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U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan' [W:479]

Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Fearandloathing said:
Two plus two equals four is an opinion?

This is classic socialist relativism, suddenly Obama is giving an "opinion" when he says "you can keep your plan...." and the evidence of a ballistics expert in court is also an opinion.

Everything is an opinion so that it can't be a lie...when "you can keep your plan, as opinion OR facts was absolutely WRONG....but it opinion wrong so that's OK, let's elect another one just like him.

I have two words for that: Bull and ****
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That is your opinion.

Of course I do not mean anything negative by calling it as your opinion, as I try hard to respect the opinions of others even when they are wrong.

We all really do have the same FACTS and we each just interpret the facts in our own different ways.

And an honest opinion is never a lie even when the opinion is dead wrong, because being mistaken is not a lie.

What the right-wing warmongers on this thread are doing is being honest but their honesty is based on their cruel and cold perception.

They take the facts and interpret the facts into their warmongering and their hateful ideas and the BIGGEST problem with them is that they are being honest in their cold cruel opinions.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
That is your opinion.

Of course I do not mean anything negative by calling it as your opinion, as I try hard to respect the opinions of others even when they are wrong.

We all really do have the same FACTS and we each just interpret the facts in our own different ways.

And an honest opinion is never a lie even when the opinion is dead wrong, because being mistaken is not a lie.

What the right-wing warmongers on this thread are doing is being honest but their honesty is based on their cruel and cold perception.

They take the facts and interpret the facts into their warmongering and their hateful ideas and the BIGGEST problem with them is that they are being honest in their cold cruel opinions.
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I have no ****ing idea what you are trying to say...it reads like a first year college essay where no studying has been done
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Fearandloathing said:
I have no ****ing idea what you are trying to say...it reads like a first year college essay where no studying has been done
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Get used to it :(

This guy has had it clearly explained to him the difference between what is fact and what is opinion yet still subjectively chooses to conflate the two This is something even a child would understand.
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Get used to it :(

This guy has had it clearly explained to him the difference between what is fact and what is opinion yet still subjectively chooses to conflate the two This is something even a child would understand.
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I have another option than getting used to it.

There's always the guy at the dinner party who will interject with verbiage to sound intelligent not realizing the conversation was intended to be entertainment; not a sophomoric exercise in philosophical masturbation laden with cliche'
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

The Donetsk rebels shelled their own territory once again:



BBC reporters got under fire in Donetsk airport.
 
face said:
He doesn't have to because it's not read by 99.999999999999% of the population.
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Uhhh....yeah.

According to your math, less then one person in Russia reads the Russian Times?

Okaaaaaaaay.
 
DA60 said:
Uhhh....yeah.

According to your math, less then one person in Russia reads the Russian Times?

Okaaaaaaaay.
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A) The Moscow Times.

B) It only has a circulation of 35,000, is not available on newstands, and is primarily read by Western Ex-Pats not native Russians. By my math .02% of the Russian population reads the Moscow Times. 35000 divided by 146 million.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
This guy has had it clearly explained to him the difference between what is fact and what is opinion yet still subjectively chooses to conflate the two
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Well that is your opinion.

The problem is just that you are presenting your own opinions as the facts, while your own opinions are not the facts.

There is an old name for that perspective which is called self-righteousness.

As in you are being self-righteous.

So yes I do understand your pompous explanation, and it is simply wrong.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
Well that is your opinion.
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No thats a fact

The problem is just that you are presenting your own opinions as the facts, while your own opinions are not the facts.
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No I'm presenting my facts as facts. If they are not then be sure to let me know specifically which one I have misrepresented

So yes I do understand your pompous explanation, and it is simply wrong.
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Given you still do not know the difference between fact and opinion (despite my pains to explain it for you as simply as I can) I'm more than happy to let others judge that for themselves.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
BS stop lying.
Putin bribed coerced Yanukovych to refuse Euromaidan and insted try to seek closer ties to Russia. His own party ousted him and he fled to Russia.
When Putin had failed to get Ukraine this way he invaided using tropps who had removed their insignia, denying it for weeks until he had full control.
It had nothing to do with the US and everything to do with Putin.
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Yanukovych was illegally impeached under the Ukrainian Constitution. They failed to meet the 75% threshold.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

austrianecon said:
Yanukovych was illegally impeached under the Ukrainian Constitution. They failed to meet the 75% threshold.
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If you want to talk about illegalities I'm pretty sure the Ukrainian constitution didn't allow him to do this

Prosecutor: Yanukovych's 'Mafia' Government Stole Up To $100 Billion From Ukraine And Some Of It Is Funding Rebels - Business Insider

Which then explains this

BBC News - Ukraine ex-leader Yanukovych wanted by Interpol

When you understand his level of corruption you'll understand why he was overthrown. Do you think (like Putin) he would ever have allowed power to slip from his grasp democratically ?
 
Simpleχity;1064322975 said:
Lol. The Moscow Times is owned by Sanoma Oyj which is headquartered in Helsinki, Finland.
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Sanoma Oyj is Finland largest media company and has it hands in SEVERAL NATO countries. Irony here is you don't even know who was the largest owner in Sanoma.. Erkko family and they have a pretty big history in Finland and Russian relations. Erkko family is very anti-Russian.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
If you want to talk about illegalities I'm pretty sure the Ukrainian constitution didn't allow him to do this

Prosecutor: Yanukovych's 'Mafia' Government Stole Up To $100 Billion From Ukraine And Some Of It Is Funding Rebels - Business Insider

Which then explains this

BBC News - Ukraine ex-leader Yanukovych wanted by Interpol

When you understand his level of corruption you'll understand why he was overthrown. Do you think (like Putin) he would ever have allowed power to slip from his grasp democratically ?
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And I am sure the Ukrainian constitution DOESN'T allow for overthrows either. Ukraine has ALWAYS been corrupt. Government before Yanukovych was just as corrupt. Vitaly Yarema (Chief Prosecutor) who's making the claims is dirty as hell too. He ran the Ministry of Internal Affairs from 2005-2010. And he was just ran out of his office.

So welcome to Eastern European politics.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

austrianecon said:
And I am sure the Ukrainian constitution DOESN'T allow for overthrows either. Ukraine has ALWAYS been corrupt. Government before Yanukovych was just as corrupt. Vitaly Yarema (Chief Prosecutor) who's making the claims is dirty as hell too. He ran the Ministry of Internal Affairs from 2005-2010. And he was just ran out of his office.

So welcome to Eastern European politics.
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Yes indeed, but its the scale of the corruption and theft in this instance that marks it out. The sums involved here represent sizeable percentages of the countries GDP hence the subsequent Interpol involvement
 
austrianecon said:
Sanoma Oyj is Finland largest media company and has it hands in SEVERAL NATO countries. Irony here is you don't even know who was the largest owner in Sanoma.. Erkko family and they have a pretty big history in Finland and Russian relations. Erkko family is very anti-Russian.
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Previous Sanoma major stakeholders Aatos Erkko and his wife Jane Erkko are both deceased. They had no children. Their personal fortune is now administered by the Jane and Aatos Erkko Foundation which supports high-level international research, the arts, and culture via donations, grants, and scholarships. Sanoma Oyj is a publicly owned company and the current CEO and Chairman of the Executive Management Group is Harri-Pekka Kaukonen.

PS. Of course Aatos Erkko was anti-Russian. His father - Eljas Erkko - was a Finnish Foreign Minister who attempted to negotiate with the Soviets (unsuccessfully because the demands were too high). This led to the Russia-Finland Winter War (1939–1940). Aatos Erkko was also anti-American who railed against global US hegemony. On multiple occasions, he called the politics of the Bush government dangerous and the invasion of Iraq as a breach of international law. Erkko was instrumental in seeing Finland join the EU. With Russian aggression once again threatening Europe, Finland is now considering joining the NATO alliance.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

austrianecon said:
Yanukovych was illegally impeached under the Ukrainian Constitution. They failed to meet the 75% threshold.
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Nothing I said was incorrect.
How does an internal Ukrainian situation give Putin the right to secretly invade and annex part of another country?
 
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Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
No thats a fact

No I'm presenting my facts as facts. If they are not then be sure to let me know specifically which one I have misrepresented

Given you still do not know the difference between fact and opinion (despite my pains to explain it for you as simply as I can) I'm more than happy to let others judge that for themselves.
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That is your opinion.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
Not when its qualified by established fact.
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No, it is still just your opinion, and nothing else.

But opinions do count, and sharing opinions is what make for a discussion to happen.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
No, it is still just your opinion, and nothing else.

But opinions do count, and sharing opinions is what make for a discussion to happen.
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If you cannot make the simple differentiation between fact and opinion then there really isn't a lot more I can add. :(
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

flogger said:
If you cannot make the simple differentiation between fact and opinion then there really isn't a lot more I can add. :(
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I really did tell the difference in several comments posted in this thread.

The one comment that I say demonstrates the difference the best is this one # 610 linked here =

So yes I do indeed know the difference between opinion and fact.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

JP Cusick said:
I really did tell the difference in several comments posted in this thread.

The one comment that I say demonstrates the difference the best is this one # 610 linked here =

So yes I do indeed know the difference between opinion and fact.
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I'm more than happy to let others be the judge of that based on your input to date so perhaps you should stop digging. :cool:
 
Simpleχity;1064334153 said:
Previous Sanoma major stakeholders Aatos Erkko and his wife Jane Erkko are both deceased. They had no children. Their personal fortune is now administered by the Jane and Aatos Erkko Foundation which supports high-level international research, the arts, and culture via donations, grants, and scholarships. Sanoma Oyj is a publicly owned company and the current CEO and Chairman of the Executive Management Group is Harri-Pekka Kaukonen.
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Actually, the Erkko estate owns 30% plus in voting shares. You know like Murdoch owns a controlling majority of News Corp is established in Delware which only requires 33% ownership to establish majority.

Simpleχity;1064334153 said:
PS. Of course Aatos Erkko was anti-Russian. His father - Eljas Erkko - was a Finnish Foreign Minister who attempted to negotiate with the Soviets (unsuccessfully because the demands were too high). This led to the Russia-Finland Winter War (1939–1940). Aatos Erkko was also anti-American who railed against global US hegemony. On multiple occasions, he called the politics of the Bush government dangerous and the invasion of Iraq as a breach of international law. Erkko was instrumental in seeing Finland join the EU. With Russian aggression once again threatening Europe, Finland is now considering joining the NATO alliance.
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It goes further back the Eljas Erkko to his father, Eero who was a leading member of the Young Finnish Party and then the National Progressive Party. Aatos Erkko wasn't anti-American in any real sense and sure as hell supported Finnish move to the EU and NATO because it benefited his company. Arguing against US hegemony and against the invasion of Iraq doesn't make you anti-American. It's Common sense. But it never stopped him working for the CIA. He was named by Robert Trumbull Crowley who use to be Assistant Deputy Director for Operations (second in charge of National Clandestine Service) named him (Aatos Erkko) as a source. A source for the CIA is a person who can influence CIA's position or be used by the CIA to push their position (print lies or fake news).

So here you are trying to hold up Moscow Times as your source without even know Aatos Erkko was a CIA source and named one by second in charge of the NCS.
 
Re: U.S.: Putin's Peace Proposal for Ukraine is Nothing But 'Occupation Plan'

Quag said:
Nothing I said was incorrect.
How does an internal Ukrainian situation give Putin the right to secretly invade and annex part of another country?
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Nor did I say other wise, but nothing a I said was either.

Invade? Russian troops have always been stationed in Crimea since 1991 per agreement.
 
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