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House GOP drops controversial abortion bill ahead of Roe v. Wade anniversary

OrphanSlug said:
From your own article, it appears there were real concerns with the Bill. It was not about "offending" female GOP congress members.
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ajiveman has never been swayed by the truth, when it gets in the way of his hackery. I can just picture him sitting at his computer all giddily typing this thread, "Bwuahahah I'll get those rightwingers now." :roll:
 
American said:
ajiveman has never been swayed by the truth, when it gets in the way of his hackery. I can just picture him sitting at his computer all giddily typing this thread, "Bwuahahah I'll get those rightwingers now." :roll:
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That very well may be the case, I just have different take on why this bill died. Ironically, my take has no emotional investment.
 
Hatuey said:
Why not step to the plate and behind your convictions of the matter. Why not try come out in the open and overturn Roe v. Wade? Why the rhetoric? :)
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How do you expect Congress to overturn Roe v. Wade? That's sort of, you know, the Supreme Court's responsibility (their obligation, really, if any of them care about upholding the Constitution they swore to uphold).
 
Hatuey said:
Nothing needed to be tweaked. They pulled it because they were worried about the next election. Read paragraph 1:

House Republicans drop controversial abortion bill ahead of Roe v. Wade anniversary | Fox News
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No, that's not true...The provisions about reporting were at odds within the caucus, but they absolutely should have passed it, and worked out the differences later.

Why not stand up and proudly propose it if their mandate is what the American people want? Reality is about to start crashing down on the GOPs policies.
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Oh come on Hautey...I am sure that we could both find bills when the demo's controlled the house that were shelved in exactly the same way...I don't think that you would have been there calling them 'cowards' so to speak for doing that...But, in the end I agree with you in the sense that they should have passed it, and fixed it later...It was an unforced error, and not a great start considering that close to 70% support banning late term abortion.
 
j-mac said:
No, that's not true...
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So FOX News is wrong and they didn't drop the bill in order to not alienate women voters? lol.

Oh come on Hautey...I am sure that we could both find bills when the demo's controlled the house that were shelved in exactly the same way.
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Yep, and if they dropped them so that they wouldn't alienate voters, they also didn't stand up for what they believed in.
 
JayDubya said:
How do you expect Congress to overturn Roe v. Wade? That's sort of, you know, the Supreme Court's responsibility (their obligation, really, if any of them care about upholding the Constitution they swore to uphold).
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Oh we both know that the GOP has been undermining Roe v. Wade for decades. Why not do it again?
 
cpwill said:
I would concur with that. On the 5 yard line, no less. 95 yards to go, and we fumble :doh
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More like the 1 yard line. Remember, even if this bill had been passed, it would have only addressed 1% of abortion. ;)
 
Hatuey said:
So FOX News is wrong and they didn't drop the bill in order to not alienate women voters? lol.
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No, they didn't drop it, they shelved it til a later time at which time they can work out the language...But you know that...Come on...I know that your whole purpose here is to kick repubs, but not gonna happen the way you think, because in some fashion, I agree that they should have passed it...

Yep, and if they dropped them so that they wouldn't alienate voters, they also didn't stand up for what they believed in.
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Look, you want to just bash, then go ahead, but how many times do you want someone to say they agree, before you stop trying to bait them into an argument?
 
j-mac said:
No, they didn't drop it,
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House GOP drops controversial abortion bill ahead of Roe v. Wade anniversary

Look, you want to just bash,
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There is nothing to bash. I'm gloating in the idea that the GOP dropped a bill because they're now worried about votes.
 
Lursa said:
Thank you for confirming my post. Or at least most of it. Kudos to you for being consistent on abortion in the case of rape. (no sarcasm)
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Now if only knew what post you're referring to...
 
Hatuey said:
House GOP drops controversial abortion bill ahead of Roe v. Wade anniversary
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I already said it was a bad idea to do so...At least 3 times now that I know of today....What the hell do you want?

There is nothing to bash. I'm gloating in the idea that the GOP dropped a bill because they're now worried about votes.
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So, you posted this article just to goad people, and antagonize them....Is that what I am reading from you now?
 
OrphanSlug said:
As a Libertarian I am not for outlawing abortions outright, but I am for removal of how we seem to have circumvented the Hyde Amendment.

There seems to be a fair level of confusion and concern with what Planned Parenthood is using their well north of $1 Million per day from the government to exactly fund. There is very little accounting of what Planned Parenthood allocates that money to other than "services." Under that category ends up just about all Planned Parenthood does, and as of recent Planned Parenthood rejects the idea of being accountable to the GAO or Congress on where all that money goes.

But more to the point of this thread it is not a general statement about medical procedures funded by the government, just a point of contention on where the line should be for the abortion debate. It seems to me a good compromise between the pro-abortion group and pro-life group is to ensure government is entirely out of the mix. Put the onus on the individual to decide these things and fund their own decision to end life. There may be a certain subset of conditions where a government funded abortion to those of need is acceptable in those cases of rape, incest, etc. But we seem to be shying away from that conversation here, and I would be against more government funding of any regard (especially in the context of this topic.)

I have no choice ideologically to be against the idea that we have designed a way for an organization to perform so many abortions, seemingly on the government dime, with zero accountability as to the numbers of abortions they have achieved and how they funded all these procedures. I am not asking for HIPAA or ACA privacy laws to be broken, just some degree of reporting to ensure that Planned Parenthood is doing what they claim they are.
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Actually Planned Parenthood is not given public funds in a general fund.

Planned Parenthood centers are reimbursed by the government for providing specific preventive health services, such as cervical-cancer screenings, breast exams, testing for disease and birth control for their low-income patients, just the same way as private doctors and other health clinics are reimbursed for providimg specific health services for their low income patients.
 
minnie616 said:
Actually Planned Parenthood is not given public funds in a general fund.

Planned Parenthood centers are reimbursed by the government for providing specific preventive health services, such as cervical-cancer screenings, breast exams, testing for disease and birth control for their low-income patients, just the same way as private doctors and other health clinics are reimbursed for providimg specific health services for their low income patients.
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Precisely. Because, as everyone knows, money isn't fungible.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I would rather that Republicans focus on ending government funded abortions, instead of working so hard to define limits which give us these sort of problems to contend with.
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I'd rather see them focus on things that benefit the American people, not just bills that burnish their political currency.
 
Hatuey said:
So FOX News is wrong and they didn't drop the bill in order to not alienate women voters?
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If that is what FOX is claiming, then yes. This limitation on abortion is more popular with women than men.

Yep, and if they dropped them so that they wouldn't alienate voters, they also didn't stand up for what they believed in.
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Yup. Unforced Error. Way to start the year off by making yourself look incompetent and untrustworthy, GOP leadership :doh
 
j-mac said:
I already said it was a bad idea to do so.
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Good grief, try and follow a conversation. You stated they didn't drop it. I stated that they did. You said they didn't again. DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE?!?! They dropped it.

So, you posted this article just to goad people
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I didn't post any article. :lol: Republicans were scared of what women voters thought of their policies on abortion so they dropped the bill. Own it.
 
minnie616 said:
Actually Planned Parenthood is not given public funds in a general fund.

Planned Parenthood centers are reimbursed by the government for providing specific preventive health services, such as cervical-cancer screenings, breast exams, testing for disease and birth control for their low-income patients, just the same way as private doctors and other health clinics are reimbursed for providimg specific health services for their low income patients.
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Is money fungible Minnie?
 
cpwill said:
If that is what FOX is claiming, then yes. This limitation on abortion is more popular with women than men.
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The legislation being popular with some women voters and it alienating women voters are two different things. The two can be mutually exclusive.
 
minnie616 said:
Actually Planned Parenthood is not given public funds in a general fund.

Planned Parenthood centers are reimbursed by the government for providing specific preventive health services, such as cervical-cancer screenings, breast exams, testing for disease and birth control for their low-income patients, just the same way as private doctors and other health clinics are reimbursed for providimg specific health services for their low income patients.
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So why not submit to GAO requests for audits?
 
rocket88 said:
I'd rather see them focus on things that benefit the American people, not just bills that burnish their political currency.
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Good luck with that (but I agree, it would be nice.)
 
Jerry said:
No amendment is needed. The Constitution already gives Congress this power.
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I'm going to regret asking this. Where does the Constitution give Congress the power to overstep the separation of powers?
 
cpwill said:
Precisely. Because, as everyone knows, money isn't fungible.
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The funds reimbursed to Planned Parenthood isn't really fungible.
That's a talking point that has no real basis in the case of Planned Parenthood funds.

All money donated to Planned Parenthood that is earmarked for cetain service goes to that service.
Funds for breast cancer sevices goes to help more women obtain breast screening exams.

Abortion clinics charge the patients for abortions.
Over 200,000 women request help paying for their abortions every year.

Private donations help women pay for their abortions.
From the fund abortion now .org site:
Where do abortion funds get their money?

Nearly all abortion funds get their money from private donors who care about abortion access.
The people who donate to abortion funds believe that every woman has a right to make the decision that’s best for her life and her situation, regardless of how much money she has in the bank.

Can abortion funds pay the whole cost of my abortion?

Sadly, abortion funds cannot afford to cover the whole cost of your abortion. There are 200,000 women every single year who need help paying for an abortion, and right now there’s just not enough money to go around.

Abortion funds will give you as much as they can. They may also help you to get a clinic discount. Make sure to ask.
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In the following <SNIP> a women with 5 children resells of of struggles to try to raise money for an abortion when her husband was laid off his job during the last recession and she found out she was expecting again. Because they loved their children very much they decided she needed an abortion.She sold her wedding ring and other items but still did not have enough to pay the abortion so she aked for help funding the abortion:



Here is a <SNIP> from her story.
Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off.

I love my big family...and I love my children too much to have another baby right now.

My husband and I have five children. We love kids and we love having a big family. But when my husband got laid off from his contractor job, having a big family got really hard.

When I found out I was pregnant again, it was terrifying. We love the idea of another child -- but we love the children we have too much to add that kind of stress to our family right now.

I'm only working part-time and I couldn't get maternity leave, so I might not be able to keep my job with another little one. I hated that we had to make this decision, but it turned out that making the decision was the easiest part. Because then we had to find the money to pay for an abortion.

We started taking stuff to the pawn shop: our vacuum cleaner, my wedding ring, our family television, the old desktop computer. When that wasn't enough, we took my husband's tools and his drills.

We started taking stuff to the pawn shop: our vacuum cleaner, my wedding ring, our family television, the old desktop computer. When that wasn't enough, we took my husband's tools and his drills.

That was the hardest trip. My husband's been trying to pick up construction work. Without his tools or his drills, there's hardly anyone who'll hire him.

And after all that, we were short on what we needed. But the woman at the clinic gave us the name of an abortion fund.

An abortion fund. Who knew, right?

They gave us what we needed.

And when I broke down on the phone and admitted that we didn't even have gas money to get to the clinic, they helped us with that, too.

So now I pay the pawn shop every month to keep our things -- my wedding ring and my husband's tools are the only ones we can afford to pay on. And if you miss a month, the payment is doubled from then on. So we're stuck in this cycle. We'll be paying for this abortion for a long time.

But the panic is gone. The rest of it, well...we'll figure it out. We'll do whatever we have to do to take care of our family.
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Sonia has 5 kids and her husband was just laid off. | Fund Abortion Now.org
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Hatuey said:
Good grief, try and follow a conversation. You stated they didn't drop it. I stated that they did. You said they didn't again. DID YOU READ THE ARTICLE?!?! They dropped it.



I didn't post any article. :lol: Republicans were scared of what women voters thought of their policies on abortion so they dropped the bill. Own it.
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Sigh* for the FOURTH DAMNED TIME, LISTEN UP! I agree that they "shelved", "dropped for now", "failed to consider", what ever the hell you call it, and should have absolutely passed it, and fixed it later...Now just what the hell is your problem? Any more of this baiting from you, and I will do something I rarely do, which is report it....You aren't in here to discuss anything, just brow beat a stupid non distinction to argue, and bait....There is a name for people like you, but like I said, if you want a conversation, then by all means continue, otherwise I am done with you here...You bring NOTHING to this thread.
 
minnie616 said:
The funds reimbursed to Planned Parenthood isn't really fungible.
That's a talking point that has no real basis in the case of Planned Parenthood funds.
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money is inherently fungible. That's like arguing that the water in planned parenthoods' water fountains isn't wet.
 
j-mac said:
I agree that they "shelved", "dropped for now", "failed to consider", what ever the hell you call it,
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Let's play "Who Said What":

Hatuey said this:

Hatuey said:
Nothing needed to be tweaked. They pulled it because they were worried about the next election.
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Who said This:

No, they didn't drop it,
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If you get it right, I get to call you honest. I'm glad you stopped going after the "you posted this" nonsense. I wouldn't want you to actually read a thread before deciding to lob out accusations.
 
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