's what your'e defending. The first thing the new Greek PM did was go out and lay a wreath at a WWII memorial.

It was to memorialize the killing of 200 Greek citizens by the Nazi's over 50 years ago.

Do you know why he did that ? He's trying to create a Narrative that would justify Greece's welching on their debt.

He's using the deaths of 200 of his Country men to justify defaulting on his Country's massive debt.

Socialist are some of the most morally bankrupt individuals on Planet earth.

And before commenting on the nature of Conservativism you should at least make an attempt to understand its principles.

Money has pooled in the hands of the few and the wealthiest more in the last 6 years than it has in decades. Its not due to Conservative principles.

Its due to this cancer called progressivism thats gained traction in Europe and America over the last few years.

Massive unprecedented Government intervention into the free markets and idiotic policies and regulations for the purpose of mandating economic " justice " and " equality " have caused this massive stagnation of wealth.

From QE, to Fiscal Stimulus to idiotic laws that target the Middle classes discretionary income and raise taxes on the " rich ". Its one bad idea after another and its creating more disparity.

Your definition of Conservatism is Literalisms definition of Conservatism.

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Tell you what buddy, I'm going to do both of us a favor and close out my tab here because really, I'm not interested in some stale, partisan, rhetorical contest. My position is this, those that take out loans need to bear the responsibility for their decisions. NOT ONLY THAT, but financial institutions that make bad loans need to take responsibility for their decisions as well. Banks make money by making loans. If they feel that they will be bailed out if they make bad decisions, that simply encourages them to make bad decisions. If someone can't see that. There is really nothing to be said. As I said earlier, it's s ridiculous discussion.

IMO there needs to be other viable political alternatives than those offered currently by Democrats and Republicans alike. I find neither appealing at this point.

Fenton said:

Huh ?

Wallstreet ? You're blaming the creditors ?

Thats like blaming the Bank for repossesing your Car because you refused t o make the payments after driving it through 3 feet of water.

The Cars trash, you know it, but who cares it was the banks fault for giving you the loan.....Lol

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What a bs analogy. A more accurate analogy would be placing a bet on a horse in Vegas while fixing the race and letting the jockey take the fall when the rigging is exposed.. by yourself.

Besides, German Banks hold that vast majoritybof Greece's worthless debt right now. I guess they deserve whats coming to them.

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False. Banks world wide hold about 10% of Greek debt. The rest is held by various countries. Have you even paid attention the last 7 years? You do realize that the whole bailout/hair cut was to get Greek debt off the balance sheets of banks and onto that of nation states..

Here's what your'e defending. The first thing the new Greek PM did was go out and lay a wreath at a WWII memorial.

It was to memorialize the killing of 200 Greek citizens by the Nazi's over 50 years ago.

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On the liberation day of Auschwitz.. and what is wrong with that? It was going on all over Europe.

Do you know why he did that ? He's trying to create a Narrative that would justify Greece's welching on their debt.

He's using the deaths of 200 of his Country men to justify defaulting on his Country's massive debt.

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LOL now you are reaching big time.

Socialist are some of the most morally bankrupt individuals on Planet earth.

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Well that is debatable considering in most cases the "conservatives" were deeply involved if not instigating the economic crisis and have since hence run from any responsibility and blamed everyone else. This has happened in the US, Spain, Italy, Greece (some what), France and many other countries. Right wing economic policies based on trickle down theory aka Reaganomics has been the basis of European and American economic policy for almost 30 years. Hell even "left wing" parties took part in the love fest when they were in power.

And before commenting on the nature of Conservativism you should at least make an attempt to understand its principles.

Money has pooled in the hands of the few and the wealthiest more in the last 6 years than it has in decades. Its not due to Conservative principles.

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Err yes it is. It is classic Reaganomics.

Its due to this cancer called progressivism thats gained traction in Europe and America over the last few years.

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So you hate Reagan now? Was he a liberal?

Massive unprecedented Government intervention into the free markets and idiotic policies and regulations for the purpose of mandating economic " justice " and " equality " have caused this massive stagnation of wealth.

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LOL it was a lack of regulations that caused the crisis in the first place! 60+% of the mortgage loans in 2006 was in the unregulated sub-prime market in the US.. so crap that not even Fannie and Freddie were allowed to buy it.

From QE, to Fiscal Stimulus to idiotic laws that target the Middle classes discretionary income and raise taxes on the " rich ". Its one bad idea after another and its creating more disparity.

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Well here I agree up to a point.. QE was done wrong and the fiscal stimulus was not big enough. Fact is that all policies since Reagan have been focused on enriching the 1% and it has worked.

What should have been done was to get QE money to the middle and lower classes, not into the hands of the 1%. What should have been done was to use a fiscal stimulus to improve the US infrastructure and not prop up "friendly" industries and 1%ers. And what should have been done long ago when the economy was booming.. like under Bush (yes it was a false boom) and under Clinton.. was to cut spending and debt. THIS was never done.

Fact is, to improve any economy you need to increase demand for goods and the only way you can do that is to put more money in the hands of the majority of the people. The west has forgotten this very basic principle of economics thanks to American Reganonomics voodoo bull**** of the last 30 years. They have always focused on tax cuts at the top end of the income scale.. utterly worthless method and especially in the US where the income disparity is so massive. Freeing up cash for the middle class is key and always has been. Freeing up cash for Paris Hilton for her cocaine habit or Kim Kardasians butt implants.. worthless.

Fenton said:

Their new President is such a Socialist Low life. Honestly, there's no other word for it.

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Know the expression, 'he who smelt it dealt it'?

One of the first things he did was to go and lay flowers at a WW II Memorial. Apparently the Nazi's executed 200 Greeks and he felt ( for some reason ) he needed to call attention to this.

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You do know it was Holocaust Memorial Day, don't you? What a scummy, partisan comment!

Fenton said:

Lol !!! Now its the creditors fault ??? Whats wrong with you people ?

Nonsense. Utter and complete low information nonsense.

Greece entered into the Union under false pretenses and then hid their debt away from EVERYONE until a new administration took over in 2008

They misrepresented their position and took advantage of that misrepresentation until they couldn't any longer.

Now they're welching. They're irresponsible and arguably criminal acts are threatening the Euro and German banks.

Click to expand...

Well, consider the fact that the EU continues to bail out the dying Socialist Greek economy with more and more loans. In that sense I agree that the EU is partly responsible for the losses. They should have kicked the Greeks out of the EU and let them crumble long ago. Syriza will change his tune quickly once he realizes that defaulting on the bail outs means no more bail outs in the future.

jmotivator said:

Well, consider the fact that the EU continues to bail out the dying Socialist Greek economy with more and more loans. In that sense I agree that the EU is partly responsible for the losses. They should have kicked the Greeks out of the EU and let them crumble long ago. Syriza will change his tune quickly once he realizes that defaulting on the bail outs means no more bail outs in the future.

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Syriza is a political party, not a person.

Interesting interview from the new (not then) Greek finance minister:

[video]http://bcove.me/q8tcp8bd[/video]

The most important thing he said is at the end of the interview:

Yanis Varoufakis said:

You can't have a monetary union that pretends it can survive a major financial crisis simply by lending more money to deficit countries on the condition they should simply reduce their income.

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I'd enjoy the implosion of the EU a lot more if the United States wasn't following down the same path.

MildSteel said:

A one sided take on the issue. Part of fiscal responsibility means not making loans to people who can't pay them back. If you do that, you have to shoulder the responsibility of the consequences, which means accepting losses. If you can't do that, don't make loans in the first place.

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Part of the reason Greece got into this mess is because they hid debt from lenders to forstall the day of reckoning.

MildSteel said:

I'm going to tell you something. It is clear to me that liberals live in an unsustainable egalitarian utopian fantasy. On the other hand conservatives like you live in another fantasy that is essentially dystopian in nature and is based on the moronic idea that somehow giving everything to the elite of an economic oligarchy results in the best outcome for all. When pressed, all you ever seem to be able to say is that it has always been that way.

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Very perceptive of you, and conservatives are right. Poor people don't hire anyone, and if people who don't know how to make money get it they waste it.

Goldman Sachs and other banks provided the Greek government with a service that the Greek government wanted. They wanted to be shielded from their obligation to be transparent with EU authorities.

LowDown said:

Part of the reason Greece got into this mess is because they hid debt from lenders to forstall the day of reckoning.

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Banks helped Greece perpetrate fraud. I really don't want to hear any excuses on their behalf.

LowDown said:

Very perceptive of you,

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Yes, I know. Thank you.

LowDown said:

and conservatives are right.

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They are right, ***** is good! :lamo

LowDown said:

Poor people don't hire anyone,

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The guy that cuts my grass is poor and he hires two people to work for him. So you are wrong.

LowDown said:

and if people who don't know how to make money get it they waste it.

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Rich people waste money. George W Bush is rich and he wasted all kinds of money invading Iraq. Wasted a bunch of lives too.

LowDown said:

Goldman Sachs and other banks provided the Greek government with a service that the Greek government wanted.

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Yep. They helped perpetrate fraud. That's why they should have been allowed to fail.

LowDown said:

They wanted to be shielded from their obligation to be transparent with EU authorities.

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Rich people want to be shielded from their obligation to pay taxes. That's why they do all sorts of things to avoid it, some illegal.

Kushinator said:

Interesting interview from the new (not then) Greek finance minister:

[video]http://bcove.me/q8tcp8bd[/video]

The most important thing he said is at the end of the interview:

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I heard an interview with Varoufakis on the BBC. He's a very smart cookie. He's also absolutely right. The troika has to realise that a policy of lending vast amounts of money to country, the repayment conditions of which ensure that their economy is never going to be able to repay it, is insane. Greece cannot and will not pay back their debt as it is currently structured. They simply have no way of doing so. Restructuring a debt (and a bit of write-off added) is the only way that the lenders have any chance of being repaid. They'll understand that, given a bit of time.

MildSteel said:

Poor people don't create jobs

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The guy that cuts my grass is poor and he hires two people to work for him. So you are wrong.

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Nope, he's middle class.

and if people who don't know how to make money get it they waste it.

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Rich people waste money. George W Bush is rich and he wasted all kinds of money invading Iraq. Wasted a bunch of lives too.

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Foreign policy has nothing to do with it, but it is Pres. Obama who is set to turn that money and those lives into a waste, not Bush

Goldman Sachs and other banks provided the Greek government with a service that the Greek government wanted.

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Yep. They helped perpetrate fraud. That's why they should have been allowed to fail.

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No, they did nothing illegal. It's not illegal when a sovereign nation does it to another sovereign nation. Greece's foreign policy is Greece's alone.

Rich people want to be shielded from their obligation to pay taxes. That's why they do all sorts of things to avoid it, some illegal.

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All people and corporations have an fiduciary obligation to arrange their affairs so as to minimize their tax burden and maximize their own resources. It is purile to equate that to selfishness or greed.