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Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

Lutherf

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Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

This is just a horribly tragic story and the reason it's so tragic is because it was so preventable.

I'm the VP of the local chapter of an organization that provides professional education for those in my career field. Every month our board meets to discuss the topics that we'll be covering in our seminars and inevitably we have a lot of interest in new topics and exciting topics and flashy topics. Hey, those topics put asses in the seats and that's part of our job. But there is another part of our job and that's to make sure that those who are member of our organization or attend our events are performing at the highest professional standards they can and in order to achieve that standard we also need to constantly reinforce the basics.

I'm a tax and accounting guy. I can run through your financial data faster than you can run a comb through your hair and can not only spot an anomaly from a mile away but can usually tell you why it's out of whack half an hour before I hit my billing minimum. That being said, I'm also human and when I get too used to doing the same thing the same way all the time that's when I get dangerous. I suspect that's what happened in Hayden and why some 2 year old no longer has a mommy.

Folks, if you're going to carry a firearm then you need to pay attention to the basics. It's how you protect others and yourself from tragedy caused by complacency. I'd like to use this thread to clarify and discuss the basics of daily carry and I'd like to hear, primarily, from those who do carry every day. I'd also like those who don't carry to ask questions so that we can address your concerns.

For starters, when you carry you need to be in control of your weapon. That means you don't hand it to someone else or leave it on the toilet tank. You don't just dump it into your purse or your pocket. You keep that weapon in such a manner that you KNOW it's safe, secure and under your immediate control. The specifics of how you do that are often dependent on exactly what kind of weapon you're carrying but one of the basics is your holster. USE ONE!!

Simply stuffing a pistol in your waistband or purse might look cool in the movies but it's stupid. Even a decent level I holster will provide more security than your waistband. As a minimum it should be enough to cover the trigger guard so that nothing can get stuck in there accidentally. It should also be made for the firearm you're using it with so that everything fits and stays secure.

One other thing, once your weapon is in its holster and under your control DON'T **** WITH IT! There is no need to play pocket pool with your pistol. The pistol doesn't care and isn't going to feel neglected. Leave it alone unless you absolutely need to use it. If you have to take it off for some reason (entering an area where firearms are prohibited, for example) then take it off pistol and holster together. This is a good reason for those who carry IWB to use clip on holsters.

This is just one suggestion. Please feel free to add more.
 
Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

This is just a horribly tragic story and the reason it's so tragic is because it was so preventable.

I'm the VP of the local chapter of an organization that provides professional education for those in my career field. Every month our board meets to discuss the topics that we'll be covering in our seminars and inevitably we have a lot of interest in new topics and exciting topics and flashy topics. Hey, those topics put asses in the seats and that's part of our job. But there is another part of our job and that's to make sure that those who are member of our organization or attend our events are performing at the highest professional standards they can and in order to achieve that standard we also need to constantly reinforce the basics.

I'm a tax and accounting guy. I can run through your financial data faster than you can run a comb through your hair and can not only spot an anomaly from a mile away but can usually tell you why it's out of whack half an hour before I hit my billing minimum. That being said, I'm also human and when I get too used to doing the same thing the same way all the time that's when I get dangerous. I suspect that's what happened in Hayden and why some 2 year old no longer has a mommy.

Folks, if you're going to carry a firearm then you need to pay attention to the basics. It's how you protect others and yourself from tragedy caused by complacency. I'd like to use this thread to clarify and discuss the basics of daily carry and I'd like to hear, primarily, from those who do carry every day. I'd also like those who don't carry to ask questions so that we can address your concerns.

For starters, when you carry you need to be in control of your weapon. That means you don't hand it to someone else or leave it on the toilet tank. You don't just dump it into your purse or your pocket. You keep that weapon in such a manner that you KNOW it's safe, secure and under your immediate control. The specifics of how you do that are often dependent on exactly what kind of weapon you're carrying but one of the basics is your holster. USE ONE!!

Simply stuffing a pistol in your waistband or purse might look cool in the movies but it's stupid. Even a decent level I holster will provide more security than your waistband. As a minimum it should be enough to cover the trigger guard so that nothing can get stuck in there accidentally. It should also be made for the firearm you're using it with so that everything fits and stays secure.

One other thing, once your weapon is in its holster and under your control DON'T **** WITH IT! There is no need to play pocket pool with your pistol. The pistol doesn't care and isn't going to feel neglected. Leave it alone unless you absolutely need to use it. If you have to take it off for some reason (entering an area where firearms are prohibited, for example) then take it off pistol and holster together. This is a good reason for those who carry IWB to use clip on holsters.

This is just one suggestion. Please feel free to add more.

Absolutely rule number one!
 
I have been in that WalMart. It is 40 mins from my house.

This is so awful. There were 3 other siblings who were probably older and they witnessed their mother being shot.

It is another one of those accidents that occur in 2 seconds and will affect lives forever. Almost too much to handle.
 
This is crazy and why some people like me are nervous about owning a gun and having a gun around kids. My mom and dad had a gun in our house, and I grew up never knowing it. I never found the gun or knew where it was. It seems insanely irresponsible to me to keep a gun in your purse if you have kids. Anybody can reach in there, and little kids do that. When my niece was two, she'd pick up purses and sling them over her shoulder. OMG.
 
Terrible tragedy. I own 2 1911s and these guns have manual safeties on them but even then I dont chamber a round- Im not a cop so Im not expecting a quick draw and fire situation and I have trained myself doing the Isreali draw (which is racking the slide as you draw) so this means that the only possible way my son could accidentally fire this gun is that he needs to chamber a round before pulling the trigger, and he isnt strong enough to do that. Guns need to be treated carefully, especially when you have young children around- this tragedy could have easily been prevented.
 
This is awful, I am not against a person owning a gun for protection, but why don't use their heads. This little boy will go through life knowing he shot and killed his mother. This woman paid with her life for her stupidity.
 
I don't understand not having the safety on when a gun is in the purse. ESPECIALLY with kids around. So many stories of guns getting dropped and firing, much less the many things that can go wrong with kids.

On comments on the article on one site, several posters said not all guns have safeties. But if you are a parent - especially with young kids - how could you buy a gun without a safety?

I feel very sorry for this family. And the op is right- it was so easily preventable.

I suppose there are lots of parents carrying guns, shopping in WalMart, whose kids never fire their guns. But please - take all precautions when carrying such dangerous items.
 
I don't understand not having the safety on when a gun is in the purse. ESPECIALLY with kids around. So many stories of guns getting dropped and firing, much less the many things that can go wrong with kids.

On comments on the article on one site, several posters said not all guns have safeties. But if you are a parent - especially with young kids - how could you buy a gun without a safety?

I feel very sorry for this family. And the op is right- it was so easily preventable.

I suppose there are lots of parents carrying guns, shopping in WalMart, whose kids never fire their guns. But please - take all precautions when carrying such dangerous items.

Mechanical safeties are an academic discussion. Guns don't have them anymore because they do little to improve safety and take time to take off under stress when you need your gun.

As far as guns firing when dropped, all modern handguns have internal safeties that keep the firing pin away from the cartridge until the trigger is pulled, modern handguns, like post 1965, should not just go off from being dropped
 
Mechanical safeties are an academic discussion. Guns don't have them anymore because they do little to improve safety and take time to take off under stress when you need your gun.

As far as guns firing when dropped, all modern handguns have internal safeties that keep the firing pin away from the cartridge until the trigger is pulled, modern handguns, like post 1965, should not just go off from being dropped
Although I prefer having manual safeties on my guns I agree that its debatable as to its effectiveness. I think the more important aspect is whether you chamber a round in a semi-auto or not. Personally I think if youre not a cop there's no reason to do so if you want to be really safe, especially if you have small kids.
 
Although I prefer having manual safeties on my guns I agree that its debatable as to its effectiveness. I think the more important aspect is whether you chamber a round in a semi-auto or not. Personally I think if youre not a cop there's no reason to do so if you want to be really safe, especially if you have small kids.

It depends on what you're comfortable with. If you're carrying a Glock and can't keep your hands off the damned thing it's probably better to carry condition 3. Otherwise most pistols are perfectly safe to carry condition 1. WRT the kids....don't have the damned pistol where they can get their hands on it! If you're carrying somewhere that's not on your body then don't put the package down.

I'm assuming that this woman had the gun in her purse and the purse in the shopping cart. If so that's wrong on a several levels but at the top of the list is that she wasn't in control of the weapon.
 
This article has the most ridiculous quote I've ever read:

"She was not the least bit irresponsible. She was taken much too soon."

Leaving a loaded weapon in easy reach of a child isn't irresponsible? Wow. Is that what they would have said if the child shot one of his cousin's - that the mother wasn't being an absolute moron for letting the situation unfold?

Darwin Award. Good thing it wasn't one of the kids. Apparently it was just waiting to happen.
 
This article has the most ridiculous quote I've ever read:

"She was not the least bit irresponsible. She was taken much too soon."

Leaving a loaded weapon in easy reach of a child isn't irresponsible? Wow. Is that what they would have said if the child shot one of his cousin's - that the mother wasn't being an absolute moron for letting the situation unfold?

Darwin Award. Good thing it wasn't one of the kids. Apparently it was just waiting to happen.

before my now 16 year old son became skilled with pistols, we kept the bedroom defense gun in a easy access safe. I also kept a SW 45 in my nightstand with the magazine on my person. that SW will not fire without the magazine in it but I could easily load it if need be. Leaving a ready to fire pistol anywhere an untrained child can get it is moronic
 
This article has the most ridiculous quote I've ever read:

"She was not the least bit irresponsible. She was taken much too soon."

Leaving a loaded weapon in easy reach of a child isn't irresponsible? Wow. Is that what they would have said if the child shot one of his cousin's - that the mother wasn't being an absolute moron for letting the situation unfold?

Darwin Award. Good thing it wasn't one of the kids. Apparently it was just waiting to happen.
Of course it wasn't responsible, you gonna go say that in person to the family?

They're grieving ok, that's why things like that are said, respect for the dead and all
 
Although I prefer having manual safeties on my guns I agree that its debatable as to its effectiveness. I think the more important aspect is whether you chamber a round in a semi-auto or not. Personally I think if youre not a cop there's no reason to do so if you want to be really safe, especially if you have small kids.

I carry revolvers, so I stay out of the chambered v empty debate
 
Of course it wasn't responsible, you gonna go say that in person to the family?

They're grieving ok, that's why things like that are said, respect for the dead and all

In public, anyway.
 
I carry revolvers, so I stay out of the chambered v empty debate

old six shooters were always carried with an empty chamber under the hammer. it didn't slow down your shot and it was a safety act because the old SAs could shoot if the hammer was hit

I carry a SA SIG 9mm with the chamber empty and I practice weekly drawing it and racking the slide as I shoot. its still under 1.5 seconds to draw and shoot from an IWB Stoner (Turtle endorsed-a local maker) holster
 
Once I had my first kid I got my gun out of my house. Once my kids are old enough I might bring it back. It is a peace of mind thing for me.
 
old six shooters were always carried with an empty chamber under the hammer. it didn't slow down your shot and it was a safety act because the old SAs could shoot if the hammer was hit

I carry a SA SIG 9mm with the chamber empty and I practice weekly drawing it and racking the slide as I shoot. its still under 1.5 seconds to draw and shoot from an IWB Stoner (Turtle endorsed-a local maker) holster
Well I would never carry a gun without a transfer bar or fire pin block safety, my revolvers are all modern double action, I carry all chambers loaded, I have no qualms about doing so.

I know the cowboy action guns should be carried that way, although ruger now makes the vaquero with a transfer bar safety that is safe to carry all six
 
This article has the most ridiculous quote I've ever read:

"She was not the least bit irresponsible. She was taken much too soon."

Leaving a loaded weapon in easy reach of a child isn't irresponsible? Wow. Is that what they would have said if the child shot one of his cousin's - that the mother wasn't being an absolute moron for letting the situation unfold?

Darwin Award. Good thing it wasn't one of the kids. Apparently it was just waiting to happen.

I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.
 
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I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.

I love the hysterical gun banners trying to blame the NRA for this.

and your moronic statistics are moronic
you are far more likely to survive unhurt an encounter with a criminal if you are armed. and killing a criminal is not the only way to survive an attack

Look, we get the fact that you are afraid of guns and despise gun owners for not being far left socialists

but your silly rants about the NRA without having any clue why this woman had a gun are specious BS
 
I'm sorry but I don't see here death as inevitable. She bought the NRA kool-aid and is dead for it. I'm sure she actually believed that her gun could never hurt her only make her safer. That is what the NRA is selling..peace of mind. It doesn't include any of the "ugly" side of gun ownership and neither do gun dealers. Like that fact that your own gun is 10 times more likely to kill you or a loved one than a bad guy. If she had known the risks she would probably be alive today...a lot of people would. Guns are not for everyone, and selling them like appliances is criminal negligence.
Of course you WOULD come in to dance in the blood of a dead woman to further your own ideological hatred. The fact that you know nothing about the woman or her belief system but have no problem assigning your own personal bias and hatred to her speaks volumes of you.
 
Really really sad. Say in an alternate universe, where this lady was more responsible..or perhaps didn't have the gun, she would be alive
It's always someone else, until it isn't. :/
 
Really really sad. Say in an alternate universe, where this lady was more responsible..or perhaps didn't have the gun, she would be alive
It's always someone else, until it isn't. :/
Hopefully this story will cause every person that chooses to carry a firearm to assess and reassess their procedures and tighten up.

We had a military spouse leave a weapon in her purse and her purse in her car while she ran in to the shoppette on post. Similar situation...toddler accidental discharge into the roof of the car. Could have been much more tragic.
 
Toddler shoots and kills mother in Hayden Walmart

This is just a horribly tragic story and the reason it's so tragic is because it was so preventable.

I'm the VP of the local chapter of an organization that provides professional education for those in my career field. Every month our board meets to discuss the topics that we'll be covering in our seminars and inevitably we have a lot of interest in new topics and exciting topics and flashy topics. Hey, those topics put asses in the seats and that's part of our job. But there is another part of our job and that's to make sure that those who are member of our organization or attend our events are performing at the highest professional standards they can and in order to achieve that standard we also need to constantly reinforce the basics.

I'm a tax and accounting guy. I can run through your financial data faster than you can run a comb through your hair and can not only spot an anomaly from a mile away but can usually tell you why it's out of whack half an hour before I hit my billing minimum. That being said, I'm also human and when I get too used to doing the same thing the same way all the time that's when I get dangerous. I suspect that's what happened in Hayden and why some 2 year old no longer has a mommy.

Folks, if you're going to carry a firearm then you need to pay attention to the basics. It's how you protect others and yourself from tragedy caused by complacency. I'd like to use this thread to clarify and discuss the basics of daily carry and I'd like to hear, primarily, from those who do carry every day. I'd also like those who don't carry to ask questions so that we can address your concerns.

For starters, when you carry you need to be in control of your weapon. That means you don't hand it to someone else or leave it on the toilet tank. You don't just dump it into your purse or your pocket. You keep that weapon in such a manner that you KNOW it's safe, secure and under your immediate control. The specifics of how you do that are often dependent on exactly what kind of weapon you're carrying but one of the basics is your holster. USE ONE!!

Simply stuffing a pistol in your waistband or purse might look cool in the movies but it's stupid. Even a decent level I holster will provide more security than your waistband. As a minimum it should be enough to cover the trigger guard so that nothing can get stuck in there accidentally. It should also be made for the firearm you're using it with so that everything fits and stays secure.

One other thing, once your weapon is in its holster and under your control DON'T **** WITH IT! There is no need to play pocket pool with your pistol. The pistol doesn't care and isn't going to feel neglected. Leave it alone unless you absolutely need to use it. If you have to take it off for some reason (entering an area where firearms are prohibited, for example) then take it off pistol and holster together. This is a good reason for those who carry IWB to use clip on holsters.

This is just one suggestion. Please feel free to add more.
The gun was in her purse, not her pocket.

This is just another reason why purse'carry is felony-stupid.
 
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