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Family: Lakewood church stops woman's funeral because she was gay

Jack Fabulous said:
Knock yourself out.

There is no doubt more to this story than what has been posted in this thread. The OP was pretty much just an account from the family of the deceased and the other was a paraphrase of his words. If it turns out that the pastor just canned the ceremony in mid-stream because he saw a photo that offended him then that would certainly change my opinion.
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There you go:
Family: Church in Lakewood stops woman's funeral because she was gay - The Denver Post

I use whatever info I have at hand to debate things here. This is the info I have on hand.
 
Lursa said:
Yeah, context is everything. Like adultery. Who knows? Why assume it's not innocent? Why assume the 2 women kissing are in a 'relationship.'
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:shrug: given that that was, in fact, the case, I imagine it was made pretty plain.

Apparently these women were not even affiliated with the church. No one would have known.
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Yup. Unfortunate, all around. No one is a winner here.

And Churches are not called upon to judge and certainly not to mete out punishment. THey may observe and call out sin....but the consequences are, according to the Bible, left up to God.
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Churches are called upon explicitly to judge actions, and the "punishment" (as much as it is one) they are directed to mete out is exclusion from the Church.

Matthew 18 said:
15 “If your brother or sister sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
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nota bene said:
I agree: Nobody should be forced to violate his conscience, and I do agree that the pastor didn't create the problem. But I can't imagine stopping a funeral midway. Have you ever attended such a funeral? I haven't. Actually, I've never even attended a wedding during which someone had an answer to that question about there being any reason that this man and this woman should not be joined.

I think it's awful, and I am sorry for all concerned.
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The funeral was not stopped midway.
The showing was done at the funeral home and the day of the funeral, the funeral home simply moved the casket and everything else that was in the showing room to the church across the street and set things up. that's normally how it is done. After everything was set up, the family wanted the video of pictures usually provided as a service of the funeral home to be played during the service. The church asked for the video to be edited in order to proceed. The family refused to take the pictures out the church requested. After that the pastor said no. . So everything that was set up at the church was removed and sent back to the funeral home where the service took place. Most funerals are held at the funeral home. But according to the OP the funeral home did not have a big enough room to accommodate the number of people attending the funeral which eventually took place there and the complaints were there was not enough room and many had to stand. But the church across the street did have the seating needed. Unfortunately, they were not willing to abide by the church's requirements.
 
digsbe said:
It's completely reasonable for an organization that owns the building and is permitting them to use it to set standards for what goes on on their property. What's insulting is using a space, completely disrespecting and disregarding the beliefs and rules of the establishment and being unwilling to comply when a host makes a reasonable request like "please don't display this picture because we find it violates X." Just because someone died and they are mourning doesn't give them license to disrespect the property of others nor is anyone or any institution under obligation to bend their morals or rules to accommodate others that don't want to respect such things. I wouldn't expect to have my funeral in a mosque and have the imams and clerics allow my family to display crosses or images depicting Christ as the Son of God or things that they find blasphemous.



I would agree, I think from a Christian perspective, if expectations weren't given prior to the funeral that out of mercy they should have allowed it while not condoning such a lifestyle or marriage. However, as far as the request or decision of the church being unreasonable, I don't think that it was. I think they were within their rights and the fault is on those refusing to comply with the rules or requests of the host.
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Having been raised in a church - I dismissed that notion entirely that the church leaders, after agreeing to host a funeral, has any right to dictate what they do during the service.

My father is paid in donations for the funerals he gives the Eulogies at - and he never would dare stick his nose into the issues that are expressly up to the family to decide. The church's role during a funeral is to provide comfort and emotional support and ensure the funeral services runs fluidly and smoothly. If he feels that any event should not be held on church grounds he will assist any family that comes to him in a time of need with setting up alternative arrangements.

Because as a minister he's a nice and decent person and is not out to stab stakes into the hearts of people.
 
disneydude said:
You are confusing "can" with "should"....there are a lot of things that people "Can" do....but just because you can doesn't always mean that you should.....just sayin.
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Fair point. IMO gays should not belong to anti-gay churches. Frankly I think gays bring some of this down on themselves. You don't see blacks applying to the KKK.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Having been raised in a church - I dismissed that notion entirely that the church leaders, after agreeing to host a funeral, has any right to dictate what they do during the service.
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There seems to be indications that the church agreed to host the service- under certain conditions. These conditions apparently included the requirement that the material to be displayed will be screened by the pastor, and that there was no guarantee that the material will be permitted to be displayed.

Furthermore, the totality of the conditions appeared to be pretty nominal. Nobody demanded that certain passages condeming homosexuality be read at the funeral. Likewise, the conditions did not require that participants affirm church teachings regarding homosexuality. In contrast, most of the material was allowed to be displayed.

The family then chose not to adhere to those conditions, and then made other arrangements. CNN, of course, hyped the story.
 
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Amandi said:
If there were groundrules it WOULD change my opinion and that is why I am asking people to provide proof.
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"However, the family did not receive any word that they would be turned away until 15 minutes after the memorial service was already scheduled to begin."
Lakewood Church Refuses to Host Lesbian Funeral - World Religion News
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
Why did the family choose to hold this woman's funeral at a church that did not support or agree with this woman's life? If you ask me, it is a slap in the face to someone that is gay or lesbian to hold their funeral at a anti-gay church.

It is not as though there are not plenty of denominations out there that are tolerant and accepting of gays and lesbians so why not hold the funeral at one of them?
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There is no dispute over the facts except by a few liars posting in this thread.
  • The family only rented the space and used their own pastor.
  • A week before the event the church's pastor was given a copy of the video that they planned to show.
  • He did not look at it. He did not provide the family with any rules related to his anti-gay taboo.
  • Fifteen minutes after the scheduled start time the church's pastor voiced his objection to a photo of the deceased with her partner shown in the video and told them to edit out the photo. (which was not possible at the time)
  • When they showed the video he halted the event.
  • Later, the pastor apologized.

I have other posts with quotes and links to a few more articles that verify this information. None of the many articles I looked at dispute the facts.
 
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VanceMack said:
I completely agree. I think that was the churches position. Remove a few pictures and the ceremony goes forward. The family refused. Sad.
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It was a video that showed a photo that the pastor objected to fifteen minutes after the event was scheduled to begin. (even though he had the video a week in advance.)
 
vesper said:
The funeral was not stopped midway.
The showing was done at the funeral home and the day of the funeral, the funeral home simply moved the casket and everything else that was in the showing room to the church across the street and set things up. that's normally how it is done. After everything was set up, the family wanted the video of pictures usually provided as a service of the funeral home to be played during the service. The church asked for the video to be edited in order to proceed. The family refused to take the pictures out the church requested. After that the pastor said no. . So everything that was set up at the church was removed and sent back to the funeral home where the service took place. Most funerals are held at the funeral home. But according to the OP the funeral home did not have a big enough room to accommodate the number of people attending the funeral which eventually took place there and the complaints were there was not enough room and many had to stand. But the church across the street did have the seating needed. Unfortunately, they were not willing to abide by the church's requirements.
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The pastor's request to edit the video was given to the family fifteen minutes after the scheduled start of the event.
 
Hard Truth said:
It was a video that showed a photo that the pastor objected to fifteen minutes after the event was scheduled to begin. (even though he had the video a week in advance.)
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Theres a lot of misinformation and differing positions offered. The CNN and USA today articles say the video was given a day in advance but was misplaced. The replacement video was brought over prior to the ceremony. They also state the video was viewed before the ceremony and the family was given ample time to remove 2 pictures. They refused.

Out of curiosity...had the pastor seen it a day in advance (or a week in advance) and made the same direction, do you think we would be reading today of protests because the pastor insisted they remove the photos? Just a speculative question...no need to answer if you dont want to.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Having been raised in a church - I dismissed that notion entirely that the church leaders, after agreeing to host a funeral, has any right to dictate what they do during the service.

My father is paid in donations for the funerals he gives the Eulogies at - and he never would dare stick his nose into the issues that are expressly up to the family to decide. The church's role during a funeral is to provide comfort and emotional support and ensure the funeral services runs fluidly and smoothly. If he feels that any event should not be held on church grounds he will assist any family that comes to him in a time of need with setting up alternative arrangements.

Because as a minister he's a nice and decent person and is not out to stab stakes into the hearts of people.
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Making it even worse, the family only rented the space and provided their own pastor.
 
SheWolf said:
No, it's not in the link in the OP. If there is another site, then link that site. The link in the OP also says that the pastor has not reimbursed the family after stopping the funeral and kicking them out.
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Once again, quit playing and read the thread and the OP. The info asked for is there. Who cares, the pastor probably shouldn't reimburse them.
 
Jerry said:
Fair point. IMO gays should not belong to anti-gay churches. Frankly I think gays bring some of this down on themselves. You don't see blacks applying to the KKK.
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The family only rented the space and provided their own pastor. They did not know about the church's anti-gay taboo until fifteen minutes after the scheduled start of the event.
 
VanceMack said:
Theres a lot of misinformation and differing positions offered. The CNN and USA today articles say the video was given a day in advance but was misplaced. The replacement video was brought over prior to the ceremony. They also state the video was viewed before the ceremony and the family was given ample time to remove 2 pictures. They refused.

Out of curiosity...had the pastor seen it a day in advance (or a week in advance) and made the same direction, do you think we would be reading today of protests because the pastor insisted they remove the photos? Just a speculative question...no need to answer if you dont want to.
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The articles I saw said the video was provided a week in advance. They were told to edit the video 15 minutes after the scheduled start time of the event. I have worked as a professional video editor. Removing a segment of a video and burning a new DVD would take approx 1.5 hours to do, not including transportation time to the editing facility.


"Friends say they gave the church a remembrance video of Collier a week before that contained images of her kissing and embracing her wife. The pastor had every chance to stop the funeral long before it began, they said."
Family: Church in Lakewood stops woman's funeral because she was gay - The Denver Post
 
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paddymcdougall said:
Pretty sure the church has been burying gays and lesbians since, well, the church began.....
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Ones that kept their mouths shut about it, yes. The one who didn't, no - they got the unconsecreated ground.
 
Cryptic said:
There seems to be indications that the church agreed to host the service- under certain conditions. These conditions apparently included the requirement that the material to be displayed will be screened by the pastor, and that there was no guarantee that the material will be permitted to be displayed.

Furthermore, the totality of the conditions appeared to be pretty nominal. Nobody demanded that certain passages condeming homosexuality be read at the funeral. Likewise, the conditions did not require that participants affirm church teachings regarding homosexuality. In contrast, most of the material was allowed to be displayed.

The family then chose not to adhere to those conditions, and then made other arrangements. CNN, of course, hyped the story.
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There is no dispute over the facts except by a few liars posting in this thread.

The family only rented the space and used their own pastor.
A week before the event the church's pastor was given a copy of the video that they planned to show.
He did not look at it. He did not provide the family with any rules related to his anti-gay taboo.
Fifteen minutes after the scheduled start time the church's pastor voiced his objection to a photo of the deceased with her partner shown in the video and told them to edit out the photo. (which was not possible at the time)
When they showed the video he halted the event.
Later, the pastor apologized.



I have other posts with quotes and links to a few more articles that verify this information. None of the many articles I looked at dispute the facts.
 
Hard Truth said:
The articles I saw said the video was provided a week in advance. They were told to edit the video 15 minutes after the scheduled start time of the event. I have worked as a professional video editor. Removing a segment of a video and burning a new DVD would take approx 1.5 hours to do, not including transportation time to the editing facility.


"Friends say they gave the church a remembrance video of Collier a week before that contained images of her kissing and embracing her wife. The pastor had every chance to stop the funeral long before it began, they said."
Family: Church in Lakewood stops woman's funeral because she was gay - The Denver Post
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'Friends say'. ALWAYS the most reliable sources.

Regardless...they WERE given a chance to remove the pictures BEFORE the service was to start. They chose not to.
 
Hard Truth said:
There is no dispute over the facts except by a few liars posting in this thread.

The family only rented the space and used their own pastor.
A week before the event the church's pastor was given a copy of the video that they planned to show.
He did not look at it. He did not provide the family with any rules related to his anti-gay taboo.
Fifteen minutes after the scheduled start time the church's pastor voiced his objection to a photo of the deceased with her partner shown in the video and told them to edit out the photo. (which was not possible at the time)
When they showed the video he halted the event.
Later, the pastor apologized.



I have other posts with quotes and links to a few more articles that verify this information. None of the many articles I looked at dispute the facts.
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Actually...thats not what was reported. What was reported was that the family came out and announced the ceremony was to be moved due to 'technical difficulties' 15 minutes after it was scheduled to start.
 
Seems kind of silly, if true. A dead person has no sexuality. And if you are a church and believe in God, then the person being dead is already being judged, so why continue the ignorance here?
 
whysoserious said:
Seems kind of silly, if true. A dead person has no sexuality. And if you are a church and believe in God, then the person being dead is already being judged, so why continue the ignorance here?
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Condemn the 'sin' but love the 'sinner'....right?
 
VanceMack said:
Actually...thats not what was reported. What was reported was that the family came out and announced the ceremony was to be moved due to 'technical difficulties' 15 minutes after it was scheduled to start.
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"...An hour-long viewing of Collier's body had just finished and the memorial service was 15 minutes underway when Chavez stopped it, those in attendance said."

Friends say they gave the church a remembrance video of Collier a week before that contained images of her kissing and embracing her wife. The pastor had every chance to stop the funeral long before it began, they said..."
http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_2...-church-refuses-funeral-service-because-woman

"...The pastor who called off the funeral defended his actions to KCNC, saying he hadn't been aware of the video until right before the service, and that he gave the family the chance to edit it.

"New Hope did their absolutely very best to accommodate this family in their hour of need,"Chaplain Gary Rolando said.

He also told KMGH, "We don't want overt, open homosexuality in our sanctuary." But he did offer an apology, saying, "New Hope is very sorry. ... It's very sad that it happened the way that it did."
Colorado church canceled lesbian woman's funeral, family says | Seattle News, Weather, Traffic, Video and Sports | KIRO 7... | www.kirotv.com

I have read several articles, none of which indicate that advanced notice (more than 15 minutes) was provided to the family. All such claims are a lie.
 
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