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Pit bull shot by Lee County deputy

I know that there is a large range of policies regarding pursuit criteria and procedures, many of them focused on pursuit of a vehicle by a vehicle. Also, there are many places that have chosen not to have helicopters and there are places that can't afford one. However, I am discussing actual police practices, not the official rules. Most departments are too busy to do that type of search without reason to believe the person is dangerous because there will be a much more urgent need for those resources elsewhere. The action in this case is unusual, if it wasn't, there would be many more cases of pets killed by police if they routinely used dogs to chase escaping bicyclists and pedestrians through private property in residential areas.

You will NEVER, Let me say it again.....YOU WILL NEVER get police to NOT pursue a person that runs to evade them when they are trying to stop them....That is silly to think you would.
 
It may interest some to know that SCOTUS has ruled that police use of a K9 to pursue a fleeing a suspect is appropriate: Case Law :: Patrol :: United States Police Canine Association

Additionally, using a dog is equal force to using a baton or fist, and you can only use your personal dog against an intruder when you would be justified in fighting that intruder yourself. Mere trespassing does not justify violence, so mere trespassing doesn't justify a dog attacking. The trespasser has to also be damaging property or pose a threat to a person.

Even if using a police K9 to pursue a fleeing suspect were excessive force, which it's not, and even if said K9 running through your yard were trespassing, which it's not, you still aren't justified in attacking it. You are justified in filing a 'you darn kids stay off my lawn' complaint with the department in the morning and moving on with your life. In many states, attacking that K9 is identical to assaulting a law enforcement officer, so keep your dogs in check.
 
What law gives a police dog the right to search private property without the police having a search warrant?
]When is a Warrant Not Required?

There are times when police can perform a search without a warrant, and most searches actually do occur without warrants being issued. That is not to say the police can barge into your home and search it without a warrant; if there is a reasonable expectation of privacy and there is not probable cause, a search warrant is required. However, if probable cause does occur, such as the suspect runs away, a gunshot is heard from another room in a home, or even when an individual makes a sudden movement, a search becomes legal without a warrant. Even with a reasonable expectation of privacy, the police can legally conduct a search without a warrant in situations in which certain exemptions*apply.
Google is your friend.
 
It may interest some to know that SCOTUS has ruled that police use of a K9 to pursue a fleeing a suspect is appropriate: Case Law :: Patrol :: United States Police Canine Association

Additionally, using a dog is equal force to using a baton or fist, and you can only use your personal dog against an intruder when you would be justified in fighting that intruder yourself. Mere trespassing does not justify violence, so mere trespassing doesn't justify a dog attacking. The trespasser has to also be damaging property or pose a threat to a person.

Even if using a police K9 to pursue a fleeing suspect were excessive force, which it's not, and even if said K9 running through your yard were trespassing, which it's not, you still aren't justified in attacking it. You are justified in filing a 'you darn kids stay off my lawn' complaint with the department in the morning and moving on with your life. In many states, attacking that K9 is identical to assaulting a law enforcement officer, so keep your dogs in check.

I am pretty sure that I can kill a dog that has strayed on my property. A police dog is JUST A DOG. Dogs dont have RIGHTS like humans do. A cop cannot just shoot any human that attacks their police dog. If the owner was out in the yard and he attacked the police dog on his property, the police could not just shoot the home owner. The police have no right to enter private property on a pursuit unless there is real danger that the suspect that they were chasing was dangerous. And in this case the police are not looking for the bicycle dude, indicating that he is not a perceived danger then or now. Obviously they were just pissed that the guy ran away and they were going to get the guy that dared to defy them.

Notice that there wasnt a police statement signifying at all why they chased the guy? The police dont sound like they wish to talk about this case at all. Most likely it is an embarrassment. Because of the cop shooting a home owners legal pet we know that the cops used seemingly ridiculous amount of power to chase a guy that ran from cops because he had no damn headlight. And this will probably be all that we ever hear about this case. Notice also that animal control showed up to help the dog and take care of the dog. Sounds like the police knew that they were in the wrong. Otherwise they would have left the care of the family pet up to the owner.
 
I am pretty sure that I can kill a dog that has strayed on my property.
That depends on your local law. You can't in my city, unless the stray is attacking someone. To kill it is to invite a misdemeanor animal cruelty charge, and if you use a gun to do it then you get a firearms charge as well.


A police dog is JUST A DOG. Dogs dont have RIGHTS like humans do.
Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act. Assaulting a police K9 while it's performing it's duty is a crime.


A cop cannot just shoot any human that attacks their police dog.
Is anyone even talking about such a thing?


If the owner was out in the yard and he attacked the police dog on his property, the police could not just shoot the home owner.
No one said the police could. The police would arrest the property owner and charge them for assaulting a police K9, obstruction of justice, illegal discharge of a firearm and using a firearm in the commission of a crime. Some states treat an assault upon the dog as an assault upon a law enforcement officer. Even kicking the dog is a felony.


The police have no right to enter private property on a pursuit unless there is real danger that the suspect that they were chasing was dangerous.
That's not true at all. Police can enter your property upon probable cause to pursue a suspect regardless of the accused crime.


Notice that there wasnt a police statement signifying at all why they chased the guy?


He chased the guy because the guy ran. It's just that simple. Running is, all by itself, a crime.


The police dont sound like they wish to talk about this case at all.
Any lawyer worth his union fee is going to control information to the tightest degree legally permissible.


Because of the cop shooting a home owners legal pet we know that the cops used seemingly ridiculous amount of power to chase a guy that ran from cops because he had no damn headlight.
If you think the guy ran because of his headlight, you know little to nothing about this topic. He was stopped because of his headlight. People run because they are wanted.


And this will probably be all that we ever hear about this case. Notice also that animal control showed up to help the dog and take care of the dog. Sounds like the police knew that they were in the wrong. Otherwise they would have left the care of the family pet up to the owner.
Sounds like calling animal control is standard procedure just like calling an ambulance for a shot human is standard procedure. An accredited veterinarian will be needed for a credible report on the officer's use of a gun.

Google? Never heard of him/her. Oh and your little link doesnt at all explain a law pertaining to police dogs running loose on private property.
You had asked about the right of police to search your property without a warrant. No one was ever talking about dogs running loose, but of police searches.
 
That depends on your local law. You can't in my city, unless the stray is attacking someone. To kill it is to invite a misdemeanor animal cruelty charge, and if you use a gun to do it then you get a firearms charge as well.
So why not google the laws where this took place instead of making assumptions?



Law Enforcement Animal Protection Act. Assaulting a police K9 while it's performing it's duty is a crime.
WTF does a federal law have to do with a non-federal police dog?





Is anyone even talking about such a thing?
Specifically your siad: "Additionally, using a dog is equal force to using a baton or fist, and you can only use your personal dog against an intruder when you would be justified in fighting that intruder yourself. Mere trespassing does not justify violence, so mere trespassing doesn't justify a dog attacking. The trespasser has to also be damaging property or pose a threat to a person." It is reasonable that the police dog provoked the home owners pet. Under Florida law then the home owners dog was within the home owners rights to attack being on his property unannounced. It is doubtful that the police dog was in any real danger in a dogfight. German Shepherds are formidable opponents and a trained and disciplined dog in a k9 unit would find the run of the mill pitbull easy prey. Its the thick neck hair that makes all the difference between the two breeds.



No one said the police could. The police would arrest the property owner and charge them for assaulting a police K9, obstruction of justice, illegal discharge of a firearm and using a firearm in the commission of a crime. Some states treat an assault upon the dog as an assault upon a law enforcement officer. Even kicking the dog is a felony.
You are assuming that without the benefit of actually knowing.



That's not true at all. Police can enter your property upon probable cause to pursue a suspect regardless of the accused crime.
True but they cannot endanger lives including domestic animals on said property. It was upto the officers to determine if a dog was on the property knowing that bringing a police dog on the property unannounced could cause the very situation that did happen. You cant tell me that a k9 unit isnt trained in the fact the MOST homeowners have a dog. They cant just go onto a property and be surprised that a dog was there. Before a police dog goes on the property a effort must be made to determine if there is a dog outside. And these are local police that should already have a clue where dogs are in the first place.





He chased the guy because the guy ran. It's just that simple. Running is, all by itself, a crime.
Running can be a crime, but not always. I had friends that found it fun to run from the cops, they got caught most of the time. I know of none that were charged with a crime. But in this case a guy ran and the cops called in a k9 unit which ran onto private property where the police dog was attacked by the dog that lives on that property. Was that police dog under the control of the officer? We dont know.



Any lawyer worth his union fee is going to control information to the tightest degree legally permissible.
Police departments have PR people that deal with these things. They usually are tight lipped if the cops are at fault. Or if there is a ongoing case which then they say that there is a ongoing case and that they cant say anything. In this case they simply are not pursuing the bike dude at all. Probably because they are too busy trying to fix their bad.



If you think the guy ran because of his headlight, you know little to nothing about this topic. He was stopped because of his headlight. People run because they are wanted.
Some people just run, there isnt any evidence that this person ran because he was wanted. Perhaps he just didnt like cops or didnt want a ticket. A lot of stupid people think that they can run and getaway, in fact this guy did run away and not get caught.



Sounds like calling animal control is standard procedure just like calling an ambulance for a shot human is standard procedure. An accredited veterinarian will be needed for a credible report on the officer's use of a gun.
Not really, as I said if the homeowners dog was being aggressive they would have killed the dog not tried to save it.
 
You had asked about the right of police to search your property without a warrant. No one was ever talking about dogs running loose, but of police searches.
The k9 unit was not searching the private property for anything other than the suspect. it would have been wise to notify the homeowner that there was a suspect on their property and that they wish to search the property for him with a police dog. You keep talking about proper procedure but ignore such things like properly notifying a property owner of a search. Police do not have the endless right to do things just because they think they have probable cause in their corner. The police in this case didnt notify the homeowner probably because they didnt see the suspect as being dangerous. The k9 unit went against their training by bringing a the police dog onto property that they didnt know a dog was on. Had they spent the few minutes necessary to inform themselves if a dog was there then none of this would have happened. They didnt and because they didnt check and see if there might be a dog present not only did they have to shoot the homeowners dog but the police dog got injured and the suspect got away. It is called bad policing.
 
You will NEVER, Let me say it again.....YOU WILL NEVER get police to NOT pursue a person that runs to evade them when they are trying to stop them....That is silly to think you would.

Many jurisdictions have limits on vehicle pursuits.

Such as:

"The “Balance Test” should be used as a guide in determining whether or not to pursue. An officer’s reasonable suspicion must be based upon the facts perceived by the officer at that time. Factors, which can be used incontinuously assessing the need for apprehension versus risk created by the pursuit, are set forth below. Other factors may be considered in addition to those criteria listed below......

Balance Test – Factors to be Considered: Public safety, Nature of offense and apparent circumstances, Officer safety, Vehicle Code requirements, Passenger in officer’s vehicle (e.g., citizen, witness, prisoner), Pedestrian and vehicular traffic patterns and volume, Other persons in or on pursued vehicle (e.g., passengers, co-offenders, hostages), Location of the pursuit (e.g., school zone, playground, residential, downtown, jurisdiction)....."

http://lib.post.ca.gov/Publications/vp_guidelines.pdf
 
"...Most agencies also have significant procedural controls for a pursuit. These often start during the event with policies requiring a supervisor to monitor the pursuit.11 Many agencies have a set of special pursuit reports that officers and supervisors have to prepare after an event, and these reports are reviewed up the chain of command. Most agencies have a policy that explicitly states an officer may never be disciplined for terminating a pursuit, but can be disciplined for pursuit policy violations where the pursuit is improper..."
Police Chief Magazine - View Article
 
Because I will fire on anyone that draws on my dogs. I'm not kidding, they dont deserve to die because of police incompetence and I dont break the law. So they have no right to be on my property except by accident (still no right) or controlling *themselves* if they need to knock on my door for information.

That's not entirely true, and neither of your modifiers covers all of the circumstances that might result in cops being on your property.

In law there's something called "exigent circumstances" that allows cops access to pretty much anywhere if they believe that their need to be there trumps your property rights.

If the cops are chasing a fleeing suspect, as was the case in the OP article, or if they were looking for a missing child, or if they believed that a fleeing suspect threw some sort of "contraband" over your fence, then they'd have the legal right to come on to your property and the legal right to defend themselves from a threatening dog.

I'm not saying that any of this is right, but it is the way it is.
 
Ashley%20Continuum.jpg


"...The most critical element of any pursuit is the need to match the level of control exerted to the degree of risk posed by the fleeing individual. In other words, what is the degree of risk posed to the public by the offense committed by the individual, and what is the degree of risk posed to the public should the fleeing individual make good his or her escape, and be free to commit the offense again?..."
The Police Policy Studies Council
 
It's a federal law regarding all police dogs. Please make some attempt to improve your reading comprehension.

I think that it is you the needs to brush up on your reading comprehension.

This what you did not read.

18 U.S. Code § 1368 - Harming animals used in law enforcement

(a) Whoever willfully and maliciously harms any police animal, or attempts or conspires to do so, shall be fined under this title and imprisoned not more than 1 year. If the offense permanently disables or disfigures the animal, or causes serious bodily injury to or the death of the animal, the maximum term of imprisonment shall be 10 years.

(b) In this section, the term “police animal” means a dog or horse employed by a Federal agency (whether in the executive, legislative, or judicial branch) for the principal purpose of aiding in the detection of criminal activity, enforcement of laws, or apprehension of criminal offenders.


This federal code has zero to do with State or local law enforcement. "employed by a Federal agency" Local law enforcement and even State law enforcement are not a Federal agency, or are you trying to tell me otherwise?

Did you forget how to use google, I heard it is your friend. Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The key here is that the suspect was not armed or dangerous, he was just running which is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor. Legally the police had zero right to go onto the property that the pitbull was on chasing their suspect.

And I also have to wonder how the suspect did escape with the police copter flying above? Perhaps the bike dude is just a story for why their k9 ran off and attacked a homeowner's dog?
 
The key here is that the suspect was not armed or dangerous, he was just running which is not a felony, it is a misdemeanor. Legally the police had zero right to go onto the property that the pitbull was on chasing their suspect.
That's not "key" at all. Not even a tinny little bit. Fleeing or attempting to elude a law enforcement officer is a crime all by itself. Using a K9 to apprehend a fleeing suspect is perfectly justifiable according to SCOTUS. Police presence on private property to pursue or apprehend a suspect is perfectly justifiable according to SCOTUS.

The k9 unit was not searching the private property for anything other than the suspect. it would have been wise to notify the homeowner that there was a suspect on their property and that they wish to search the property for him with a police dog. You keep talking about proper procedure but ignore such things like properly notifying a property owner of a search. Police do not have the endless right to do things just because they think they have probable cause in their corner. The police in this case didnt notify the homeowner probably because they didnt see the suspect as being dangerous. The k9 unit went against their training by bringing a the police dog onto property that they didnt know a dog was on. Had they spent the few minutes necessary to inform themselves if a dog was there then none of this would have happened. They didnt and because they didnt check and see if there might be a dog present not only did they have to shoot the homeowners dog but the police dog got injured and the suspect got away. It is called bad policing.
The right isn't "endless". It's in fact very limited to the scope of probable cause. Pursuing a fleeing suspect falls within that narrow scope. If the property owner takes action against a police dog perusing a suspect, that owner will be charged under Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses. A police officer using deadly force against you shooting at the K9, or at your dog who thinks it's just defending it's property, is justified in that use of deadly force under Florida Title Code Chapeter 776.05.

There was never, is not, and never will be any moral, ethical, or legal necessity to inform property owners before continuing pursuit. If you can't keep your dog under control, then you shouldn't have a dog.
 
That's not "key" at all. Not even a tinny little bit. Fleeing or attempting to elude a law enforcement officer is a crime all by itself. Using a K9 to apprehend a fleeing suspect is perfectly justifiable according to SCOTUS. Police presence on private property to pursue or apprehend a suspect is perfectly justifiable according to SCOTUS.


The right isn't "endless". It's in fact very limited to the scope of probable cause. Pursuing a fleeing suspect falls within that narrow scope. If the property owner takes action against a police dog perusing a suspect, that owner will be charged under Offenses against police dogs, fire dogs, SAR dogs, or police horses. A police officer using deadly force against you shooting at the K9, or at your dog who thinks it's just defending it's property, is justified in that use of deadly force under Florida Title Code Chapeter 776.05.

There was never, is not, and never will be any moral, ethical, or legal necessity to inform property owners before continuing pursuit. If you can't keep your dog under control, then you shouldn't have a dog.
It is only justifiable to go on private property (in this case) without a court order if the suspect that they were chasing committed a felony or was a danger to the safety of the public. Fleeing as I said is a misdemeanor not a felony, and is not dangerous. The police had no right to be on private property during that chase.

CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE has zero to do with anything in this thread. It never mentions police dogs or any other animal, it is centered on humans and humans alone.
The other link though which does talk about police dogs operates on the premise that a person knows that a police dog is a police dog. We dont have any information as to the actual circumstances that led up to the dogfight and the shooting of the family pet. There is no mention of whether the police dog was leashed or not. They do mention in the article several times that the homeowners dog was unleashed which is untrue. The dog had an electronic leash on that shocked the dog if he dared to cross the property line. As I said it was upto the k9 officer to make sure that there wasnt any dogs on the private property before he attempted to enter the property with his police dog. He obviously failed to make the determination and his dog got attacked for his incompetence. ANd the homeowner got his dog shot because the officer was incompetent. You can continue making all kinds of excuses but you cannot deny that the officer had a obligation to make sure that no dogs were present before bringing his police dog onto the property.
 
It is only justifiable to go on private property (in this case) without a court order if the suspect that they were chasing committed a felony or was a danger to the safety of the public. Fleeing as I said is a misdemeanor not a felony, and is not dangerous. The police had no right to be on private property during that chase.
Police have the right to enter private property without a warrant to pursue a suspect. What crime the suspect committed is irrelevant.

CHAPTER 776 JUSTIFIABLE USE OF FORCE has zero to do with anything in this thread. It never mentions police dogs or any other animal, it is centered on humans and humans alone.
The other link though which does talk about police dogs operates on the premise that a person knows that a police dog is a police dog. We dont have any information as to the actual circumstances that led up to the dogfight and the shooting of the family pet. There is no mention of whether the police dog was leashed or not. They do mention in the article several times that the homeowners dog was unleashed which is untrue. The dog had an electronic leash on that shocked the dog if he dared to cross the property line.
An electronic leash is not a leash.

As I said it was upto the k9 officer to make sure that there wasnt any dogs on the private property before he attempted to enter the property with his police dog.
That's an irrational demand.

He obviously failed to make the determination and his dog got attacked for his incompetence. ANd the homeowner got his dog shot because the officer was incompetent. You can continue making all kinds of excuses but you cannot deny that the officer had a obligation to make sure that no dogs were present before bringing his police dog onto the property.
Police officers have no obligation to clear all possible routs of a fleeing suspect before giving chase. It's literally physically impossible to accomplish. You may as well demand an officer draw a perfect circle with 2 sharp corners as that's equally impossible.
 
Police have the right to enter private property without a warrant to pursue a suspect. What crime the suspect committed is irrelevant.


An electronic leash is not a leash.


That's an irrational demand.


Police officers have no obligation to clear all possible routs of a fleeing suspect before giving chase. It's literally physically impossible to accomplish. You may as well demand an officer draw a perfect circle with 2 sharp corners as that's equally impossible.

Yea sure I believe you.
 
I can't believe this thread is still active. Don't people know that anybody can shoot your dog and not be punished in any meaningful way? Dogs are property and hae no rights of their own. I am not happy about that but that's the way it is. Besides if that policemen shoots and kills a person that he said was attacking him he would not have any problems with that either.
 
Here is some more info on this case. According to the homeowners Nena was attacked by the k9 and never attacked the k9 so the cops shot Nena for sniffing a dog on her own property. And this after the owner already talked to the cops and they did not mention anything about the k9. So the homeowners noticed a light on their property and went out to investigate and were yelled at by the cops (audio below).

My Dog Nena was shot by police help by Nena Rivera - GoFundMe

"Please help my dog Nena who was shot by the police.
At around 10 pm, I went outside to investigate my dog named Brownie, who was tied up and barking, letting me know somebody was on the premises (I knew there
was a criminal on the loose in the area, because of the search helicopter, and I had also spoken to the police about it ) I went outside to investigate who was there, and that is when I then saw lights from the side of my RV, on my property. I then said, "who's that?" and was met with an angry officer who began to yell and scream at me . I advised him that he was on my property, and at that time he began yelling even more aggressively towards me.


When he started yelling, my other dog Nena came outside to see what was going on & she noticed a new dog on our property that she had not seen before. She started jogging over to the K9 in a non-aggressive manner to check out the new dog, who she did not know – just as all dogs do when they meet a new dog-. As she was jogging over to the K9, I was yelling for her to come back so she would not go up to the K9, but it was too late as she was already up to the K9 on our property. The K9 proceeded to bite her followed by her trying to defend herself .



At that moment, the police proceeded to shoot my dog, Nena. She and I started screaming in agony, as I just witnessed her get shot in front of my eyes! The entire time this was all taking place, she never left her property, which is enclosed with an invisible fence system.
"

2937724_fb_1420390785.4484_funds.jpg


 
When he started yelling, my other dog Nena came outside to see what was going on & she noticed a new dog on our property that she had not seen before. She started jogging over to the K9 in a non-aggressive manner to check out the new dog, who she did not know – just as all dogs do when they meet a new dog-. As she was jogging over to the K9, I was yelling for her to come back so she would not go up to the K9, but it was too late as she was already up to the K9 on our property. The K9 proceeded to bite her followed by her trying to defend herself .
So Nena was allowed to interfere with police business.
 
I can't believe this thread is still active. Don't people know that anybody can shoot your dog and not be punished in any meaningful way? Dogs are property and hae no rights of their own. I am not happy about that but that's the way it is. Besides if that policemen shoots and kills a person that he said was attacking him he would not have any problems with that either.

If a police officer shoots a person, it's justifiable, see Ferguson Missouri and Milwaukee Wisconsin cases. A grand jury will indict a ham sandwich, but not a police officer.
 
Here is some more info on this case. According to the homeowners Nena was attacked by the k9 and never attacked the k9 so the cops shot Nena for sniffing a dog on her own property. And this after the owner already talked to the cops and they did not mention anything about the k9. So the homeowners noticed a light on their property and went out to investigate and were yelled at by the cops (audio below).

My Dog Nena was shot by police help by Nena Rivera - GoFundMe

"Please help my dog Nena who was shot by the police.
At around 10 pm, I went outside to investigate my dog named Brownie, who was tied up and barking, letting me know somebody was on the premises (I knew there
was a criminal on the loose in the area, because of the search helicopter, and I had also spoken to the police about it ) I went outside to investigate who was there, and that is when I then saw lights from the side of my RV, on my property. I then said, "who's that?" and was met with an angry officer who began to yell and scream at me . I advised him that he was on my property, and at that time he began yelling even more aggressively towards me.


When he started yelling, my other dog Nena came outside to see what was going on & she noticed a new dog on our property that she had not seen before. She started jogging over to the K9 in a non-aggressive manner to check out the new dog, who she did not know – just as all dogs do when they meet a new dog-. As she was jogging over to the K9, I was yelling for her to come back so she would not go up to the K9, but it was too late as she was already up to the K9 on our property. The K9 proceeded to bite her followed by her trying to defend herself .



At that moment, the police proceeded to shoot my dog, Nena. She and I started screaming in agony, as I just witnessed her get shot in front of my eyes! The entire time this was all taking place, she never left her property, which is enclosed with an invisible fence system.
"

2937724_fb_1420390785.4484_funds.jpg



That's her story...but it sounds to me like she went outside once and knew the police were in the area when she was told to get back in the house. Knowing that police were searching for a fleeing criminal, she did not secure her dog. This is her own fault.

If you have someone at your house and they get injured you'll be sued. She should have taken the dog in the first time she was confronted.
 
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