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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Desperate BS . Did you even read this ? This is a business contract to renovate and repair a Sevastopol school roof ! This is your definitive evidence ! :lamo

Yes, I flat out told you it was about schools in Crimea. US Navy doesn't do charity when it comes to it's budget. US Navy tendering for construction work in Sevastopol is a clear sign what the US Navy wanted.. they wanted Sevastopol for the US Navy and the only way that was gonna happen is if Ukraine ended it's agreement with Russia and Ukraine joined NATO. Welcome to what this is all about. It's why NATO countries like the US encouraged the likes of Ukraine and Georgia who ended up pissing off Russia just a bit too much and Georgia and Mikheil Saakashvili ended up getting smacked down and not a NATO country insight helping them. Georgia wasn't a NATO country and NATO backed off massively on adding them.

Yet people are surprised on why Russia has issues with NATO/EU and their encouragement of Ukraine to join them.. when the biggest douche bag in the world Mikheil Saakashvili is working for the Ukrainian Government. The man is wanted in Georgia for war crimes.
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Except for the fact that this was not just about to happen you might have had a point

If Ukraine went to the West and got NATO status, Russia loses Crimean ports and by the point it would have been an act of aggression on a future NATO member making it a MUCH bigger deal. So Russia decided to get ahead of the issue. Why can't you see or even understand.. Russia did the only thing it could to preserve those ports for their fleet in which NATO couldn't do **** about.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Yes, I flat out told you it was about schools in Crimea. US Navy doesn't do charity when it comes to it's budget.

Really ? This is part of the EUCOM Humanitarian assistance programme and involves all arms of the federal government

Past projects have included:

Flood relief in Poland, Serbia, Albania and Moldova
Water pumps in Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Romania
44 school renovations
28 hospital/clinic renovations and equipment upgrades
33 emergency services/water related upgrades

US Navy tendering for construction work in Sevastopol is a clear sign what the US Navy wanted.. they wanted Sevastopol for the US Navy and the only way that was gonna happen is if Ukraine ended it's agreement with Russia and Ukraine joined NATO.

But Ukraine wasn't just about to do that and had abandoned all pretense of joining in 2010 and 2 years after your long redundant article. Putin certainly knew this too so you can't somehow use it as an excuse for Russian aggression today. Perhaps you should get yourself up to date

Ukraine drops 'unrealistic' plans for Nato membership | World news | The Guardian

Yet people are surprised on why Russia has issues with NATO/EU and their encouragement of Ukraine to join them.
And with hindsight its a great pity for them that they didn't because 5000+ Ukrainians would still be alive today
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

If Ukraine went to the West and got NATO status

But the Ukraine wasn't joining NATO but the EU trading group as has been explained multiple times

Russia loses Crimean ports and by the point it would have been an act of aggression on a future NATO member making it a MUCH bigger deal.

I seriously doubt that EU membership would have had any effect whatsoever on the Status of Russias Black Sea base. As the earlier linked Kharkiv accords illustrated she had the lease till at least 2042 and beyond

So Russia decided to get ahead of the issue. Why can't you see or even understand.. Russia did the only thing it could to preserve those ports for their fleet in which NATO couldn't do **** about

This is a load of conspiracy theory baloney that bears little relation fact
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Only because your lack knowledge when it comes to US/Cuba relations. US seized Guantanamo during the Spanish-American War and only agreed to leave the rest of Cuba if The Platt Amendment was agreed too. The agreement gave the US the right to invoke the right to invade if there is any social uprest. A few years later (1906) when the threat of the loss of Guantanamo became a possibility after the pro-American President Tomás Estrada Palma regime fell, US invaded Cuba for a second time and occupied Cuba for 3 years. During that period Sec of War William H. Taft was named Provisional Governor of Cuba per Platt Amendment. US occupied Cuba several times from 1902-1922. Then in 1933 US supported the overthrow of Gerardo Machado and ended up with Ramon Grau who told the US to bugger off and tore up the Platt Amendment. US then backed Fulgencio Batista who became a dictator and pissed off enough people that lead to the rise of the Castros.

Guantanamo today is part of a lease. US pays Cuba money for the land and usage for the base ever year. Cuba doesn't accept payments so it sits in a bank account at treasury. Cuba also has guarantee from the US that US will not invade Cuba if the lease is not extended in the future (agreement during Cuba Missile Crisis). At some point Guantanamo will be back in Cuban hands as the US is actually using Gitmo in violation of agreed terms.

US itself couldn't legally annex Cuba in 1902 because US Congress said no. Russia on the other hand doesn't mind annexing what was once Russian land. I am not saying Russia didn't "invade" or annexed Crimea, I am just telling you this is NO different then what the US has done several times.

I know the history of Guantanamo and it changes nothing, the twisted logic used by those who support Putin`s aggresion could easily be applied to the USA invading and annexing Cuba, there is no difference.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Absolutely. The hypocrisy of the west here is quiet large. Will the US give Gitmo back? Of course not because the US still sees it as vital to National interests.. Russia was pro active in protecting it's rights in the Black Sea because Russia sees Crimea as vital to their national interests. Can't be any clear then that. You can't expect anybody to just write off their national interest without a fight.

Two wrongs do not make a right!
How far do we stop going back in deciding national borders? 1945? 1939? 1918? 1914? those would be good times for Europe how about 117 AD when half of Europe was part of the Roman empire?
As to Russian intrerests the Black sea fleet was never in any danger but if national intersets are all that count, your previous post about Guantanamo which was very weak and off point just got destroyed by this post.
You cant argue 2 sides at the same time and expect anyone except Kool-ade drinkers to take you seriously.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Thanks for the trolling admission but it really wasn't necessary. My angel ? I'm not religious :cool:

Your not?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

I know the history of Guantanamo and it changes nothing, the twisted logic used by those who support Putin`s aggresion could easily be applied to the USA invading and annexing Cuba, there is no difference.

This goes deep into tinfoil beanie territory doesn't it ? On the one hand its deemed sinister and manipulative for the US to dispense humanitarian aid reconstruction assistence for schools and hospitals, yet on the other its OK for Russian tanks and artillery to invade ,kill Ukrainians and spread terror . Go figure :roll:
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

This goes deep into tinfoil beanie territory doesn't it ? On the one hand its deemed sinister and manipulative for the US to dispense humanitarian aid reconstruction assistence for schools and hospitals, yet on the other its OK for Russian tanks and artillery to invade ,kill Ukrainians and spread terror . Go figure :roll:

How about a report from a Washington political insider, Sen. Ron Paul.
Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International
"Commenting on events leading up to the coup in a column on his website on Sunday, Dr. Paul noted that the coup "was not only supported by US and EU governments – much of it was actually planned by them." The former congressman added that while Ukraine was a deeply divided country prior to the coup, "it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation." Paul lamented that the "interventionist project" on the part of political forces inside the US and the EU turned a very difficult situation into a disaster and "full-out civil war" for Ukraine."
"Dr. Paul describes how, as the political and economic crisis in Ukraine advanced in 2013, "a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating" in protests calling "for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government." He recalls the leaked phone conversation featuring Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland chatting with the US Ambassador to Ukraine about who would and would not enter the new Ukrainian government. Noting the hypocrisy and outright absurdity of it all, the former congressman asks his readers rhetorically to "imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!"

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

This goes deep into tinfoil beanie territory doesn't it ? On the one hand its deemed sinister and manipulative for the US to dispense humanitarian aid reconstruction assistence for schools and hospitals, yet on the other its OK for Russian tanks and artillery to invade ,kill Ukrainians and spread terror . Go figure :roll:

Of course it is because the USA is bad, and everyone else is good, unelss they support the USA.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

How about a report from a Washington political insider, Sen. Ron Paul.
Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International
"Commenting on events leading up to the coup in a column on his website on Sunday, Dr. Paul noted that the coup "was not only supported by US and EU governments – much of it was actually planned by them." The former congressman added that while Ukraine was a deeply divided country prior to the coup, "it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation." Paul lamented that the "interventionist project" on the part of political forces inside the US and the EU turned a very difficult situation into a disaster and "full-out civil war" for Ukraine."
"Dr. Paul describes how, as the political and economic crisis in Ukraine advanced in 2013, "a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating" in protests calling "for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government." He recalls the leaked phone conversation featuring Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland chatting with the US Ambassador to Ukraine about who would and would not enter the new Ukrainian government. Noting the hypocrisy and outright absurdity of it all, the former congressman asks his readers rhetorically to "imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!"

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Aside from that coming from the king of tin foil hat crowd, how if this is even true does it justify Putin secretly invading and annexing part of the Ukraine?
Oh thats right it doesnt, just another attempt to say see the USA is bad therefore Putin is justified in anything he does.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

How about a report from a Washington political insider, Sen. Ron Paul.
Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International
"Commenting on events leading up to the coup in a column on his website on Sunday, Dr. Paul noted that the coup "was not only supported by US and EU governments – much of it was actually planned by them." The former congressman added that while Ukraine was a deeply divided country prior to the coup, "it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation." Paul lamented that the "interventionist project" on the part of political forces inside the US and the EU turned a very difficult situation into a disaster and "full-out civil war" for Ukraine."
"Dr. Paul describes how, as the political and economic crisis in Ukraine advanced in 2013, "a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating" in protests calling "for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government." He recalls the leaked phone conversation featuring Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland chatting with the US Ambassador to Ukraine about who would and would not enter the new Ukrainian government. Noting the hypocrisy and outright absurdity of it all, the former congressman asks his readers rhetorically to "imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!"

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Uh huh . Sputnik international said so, so it must be true right ?

Kremlin Gets a New Media Mouthpiece

Please provide evidence of any material assistence whatsoever that either the US or EU governments provided that assisted the Maidan protesters in facing down Yanukovyches guns
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

How about a report from a Washington political insider, Sen. Ron Paul.
Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International
"Commenting on events leading up to the coup in a column on his website on Sunday, Dr. Paul noted that the coup "was not only supported by US and EU governments – much of it was actually planned by them." The former congressman added that while Ukraine was a deeply divided country prior to the coup, "it is clear that without foreign intervention Ukraine would not be in its current, seemingly hopeless situation." Paul lamented that the "interventionist project" on the part of political forces inside the US and the EU turned a very difficult situation into a disaster and "full-out civil war" for Ukraine."
"Dr. Paul describes how, as the political and economic crisis in Ukraine advanced in 2013, "a steady stream of US and EU politicians were openly participating" in protests calling "for the overthrow of the Ukrainian government." He recalls the leaked phone conversation featuring Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland chatting with the US Ambassador to Ukraine about who would and would not enter the new Ukrainian government. Noting the hypocrisy and outright absurdity of it all, the former congressman asks his readers rhetorically to "imagine if a foreign leader like Putin or Assad came to Washington to encourage protesters to overthrow the Obama Administration!"

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Read more: Ron Paul: US, EU Behind Ukraine Coup / Sputnik International

Uh huh . Sputnik international said so, so it must be true right ?

Kremlin Gets a New Media Mouthpiece

Please provide evidence of any material assistence whatsoever that either the US or EU governments provided that assisted the Maidan protesters in facing down Yanukovyches guns ?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Aside from that coming from the king of tin foil hat crowd, how if this is even true does it justify Putin secretly invading and annexing part of the Ukraine?
Oh thats right it doesnt, just another attempt to say see the USA is bad therefore Putin is justified in anything he does.

No, it is information from a Washington insider. Adjust your hat, the tin foil has corroded and your reception doesn't seem to be working.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Uh huh . Sputnik international said so, so it must be true right ?

Kremlin Gets a New Media Mouthpiece

Please provide evidence of any material assistence whatsoever that either the US or EU governments provided that assisted the Maidan protesters in facing down Yanukovyches guns

I gotcha'. If I dumped a gallon of crap on your head, you would say, "I don't see any crap."
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

No, it is information from a Washington insider. Adjust your hat, the tin foil has corroded and your reception doesn't seem to be working.

Ron Paul is a tinfoil hat wearign nutjob the fact that he is in washingotn doesnt change anything.
You missed the main point however
Hw if this is even true does it justify Putin secretly invading and annexing part of the Ukraine?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

No, it is information from a Washington insider. Adjust your hat, the tin foil has corroded and your reception doesn't seem to be working.

Insider to what exactly ? Ron Paul has never met any of the protagonists he talks about so his is just another opinion at odds with reality and devoid of evidence

I notice you didn't answer my question ?
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Ron Paul is a tinfoil hat wearign nutjob the fact that he is in washingotn doesnt change anything.
You missed the main point however
Hw if this is even true does it justify Putin secretly invading and annexing part of the Ukraine?

I want to see photographic evidence of this invasion that you talk about. Remember that Russia had an agreement with Ukraine that allowed 25,000 + troops to be stationed in Crimea. If these are the troops that you are referring to, it does not constitute an invasion. Also, the Crimea voted to approve annexation with an 80% voter participation rate. Poroshenko and our toadies are in charge in Kiev with an 18% of eligible voters approval. Kiev has increased energy prices, lowered pensions, cut employment, started a war causing the deaths of thousands, compromised the patrimony of the people of Ukraine, has not investigated the Kiev sniper deaths, the Hyrvnia has lost most of its' value, and much of the leadership depends on Nazi groups for muscle.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Insider to what exactly ? Ron Paul has never met any of the protagonists he talks about so his is just another opinion at odds with reality and devoid of evidence

I notice you didn't answer my question ?

ex-Senator Ron Paul. Inside the US gov't at the highest levels. Congressional insider. That is reality.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

ex-Senator Ron Paul. Inside the US gov't at the highest levels. Congressional insider. That is reality.

When has he ever been involved with US foreign policy regarding Russia or Ukraine then ? What committees has he chaired given he retired two years ago ?
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

I want to see photographic evidence of this invasion that you talk about. Remember that Russia had an agreement with Ukraine that allowed 25,000 + troops to be stationed in Crimea.
Who removed their insignia left their bases and used their military force to take over the crimea.
Even Putin admits this is what happened now why are you even trying to deny it?

If these are the troops that you are referring to, it does not constitute an invasion.
Yes it does.
Same as if US forces left their bases in soem other country and used their military force to take over.
Also, the Crimea voted to approve annexation with an 80% voter participation rate.
After they were taken over militarily by Russia. Sorry no one considers any vote done at gunpoint to be valid.
Poroshenko and our toadies are in charge in Kiev with an 18% of eligible voters approval. Kiev has increased energy prices, lowered pensions, cut employment, started a war causing the deaths of thousands, compromised the patrimony of the people of Ukraine, has not investigated the Kiev sniper deaths, the Hyrvnia has lost most of its' value, and much of the leadership depends on Nazi groups for muscle.
None of that is any excuse for Putin to secretly invade and annex part of another country.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

54.7 times .90 times .60 equals 29%. Fudge for the missing voters and you'll come up with 18%

BS

The voter turnout in the last US election was less than that in Ukraine even allowing for the 9% in the combat zones who couldnt vote so deal with it :roll:

http://www.osce.org/odihr/elections/ukraine/119271

If you don't like the numbers then take them up with the OSCE monitors who collated them
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

One quite naturally proceeds the other. Pity you don't understand that.

And yet still no explanation of how the EU equates to NATO, not all EU member states are members of NATO, not all NATO members are members of the EU, not all NATO members joined the EU before they joined NATO so you're just spouting absolute nonsense.
 
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