Obama Proposes 2 Years of Free Community College

[Linc]

Nothing devalues a college degree more than everybody having one.

So yer against all God's children having the opportunity to get ahead in the world with a college degree.
And helping lower-to-middle class families elevate their children to the next level .

 

[imagep]

Nothing devalues a college degree more than everybody having one.

Yet the conservative answer to poverty is "get some education and job skills".

 

[Fletch]

Yet the conservative answer to poverty is "get some education and job skills".

Yes. That is the answer. But surely you get the point--If everyone has a college degree, the degree is meaningless.

 

[Fiddytree]

So yer against all God's children having the opportunity to get ahead in the world with a college degree.
And helping lower-to-middle class families elevate their children to the next level .

Americans structure higher education as a means of gaining competitive employment opportunities rather than edification. In many fields where the prospective employees are many and the jobs are few, you see a rise in artificial requirements. A scholar in waiting, rather than merely needing to be a freshly-minted PhD with a book perhaps on the way need only apply when he has successfully published two books and maintained a few years of teaching experience. What was once prime material becomes inferior to ever-greater work experience, education, and acquisitions of status.

The market requires workers demonstrate superiority to his fellow man. Elitism becomes the saving grace for a prospective employee.

There's at the very least, some method to Fletch's madness.

 

[Linc]

I wish I was still in the classroom sometimes, making the difference in chem/physics/math.
But I still tutor and coach and my 'hidden agenda', quite conservative with the kids, is always geared to what you mention.

It's like a great HS wrestler--they're all that good in college--same with major level courses in Chemistry--HS As are a dime a dozen.
Our CCs in IL now have PhDs in most majors--it's the only way 4-year schools would take the whole AA degree.

HS teachers must have a Masters in Chemistry, not just a Masters in Ed in Chem, to teach Chem for a major level course.
Otherwise, they can still teach Chem for gen ed.

Also, we have a huge program where HS courses count as DUAL CREDIT with the CC .

Coming from an educator's standpoint myself, the American appreciation for education is utterly abhorrent. Americans can be counted on to be late and demand to be served. The Asians are there to learn, and they treat their teachers like gods.

 

[imagep]

Yes. That is the answer. But surely you get the point--If everyone has a college degree, the degree is meaningless.

From an income standpoint, maybe. But it does mean that employers have a large choice of educated potential employees.

When it comes to education, I would rather err on the side of an over educated society than an under educated one.

 

[Reformedfindlay]

I think that because of his own employment background and financial understanding, Obama doesn't fully understand that money doesn't come from the magic-money machine.

If you're the U.S. it does in fact come from the magic money machine.

As president Obama Hussein palin and many presidents before him once said, "PRINT BABY PRINT!"

 

[iguanaman]

Sounds to me like Obama is willing to do a little horse trading.

He sees the reality of the GOP controlling both houses and he knows that if he takes out his veto pen every time they send him a bill that the Democrats will feel the wrath at the polls in 2016. This smells like he's floating a deal...

Obama is just calling the Republicans bluff. He knows they have no ideas of their own except hating everything Obama likes and loving anything he doesn't want. So it will be bill after bill that has no chance of becoming law which is what they really want. Take a look at their latest masterpiece "The Save American Workers Act" for an example. They are too divided to actually govern and they know it so they will tread water another 2 years, hoping against hope that some messiah will appear and get them out of this mess. Meanwhile Obama's popularity will keep growing (he's already at a 2 year high) along with the economy, making a Democratic victory in 2016 a foregone conclusion. And the GOP will breath a sigh of relief because at least they didn't get run out of town on a rail.

 

[Linc]

:bs

Yes. That is the answer. But surely you get the point--If everyone has a college degree, the degree is meaningless.

utter :bs

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Yes. That is the answer. But surely you get the point--If everyone has a college degree, the degree is meaningless.

It's skills and training regardless of whether everyone has it or not. The more skilled and educated our working population is, the more competitive we are in the global economy among developed nations. Not a difficult concept here.

 

[Fletch]

:bs



utter :bs

To be honest, Nimby, I really didn't expect you to understand the point I was making...

 

[Linc]

I may not agree with you not liking the idea, but your OP has taken off and I liked it--well done .

Breaking News fresh off the presses! Not really sure how all this will work. I guess when it fails in the Congress he'll blame the Republicans... :roll:

Obama: President Proposes 2 Free Years of Community College

Does anyone have any thoughts as to how this can actually work?

Because I'm not liking this idea:

 

[Fiddytree]

Obama is just calling the Republicans bluff. He knows they have no ideas of their own except hating everything Obama likes and loving anything he doesn't want. So it will be bill after bill that has no chance of becoming law which is what they really want. Take a look at their latest masterpiece "The Save American Workers Act" for an example. They are too divided to actually govern and they know it so they will tread water another 2 years, hoping against hope that some messiah will appear and get them out of this mess. Meanwhile Obama's popularity will keep growing (he's already at a 2 year high) along with the economy, making a Democratic victory in 2016 a foregone conclusion. And the GOP will breath a sigh of relief because at least they didn't get run out of town on a rail.

If Obama wanted to do all of that, I would have looked to something that would gain more traction with those who are most likely to vote (and in greater numbers). This bill is a play to the young people, not middle aged, or the elderly.

 

[Fletch]

It's skills and training regardless of whether everyone has it or not. The more skilled and educated our working population is, the more competitive we are in the global economy among developed nations. Not a difficult concept here.

Apparently it is a difficult concept for you since you aren't getting the point either. The point is the value of the diploma. That value drops to zero if everyone has one.

 

[Declan]

Trailer park conservatives don't really want to see a light for their child. They think that working a $10/hr job for the rest of their lives is "success".

Yeah if there was a "smack on the back of the head" button, I would use it on this post.

 

[iguanaman]

If Obama wanted to do all of that, I would have looked to something that would gain more traction with those who are most likely to vote (and in greater numbers). This bill is a play to the young people, not middle aged or the elderly.

Where do you think young people come from, the stork? Who pays for their college if they can afford it? Besides the voting age is 18.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Apparently it is a difficult concept for you since you aren't getting the point either. The point is the value of the diploma. That value drops to zero if everyone has one.

No because it still depends on what you choose to get that diploma in. If you give everyone 2 years of community college, then its a given that the ones that choose to get an Art History Major will have an even less valuable diploma now because there is just not that much demand for Art History Majors out there in the economy. However, the ones that choose to get their 2 year degree in Computer Science are not going to have a worthless degree because there are more jobs today for IT professionals then there are adequately skilled IT candidates to fill them.

 

[Fiddytree]

Where do you think young people come from, the stork? Who pays for their college?

Few care about the affordability of postsecondary education except for a group of voters with fickle devotion to voting and little political clout.

I would be more interested in trading the Keystone Pipeline for the Democrats' traditional plank for infrastructure development as a means of trading political blows. There's been much more discussion surrounding that than postsecondary education. Keystone is going to be the Congress's first big priority this session and some Democrats keep hammering the jobs claims.

 

[Henrin]

It's skills and training regardless of whether everyone has it or not. The more skilled and educated our working population is, the more competitive we are in the global economy among developed nations. Not a difficult concept here.

You could actually have the government set controls on the amount of degrees available by using the input of industry, but I would never support that idea. It would however work to avoid the issue of useless degrees.

On that note, I really have to learn to stop supplying people with ideas.

Anyway, having skills that you can't do anything with and that you are still paying for does you no good.

 

[iguanaman]

Apparently it is a difficult concept for you since you aren't getting the point either. The point is the value of the diploma. That value drops to zero if everyone has one.

So that is what you are worried about? Too many people with diplomas? How could everybody possibly have one? Are you picturing some sort of forced education where everyone is picked for college by the police? This is a voluntary program and certainly not for everybody.

 

[Henrin]

From an income standpoint, maybe. But it does mean that employers have a large choice of educated potential employees.

When it comes to education, I would rather err on the side of an over educated society than an under educated one.

Flooding a market just means that you are going to have a bunch of people with skills they can't find work doing. Promoting the idea that supply should just ignore demand is going to lead to people suffering.

 

[iguanaman]

Few care about the affordability of postsecondary education except for a group of voters with fickle devotion to voting and little political clout.

I would be more interested in trading the Keystone Pipeline for the Democrats' traditional plank for infrastructure development as a means of trading political blows. There's been much more discussion surrounding that than postsecondary education. Keystone is going to be the Congress's first big priority this session and some Democrats keep hammering the jobs claims.

Keystone is dead in the water. Republicans in Congress wouldn't work with the Dems if they were the last men on earth either, its' much too dangerous for them. Look at their performance in the House for the last 2 years if you want a clue. There also will not be enough votes to overturn Obama's certain veto. Give Obama a little credit. He has warned Congress more than once that he won't allow them to overturn the normal protocols and they still keep pushing. Not to mention its a stupid thing and he has said as much.

 

[Fiddytree]

From an income standpoint, maybe. But it does mean that employers have a large choice of educated potential employees.

When it comes to education, I would rather err on the side of an over educated society than an under educated one.

I would too, but I am not certain this would be it. In higher education, one wonders if this is the reform one would want to see spread throughout the country. There's two other issues at play, neither of which would be addressed. The first is the decreased levels of funding in many states. For some, the claim now is that the schools rely more on tuition fees than state allocations. The second is an overwhelming level of administrative bloat. It would seem these two issues are a significant reason why tuition & fees are continuing to rise. To what extent the executive office and/or the legislative branch could address these is probably difficult to perceive.

The President also has a difficult year coming up for higher ed issues as he is essentially instituting his own higher ed version of Goals 2000. It's probably going to be very very informal and also a point of contention to most administrations in colleges across the country, but a signal of things to come.

 

[Fiddytree]

Keystone is dead in the water. There will not be enough votes to overturn Obama's certain veto. Give Obama a little credit. He has warned Congress more than once that he won't allow them to overturn the normal protocols and they still keep pushing. Not to mention its a stupid thing and he has said as much.

Keystone may be dead in the water (there's still more desperate measures available), but if he wanted to poke at the Republicans some more about infrastructure, he's got it. Over the next few months internal developments will be a big talking point. If Obama wanted to do all that you were discussing, I think he would have picked another target instead of what amounts to being merely an extensive scholarship for people going to college.

 

[Linc]

I find it anything but amusing that our GOP Conservative friends don't look at Obama's idea as a voucher program, their holy grail.
As I previously stated, I'd like to see this program available for hard-working middle-class families in the 3rd year of college, 1st year at a 4-year.
Many of these families are able to escape debt the first two years at CC--many are not.

Without my own children, I have only two nieces and one nephew left to finish college--two with little debt and one with major.
The future accountant is already making money with a firm.
The future nurse is in a good field for a future job and must do well with her internships, as I did in student teaching way back when.
The future engineer knows just how important future COOPs are, the opportunity for a company to take her on and pay for some college.

Making sure that the next generation in my family doesn't have to pay back debt as I did in the 1980s is my dream.
But it's still on them to get the grades--it's on me as their Uncle to make sure they have the means.

So from my perspective, I've got good reason to resent Fletch demeaning a CC degree.
Many kids need this stepping stone from HS to a 4-year school and further .

Americans structure higher education as a means of gaining competitive employment opportunities rather than edification. In many fields where the prospective employees are many and the jobs are few, you see a rise in artificial requirements. A scholar in waiting, rather than merely needing to be a freshly-minted PhD with a book perhaps on the way need only apply when he has successfully published two books and maintained a few years of teaching experience. What was once prime material becomes inferior to ever-greater work experience, education, and acquisitions of status.

The market requires workers demonstrate superiority to his fellow man. Elitism becomes the saving grace for a prospective employee.

There's at the very least, some method to Fletch's madness.