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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Both countries had been courting Ukraine for years, in the end Ukraine decided that there'd get a better deal with Russia then they would with the US/West. It's only then that Western intrigue kicked in full speed. Putin is responding, and not the aggressor.
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No Putin bribed/coerced Yanukovych to make a 180 and turn away from Europe towards Russia. This led to his own party tossing him out. Putin having failed to achieve his ends through covert illegal diplomatic means then used covert military means to reach his objective.
It had nothing to do with the US and Putin is the aggressor, he began the meddling with bribes to a corrupt politician to change the political course of the country then went into a military invasion when his intrigues failed.
Stop peddling BS nonsense and pretending Putin is lilly white he is 100% responsible.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

MrFirst said:
Doesn't matter how long time you would waste on studying the subject as it's clear your knowledge about it is less than zero anyway.

Even here not so often one can watch such a bulk of b******.
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I'm sure this sentiment makes sense amongst members of Putin's cult of personality but amongst the reality based community, not so much. So about that bridge guys, do I have a deal for you!
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
Why are you selective in the credence you give to the UN. The UN also has a slew of NB resolutions against Israel, but suddenly the UN doesn't know what they're talking about there.
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A) Care to provide evidence for my "selective credence" to the UNGA?

B) The UNSC vote unanimously to condemn the war criminal Putin, even China abstained which was tantamount to a yes vote.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

MrFirst said:
Russians also made Ukro-nazis to burn people alive in Odessa, also to kill 100 people in Kiev, also to bomb Lugansk regional government on July 2 last year, and also Russians forced Ukrainian troops to commit many war crimes like shelling cities with cluster bombs and rockets, killing kids, oldmen, women...

I understand this is funny for you. But not for me.
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Since Putin came to power there has been a long and often sinister catalogue of Russian interference in Ukrainian internal affairs leading up to the current conflict. And indeed you are right it isn't funny
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
No Putin bribed/coerced Yanukovych to make a 180 and turn away from Europe towards Russia. This led to his own party tossing him out. Putin having failed to achieve his ends through covert illegal diplomatic means then used covert military means to reach his objective.
It had nothing to do with the US and Putin is the aggressor, he began the meddling with bribes to a corrupt politician to change the political course of the country then went into a military invasion when his intrigues failed.
Stop peddling BS nonsense and pretending Putin is lilly white he is 100% responsible.
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I've never characterised Putin as such. No politicians are Lilly White, not even the ones you like.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
I've never characterised Putin as such. No politicians are Lilly White, not even the ones you like.
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Putin is 100% at fault here but you keep pretending he isn't.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

This really has become German expansion in the 1930s - and the exact same rational. To protect "ethnic" Russians - which is the result of Russians moved into the region plus defining anyone who knows the Russian language as Russian. Many so-called Russians in Ukraine are not Ukraine citizens. This is the same as Hitler's expansion claiming it was to protect ethnic Germans.

Putin want's Ukraine's vital industrial East. With it, Russia can continue to pursue reforming the Soviet Union as the dominate superpower. Without it, that goal could not be obtained.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Why doesn’t the Ukrainian military participate in Ukrainian attacks?

It has been a month since the resumption of combat operations, and one can start drawing conclusions.

I already noted that the UAF are unwilling to attack. It was perfectly evident at the Donetsk Airport (the 93rd Brigade which conducted active operations incorporated three territorial battalions of volunteers into its structure, therefore its “eagerness”, combined with the eagerness of brigade commander Mikats, is fully understandable).

But it’s downhill from there. UAF units (the old, regular units, even though that’s not always the correct description) have stopped being noticed among the counter-attacking forces. The last time they were active was on the Bakhmutka (the 28th Brigade).

All counter-attacks around Debaltsevo were launched by “volunteers.” Yesterday UAF units DELIBERATELY opted not to launch a suicidal attack, which greatly “disturbed” Semenchenko.

Likewise the most recent “attack” around Mariupol was launched only by Azov. Even though there are many UAF units nearby. Including a tank battalion. It’s a strange attack. In general one gets the impression that the operation does not concern the UAF at all, and maybe it was not even coordinated with it.
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Why doesn’t the Ukrainian military participate in Ukrainian attacks? - Fort Russ
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Don't trust Russian propaganda? Time will tell. Soon.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

face said:
First of all even if the Ukraine wanted to join NATO that is their right as a sovereign nation, and second of all the EU is not NATO.
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:attn1: See below:
flogger said:
What if Ukraine wanted to join the EU and NATO of her own free will and belligerent intent had nothing to do with it ?
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I have already given you the answer before, and you ignore it when reality will never ignore the truth.

No person nor any Country is an island, as we all have neighbors who have a say in our business whether anyone likes it or not.

The Ukraine does not have any right or option to become hostile to its neighbor Russia without facing the repercussions.

They possibly could act independently if their was no belligerence (perceived or intended) but in the reality of this case with the USA being the warmonger Country of the entire planet earth, so then any alignment of the Ukraine to the USA is automatically hostile and belligerent even if the Ukraine is too blind or stupid to know that.


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face said:
Thirteen of the Council's 15 members voted in favour of the draft text, Russia voted against, and China abstained. A veto by any of the Council's five permanent members – China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom and the United States – means a resolution cannot be adopted.
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The resolution was rightfully rejected and now it is dead.

Duh.

face said:
So we are all safe and alive because Putin hasn't launched a nuclear strike in response to economic sanctions? Is that what you mean by this nonsensical statement? Gee I guess we should all be grateful for dear leaders magnanimity
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The sanctions against Russia are unjust and naive, so yes they are tolerating our immature hostilities.

And prior to 1945 the USA had unjust sanctions against Japan which prompted Japan to launch their first strike against our Pearl Harbor.

So the USA might do better if we learn from history, instead of repeating our mistakes.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
I have already given you the answer before, and you ignore it when reality will never ignore the truth.
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You ignore the truth that Ukraine has the democratic right to determine its own destiny. I couldn't care less if you feel that destiny conflicts with your wishes

No person nor any Country is an island, as we all have neighbors who have a say in our business whether anyone likes it or not.
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Tell that to the Israelis, Cubans ,Taiwanese and South Koreans

The Ukraine does not have any right or option to become hostile to its neighbor Russia without facing the repercussions.
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Show any evidence of this Ukranian hostility since it became independent in 1991 ?

They possibly could act independently if their was no belligerence (perceived or intended) but in the reality of this case with the USA being the warmonger Country of the entire planet earth, so then any alignment of the Ukraine to the USA is automatically hostile and belligerent even if the Ukraine is too blind or stupid to know that.
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Still waiting for your evidence of this US 'warmongering' in Ukraine ?

The sanctions against Russia are unjust and naive, so yes they are tolerating our immature hostilities.
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Rather than the US mythical hostilities here what about Russian actual hostilities or do they just get a free pass because you hope it will upset the West if they do ?

And prior to 1945 the USA had unjust sanctions against Japan which prompted Japan to launch their first strike against our Pearl Harbor.
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Nothing to do with the fact that Japan were murdering millions of innocents in a barbarous war of conquest in China ? The US had warned the Japanese multiple times to end this conflict since it started it in 1937 and that there would be economic consequences but was ignored.

So the USA might do better if we learn from history, instead of repeating our mistakes.
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Appeasing dictators hasn't tended to work too well in the past and it won't again this time yet thats exactly the mistake you want it to make
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
Putin is 100% at fault here but you keep pretending he isn't.
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Not pretending, saying!
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

joko104 said:
This really has become German expansion in the 1930s - and the exact same rational. To protect "ethnic" Russians - which is the result of Russians moved into the region plus defining anyone who knows the Russian language as Russian. Many so-called Russians in Ukraine are not Ukraine citizens. This is the same as Hitler's expansion claiming it was to protect ethnic Germans.

Putin want's Ukraine's vital industrial East. With it, Russia can continue to pursue reforming the Soviet Union as the dominate superpower. Without it, that goal could not be obtained.
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Germany 1930's/Hitler the epitome of hyperbole.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

MrFirst said:
There was united Ukraine until Kiev government started bombardments of its of eastern cities.
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The Rebels are the ones killing the most civilians.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Getting sick of Putin
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Roadvirus said:
China supports Russia's illegal and murderous ways? Shocking.
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What's shocking is that your blind to what you accuse Putin of when it happens in your own government. But then, that's The patronising American way. No, what's shocking is that it escapes you that the government of China could have better knowledge than you of what's gone down in Ukraine.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Montecresto said:
What's shocking is that your blind to what you accuse Putin of when it happens in your own government. But then, that's The patronising American way. No, what's shocking is that it escapes you that the government of China could have better knowledge than you of what's gone down in Ukraine.
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As you were shown earlier I seriously doubt that any US administration has ever been quite as sinister or corrupt as the one currently occupying the Kremlin
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
As you were shown earlier I seriously doubt that any US administration has ever been quite as sinister or corrupt as the one currently occupying the Kremlin
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All I was shown was an opinion. On this issue (Ukraine) Putin isn't the evil you're painting.
 
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