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Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

SMTA said:
Not having a round in the chamber of a carry gun relegates it's status to rock or paperweight.
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What? I don't think you understand what the "chamber" of a gun is. Not having a round in the chamber doesn't mean you don't have any bullets.
 
Risky Thicket said:
We don't know the lady's personal circumstances. There could be very valid reasons why she felt the need to carry. It could be - and it sadly is in so many cases - that people, and I think ladies in particular, don't purchase a gun and learn to use it until after a real or perceived threat has occurred. That in IMHO is the wrong time or the worst time to suddenly buy and carry a gun. It's rushed and the need to have the gun obscures the need to become competent in owning and carrying it.

Responsible adults take the time to learn and practice and train and practice and think about what they are doing and why they are doing it. Owning a gun is a never ending learning process or it should be. Owning and carrying is not the end of the what if questions. In fact it should usher in a thousand more what ifs.
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Then you would agree that those people who are not willing or don't have the time or responsibility to "train and practice" etc. should not own a gun and should be told so. The idea that a gun = protection is what I object to. It is a double edged sword. There are at least as many reasons NOT to own a gun as there are to own one.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Tim the plumber said:
This is not an accident. It is a result of idiocy. The idiocy is the act of carrying a gun about in a supermarket. The discharge of the weapon is an accident waiting to happen.

Americans need to understand that this should be regarded as an unlawful killing. The responsibility was the stupid mothers so no action is required but it could have been anybody at the store that caught the bullet.

If you have a gun then that gun is the one which is more likely to kill you than all the rest of them out there.
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I read somewhere that Walmart's policy on CC is to follow whatever the law is of that particular state that the store resides. However, the management prefers the gun remain concealed. If it becomes visible, Walmart can respectfully ask that the weapon be concealed immediately; if the person does not respond to management's request, the person that is carrying could be asked to leave.

I wonder if the company's policy will change any now that this incident has happened?
 
Captain America said:
Good points. But the fact remains that the 2 year old DID get to the gun. Just a tad MORE responsibility might have prevented that. Hindsite's 20/20.
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Sure.. she could have decided to put a lock on the purse, and then.. when she was mugged in the parking lot.. she is raped and killed in front of her 2 year old because she could get the gun out in time.

Pointing out.. there are tradeoffs in carrying a weapon for self defense. It has to be accessible, it has to be able to be fired without tremendous effort.. like fumbling with a difficult safety, or racking a round into the chamber. Sometimes fractions of seconds count... and it has to be secure from being taken from you by someone else either a perp or a toddler.

If everytime something happened with a child.. it was automatically the parents fault for being irresponsible... every parent would be considered irresponsible.

.
 
iguanaman said:
Then you would agree that those people who are not willing or don't have the time or responsibility to "train and practice" etc. should not own a gun and should be told so. The idea that a gun = protection is what I object to. It is a double edged sword. There are at least as many reasons NOT to own a gun as there are to own one.
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No statistically there a many more reasons to own a firearm than to not own one.
 
VanceMack said:
Perhaps she was just a mother who carefully considered her decision to get a firearm, went through a class, got a CCW permit, and made a really stupid decision on how to carry it.

You odnt 'wonder' where she got that idea. You believe she got that idea from a special message directly to her from the NRA. Why? Because you are biased and full of hatred towards the NRA.
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Now that you mention it, she could have got the message from you or someone like you. How would you feel if you were the one who told her she would be safer carrying a gun in her purse at Walmart or sold that mother the AR-15 that killed her and all those children in Sandy Hook? Would you be sorry?
 
iguanaman said:
True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?
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A violent crime can happen anywhere....including Walmart. My guess is that she simply considered carrying as a prudent safety measure.
 
iguanaman said:
True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?
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Must be the liberal media..

FORT WORTH (CBSDFW.COM) - Two teens have been arrested for the beating and robbery of a 73-year-old woman in a Fort Worth Walmart parking lot
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PORT ST. LUCIE, Fla. - Port St. Lucie police are looking for two people who robbed an elderly woman at gunpoint. It happened at the Walmart on NW Saint Lucie West Boulevard at 5:40 p.m., according to Master Sgt. Frank Sabol, spokesman for the police department
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Police: Elderly woman robbed at knifepoint in parking lot of Richmond Walmart
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UNIONTOWN, Pa. —A second sister charged in a southwestern Pennsylvania purse-snatching that broke the hip of an 82-year-old woman who died months later has pleaded guilty as part of an agreement with prosecutors. Prosecutors said Brittany Boyd took Mary Yourchik's purse from her shopping cart outside a Wal-Mart
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By the way.. I found these examples on the first page of a google search.. and that's just the first four.. there were more.

Wait.. here you go..

Lee County Sheriff's Office Chief Deputy Lewis Harris tells FOX 31 that a 78-year-old woman was robbed in the parking lot of Wal-Mart on Ledo Road
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—
Police in Albemarle say they are interviewing possible suspects in a robbery that may have sent an elderly woman to the hospital with serious heart problems.

The woman, who is 75, was leaving the Walmart on Leonard Drive in Albemarle at 2:45 Wednesday afternoon when police say a man offered to return her shopping cart, then grabbed her purse and pushed her to the ground.
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jaeger19 said:
No statistically there a many more reasons to own a firearm than to not own one.
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Statistically, the gun you own is more likely to kill or injure you or a loved one than be used for protection.

Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9)
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Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
 
iguanaman said:
Now that you mention it, she could have got the message from you or someone like you. How would you feel if you were the one who told her she would be safer carrying a gun in her purse at Walmart or sold that mother the AR-15 that killed her and all those children in Sandy Hook? Would you be sorry?
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Had she got the message from me, she would have also gotten the message to carry in a holster and to train regularly.

Or maybe she read any of the numerous accounts of unarmed people that were murdered and...sunovagun...no cops were there to protect them. Or perhaps she read the numerous reports of armed citizens defending themselves. Regardless of her reasoning...the decision to own a firearm and carry a firearm was not erroneous...it was her manner in which she chose to do so. Sometimes people do stupid things, even with valuable tools. This appears to be one of those cases.

By all means...keep dancing in her blood as you try to promote your inane cause fueled by your hatred and bias. Tell me...who do you blame when someone gets in an auto accident while texting? Do you have a hard on for Apple? Maybe Motorola? What about when they kill someone drinking and driving...hey...the common thread IS cars after all. SO...Chevy? Ford? Oh...wait...I know...the United Auto Workers.
 
iguanaman said:
Statistically, the gun you own is more likely to kill or injure you or a loved one than be used for protection.



Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
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those studies have been thoroughly debunked. most of them included a "gun in the home" as one where an intruder or murderer brought the gun to the home and shot an occupant. IN one well known study it was that case in 431/436 of the incidents included in the study. its a tautology that if there is no gun present no one will be shot. suicide is a worthless statistic because countries with no guns have higher suicide rates than well armed America.


No one for a second believes your anti gun rants are based on a public safety issue. there is an obvious fact on this board-EVERY gun hater is a far lefty. its clear that the perceived politics of gun owners is what causes gun control to be an almost entirely far left agenda item
 
iguanaman said:
Statistically, the gun you own is more likely to kill or injure you or a loved one than be used for protection.



Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study
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Statistically that's not the only reason to own a weapon...it doesn't count the number of times that a weapon was used to defend a person from serious injury, or rape, etc.

Just a month after the shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary, President Obama called for an assessment of the existing research on gun violence and recommendations for more studies. Now, that assessment is out, and it delves deeply into what research shows us about why gun violence happens in this country – and also into how well the defensive use of guns work.

Citing four separate studies between 1988-2004, the assessment from the Institute of Medicine and the National Research Council says crime victims who use guns in self-defense have consistently lower injury rates than victims who use other strategies to protect themselves (other strategies include stalling, calling the police or using weapons such as knives or baseball bats).
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In the most recent of those studies, Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck and University of New Haven professor of criminal justice Jongyeon Tark, examined whether the defensive use of guns resulted in property loss, minor injury to a victim, or serious injury. Kleck and Tark found that using a gun reduced the risk of all three, and that injury resulted from self-protection with a gun in only 10 percent of cases.
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Now.. add to that the use of firearms for hunting purposes, for collecting, for target practice and for competitive shooting... and just plain old fashioned fun?

Lot more reasons to own one than to not own one.
 
This is one of those things that just goes to prove, you can't make laws to account for every single instance of stupidity.

Tragic accident and I really feel for the kid, to know you shot your own mom... just horrific.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

Deuce said:
What? I don't think you understand what the "chamber" of a gun is. Not having a round in the chamber doesn't mean you don't have any bullets.
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The point of carrying a gun, is to be able to react to a threat immediately. If the weapon isn't locked and loaded, the time it takes to lock and load can inhibit your ability to respond to a threat.
 
jaeger19 said:
Sure.. she could have decided to put a lock on the purse, and then.. when she was mugged in the parking lot.. she is raped and killed in front of her 2 year old because she could get the gun out in time.

Pointing out.. there are tradeoffs in carrying a weapon for self defense. It has to be accessible, it has to be able to be fired without tremendous effort.. like fumbling with a difficult safety, or racking a round into the chamber. Sometimes fractions of seconds count... and it has to be secure from being taken from you by someone else either a perp or a toddler.

If everytime something happened with a child.. it was automatically the parents fault for being irresponsible... every parent would be considered irresponsible.
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We're not talking about every time here. This thread is about this one, specific, case. And in this case it looks like the mother who left her unsecured gun in her purse in a shopping basket with a 2-year old child is responsible for her own death.

Who else would you like to blame? :roll:


This was not an accident. The lady in this story is dead because she failed to secure her gun.
 
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iguanaman said:
True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?
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Do you expect anyone to believe you honestly subscribe to that tripe?
 
Lutherf said:
I wouldn't say that this woman was generally irresponsible. She was simply irresponsible at that moment and THAT is why I wanted to discuss firearm safety basics in this thread. Too often we get comfortable with the things we do every day and when we get too casual about our safety (and, as a result, the safety of those around us) accidents can turn tragic.

From what I've read this woman was using a new rig but also the type of rig she'd be familiar with under different circumstances. Her comfort with a purse overrode her comfort with daily carry and the results were catastrophic.

This isn't about bashing people who carry or even people who make mistakes. It's simply a stark reminder of why you need to keep your head in the game the whole time you're playing.
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Of course she was irresponsible. She had a loaded weapon in her purse and left her purse where her son could get to it.

In what way shape or form was she a responsible gun owner?

Was it tragic for her and all involved, hell yes.

But if we act like she was not irresponsible - it is open season on all gun owners.

The fact that she was irresponsible with her gun around her children is just FITH.
 
paddymcdougall said:
I'm in favor of more gun control laws and more gun safety measures, as many of you know. But about the only thing though that could have helped in this case was trigger locks, I'm thinking.
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In Heller, the Supreme Court already ruled that being forced to keep the gun in an unready state defeats practical use of the gun and thus violates the 2nd Amendment.

Try again.
 
iguanaman said:
True. Perhaps she was a CIA agent and had someone after her. Otherwise she was a fool to think she needed to carry a gun in her purse while shopping with her children at a Walmart. I wonder where she got that idea?
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If she had someone after her, why would she leave her gun unattended with her kids in tow. If I had a CCP for my protection, and I was carrying it in a purse, it would be in a crossbody purse that I had easy access to it - and I had control of my weapon.

To see this as any less than the act of someone who was irresponsible with her firearm is an affront to all the responsible gun owners (that are in the vast majority).
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

ReverendHellh0und said:
Every pistole I own has a manual safety.

Condition 1 carry is far more safe than crappy glock type trigger safeties.
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I have two 1911s as my handguns and they have safeties. Nevertheless, I always have them at Condition 3 for an extra layer of safe.
 
iguanaman said:
Then you would agree that those people who are not willing or don't have the time or responsibility to "train and practice" etc. should not own a gun and should be told so. The idea that a gun = protection is what I object to. It is a double edged sword. There are at least as many reasons NOT to own a gun as there are to own one.
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This woman had taken a class, which also required range time, so your point is moot.
 
CRUE CAB said:
When you buy a new or used gun from a gun store in Florida, they give you a yellow pamphlet outlining the rules as far as minors and guns.
Yet, these things can and do happen.
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They happen because some people never bother to read and follow the instructions in those pamphlets because they don't have time for that BS.
 
Re: Mom Shot, Killed By 2-Year-Old Son at Walmart

PoS said:
I have two 1911s as my handguns and they have safeties. Nevertheless, I always have them at Condition 3 for an extra layer of safe.
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I guess that would depend on where in your purse you keep it and the age of the toddler in your basket. ;)


I kid


but yeah, If I am carrying it's condition 1.
 
year2late said:
In what way shape or form was she a responsible gun owner?
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She wasn't a responsible gun owner, and now she's dead as a result. IMO that's the end of the story, nothing else to see or do about it.
 
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