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Saudi King Abdullah dies aged 91

Why would anyone be? A ruler who had absolute power, ruled through theocratic rule, ruled under extreme Wahhabi Islamic Law, human rights abuser, allowed virtually no freedom in his country, possible links to ISIS and other forms of terrorism. Why would anyone morn this? I mean **** his country and regime is comparable to the hermit Kingdom DPRK when it comes to human rights and justice...

Because change takes time. More women in the workforce- more women sent overseas for education. It all has a ripple effect.
 
Because change takes time. More women in the workforce- more women sent overseas for education. It all has a ripple effect.

Thats no excuse for theocracy, repression, and vast human rights violations. Its like saying well since Kim Jong-Un is power "change will take time".
 
Thats no excuse for theocracy, repression, and vast human rights violations. Its like saying well since Kim Jong-Un is power "change will take time".

That may be so but's it's reality. Not long ago in this country blacks had no rights and women couldn't even vote. These things don't change overnight.
 
That may be so but's it's reality. Not long ago in this country blacks had no rights and women couldn't even vote. These things don't change overnight.

Of course they have and can. Its called a revolution.
 
That may be so but's it's reality. Not long ago in this country blacks had no rights and women couldn't even vote. These things don't change overnight.

Well then it comes to Saudi Arabia it is an understatment that changes are going slow. That after 40 years people can still get 10 years in prison and whipped 1 000 times for offending Islam. That after 40 years of close ties too USA they could maybee get down to 50 lasher or maybee even be soo "progressive" that you only get 10 years in prison for "offending Islam" without lashes. But for you still wanting to defend the country you can point to the fact that the goverment is so "noble" that you only get 50 lashes at a time and if you get too injured they can increase the time between the lashes.

Saudi blogger's second round of lashes postponed - CNN.com
 
Thats no excuse for theocracy, repression, and vast human rights violations. Its like saying well since Kim Jong-Un is power "change will take time".

Not making any excuse- just the way it is.
 
Thats no excuse for theocracy, repression, and vast human rights violations. Its like saying well since Kim Jong-Un is power "change will take time".

Change does take time, especially in that neighborhood. Under Abdullah, women obtained the ability to vote. The cascade of events that occurs with women being able to travel, get educated, etc is well known.

SA isn't perfect, but its better than the alternatives.
 
Change does take time, especially in that neighborhood. Under Abdullah, women obtained the ability to vote. The cascade of events that occurs with women being able to travel, get educated, etc is well known.

SA isn't perfect, but its better than the alternatives.

Can you really talk about change then a blogger is sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1 000 lashes for insulting Islam? You also have to consider that the Saudis mean with insulting Islam. It is not the western type of painting picture of Mohammed instead the blogger just questioned if the the Saudi goverment had the right to meddle in people's personal lives.

Then it comes to woman, that yes they of 2015 will be able to vote in local election. But is that really a big triumph for woman? That the only other country that have elections for only men is the Vatican city. At the same time after 40 years of close ties to USA, woman in Saudi Arabia are not for example allowed to drive a car, be in a public place without a male chaperone, go for a swim or even buy a barbie doll. That life can even be better for woman in Iran. For example in Iran you even have woman racing drivers. In Saudi Arabia you probably would get wiped only thinking of that idea.

Eleven things women in Saudi Arabia can't do | News | The Week UK

Women's rights in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Women's rights in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Also it can be hard to have an organized moderate opposition in Saudi Arabia, then any attempt to question the fundamentalist brainwash of the regime is met with the whip and imprisonment. Even if you have some brave souls like the blogger. The risk are instead that you end up with people believing so much in the fundamelist brainwash that the strongly object to fact that Saudi Arabia is protected by "American infidels". Like for example Osama bin Ladin that used his share of his Saudi familly fortune to declare holy war against the USA.

Also Saudi Arabia is not only content with Saudi Arabia being a fundamentalist country. That they also use the oil money to spread fundamentalist islamic beliefs around the world.

Analyses - Madrassas | PBS - Saudi Time Bomb? | FRONTLINE | PBS
 
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Can you really talk about change then a blogger is sentenced to 10 years in prison and 1 000 lashes for insulting Islam? You also have to consider that the Saudis mean with insulting Islam. It is not the western type of painting picture of Mohammed instead the blogger just questioned if the the Saudi goverment had the right to meddle in people's personal lives.

Then it comes to woman, that yes they of 2015 will be able to vote in local election. But is that really a big triumph for woman? That the only other country that have elections for only men is the Vatican city. At the same time after 40 years of close ties to USA, woman in Saudi Arabia are not for example allowed to drive a car, be in a public place without a male chaperone, go for a swim or even buy a barbie doll. That life can even be better for woman in Iran. For example in Iran you even have woman racing drivers. In Saudi Arabia you probably would get wiped only thinking of that idea.

Eleven things women in Saudi Arabia can't do | News | The Week UK

Women's rights in Iran - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Women's rights in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Also it can be hard to have an organized moderate opposition in Saudi Arabia, then any attempt to question the fundamentalist brainwash of the regime is met with the whip and imprisonment. Even if you have some brave souls like the blogger. The risk are instead that you end up with people believing so much in the fundamelist brainwash that the strongly object to fact that Saudi Arabia is protected by "American infidels". Like for example Osama bin Ladin that used his share of his Saudi familly fortune to declare holy war against the USA.

Also Saudi Arabia is not only content with Saudi Arabia being a fundamentalist country. That they also use the oil money to spread fundamentalist islamic beliefs around the world.

Analyses - Madrassas | PBS - Saudi Time Bomb? | FRONTLINE | PBS

I absolutely can, because it adds something called CONTEXT. SA isn't the west-but its better than ISIS and they are more suitable to our interests than ISIS would be. They aren't and will never be westerners.
 
I absolutely can, because it adds something called CONTEXT. SA isn't the west-but its better than ISIS and they are more suitable to our interests than ISIS would be. They aren't and will never be westerners.

Well if you look at context USA have supported SA for almost 40 years and still SA in many ways is a more fundementalistic country when Iran,


Also if you look at context you have in the islamic part of the world a fight and debate between moderates and fundamentalist muslims. Their SA is strenghteing and supporting the fundamentalist all around the world.
 
Well if you look at context USA have supported SA for almost 40 years and still SA in many ways is a more fundementalistic country when Iran,


Also if you look at context you have in the islamic part of the world a fight and debate between moderates and fundamentalist muslims. Their SA is strenghteing and supporting the fundamentalist all around the world.

Iran was much more moderate until the late 70's. SA has always been very conservative-thats the context thing Im talking about. 30 years isn't much to these nations-thats how it works there.

I have no love for SA, but they are walking a VERY fine line right now-get too friendly to the west and perhaps they will be overtaken by ISIS. Crack down on ISIS too hard and perhaps the same will happen.

I expect their foreign policy to hold steady, and internally a security crackdown will continue.
 
Iran was much more moderate until the late 70's. SA has always been very conservative-thats the context thing Im talking about. 30 years isn't much to these nations-thats how it works there.

I have no love for SA, but they are walking a VERY fine line right now-get too friendly to the west and perhaps they will be overtaken by ISIS. Crack down on ISIS too hard and perhaps the same will happen.

I expect their foreign policy to hold steady, and internally a security crackdown will continue.

Yes that is the big problem that SA stand for a extremly fundamentalistic and intolerate form of islam Wahhabism and at the same have extreme amount of oil money. That means that not only have the SA people have to suffer for 30 years with almost no change. But the SA have for decades spent enormous amount of money spreading Wahhabism . You also have to realise that SA is really a strange thing that with that kind of extreme islamic beliefs it would be more likely that they would be anti USA. But because of the protection and all the dollars for their oil the monarchy are loyal to USA and the west. But the same can't be said about all the people that is teached Saudi Wahhabism.

Jonathan Manthorpe: Saudi Arabia funding fuels jihadist terror

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/crime-and-punishment-islamic-state-vs-saudi-arabia-1588245666
 
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Iran was much more moderate until the late 70's. SA has always been very conservative-thats the context thing Im talking about. 30 years isn't much to these nations-thats how it works there.

I have no love for SA, but they are walking a VERY fine line right now-get too friendly to the west and perhaps they will be overtaken by ISIS. Crack down on ISIS too hard and perhaps the same will happen.

I expect their foreign policy to hold steady, and internally a security crackdown will continue.


Lets be realistic about SA, what it is and why we support calm there. What it is, is a nation which produces 1o million barrels of oil a day in a world that uses about 85 million. It is a nation that is sitting on a wealth fund of about $900 billion, so where and what they invest in matters to the world economy. So in a word they are POWERFUL well beyond the size of their people or the might of their military.

They can allow the world to be flooded with oil as they are doing now, knocking the price in more than half, or they can cut off the spigot and sent the price skyrocketing as they did in the 70's.

So they have to be dealt with very carefully, even if they are key exporters of the strain of religion that causes terrorism.

As they say money talks and B.S. walks.
 
Hopefully, their oil policy doesn't change course, and the transition between rulers will be smooth.

Saudi Arabia is the glue basically holding the Gulf states together against Iran. If it were to become destabilized, that could present some pretty significant problems.

it is not a balance settting for the peace of ME as you admitted.it is all about politics .when it comes to these two faced saudi kings manY of you stop screaming o la laa radical islamism or islam is primitive .you know saudi arabia is worse than iran in terms of freedoms but you know they are moderate too :roll:
 
Why would anyone be? A ruler who had absolute power, ruled through theocratic rule, ruled under extreme Wahhabi Islamic Law, human rights abuser, allowed virtually no freedom in his country, possible links to ISIS and other forms of terrorism. Why would anyone morn this? I mean **** his country and regime is comparable to the hermit Kingdom DPRK when it comes to human rights and justice...

they like islam more than you .dont you know ?:roll:
 
Sounds much like the socialist/marxists of the last century.
:roll:
what about primitive islam ? where are those muslim hater bigots WHO never miss any chance to mock islam ?where are those democrat westerners WHO care about democratic values ?

damn l am always right :2razz:
 
That totalitarian regimes kill people and commit abuses? Strikingly you leave out the right wing... But hey, I get it hackery is hackery. Im a socialist, therefore to you everything done in the name of socialism is totalitarianism must be brought up at any post ever (even when I have criticized these regimes etc etc), even when its completely off topic.

be thankful that you are not turkey
 
Irrespective of what some may think, King Abdullah specifically and the Saudi royal family in general, have been good and loyal friends of the west and have been a stabilizing influence both in the region and economically on the world oil markets. Without them, the Venezuelans under Chavez and others would have worked to destroy western economies through OPEC policy long ago.

Let's also keep in mind that the world, led by the United States, NATO allies, and the United Nations acted quickly to reclaim and protect little Kuwait when Hussein decided on a little expansionary adventure. If anyone, ISIS included, decided now was the time to move on Saudi territory to destabilize the region, there's no doubt in my mind that western military forces would be there to destroy any such move.

Sometimes, in the world we live in, we have to accept friendship and cooperation from those we may feel have principles that are compromised in our view and in comparison to ours. The Saudis are one such friend and the west will be wise to protect that friendship should it come under attack.
hi canada
can we say the so called western value is nothing but just Money ? they suddenly stop mocking anything about this religion when it is about saudis.
 
Change does take time, especially in that neighborhood. Under Abdullah, women obtained the ability to vote. The cascade of events that occurs with women being able to travel, get educated, etc is well known.

SA isn't perfect, but its better than the alternatives.

which alterntives ? :shock:

you never feel sorrry for those saudi women ?


iran is more democratic when compared to saudi arabia but they are bad boys

lets be honest
 
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