NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends

[anatta]

The 13-year NATO combat mission in Afghanistan formally ended Sunday with a ceremonial retirement of its green flag and a pledge by top officials of the U.S.-led coalition to remain reliable partners in Afghanistan’s unfinished war against the Taliban and other militant groups.

Campbell and other Western officials stressed that their chief function under the new mission, named Resolute Support, will be to advise, train and assist Afghan security forces. They said, however, that a separate “non-NATO” contingent of U.S. forces will participate in force protection, logistical support and counterterrorism activities.

The Taliban responded to the transition event with glee. In a lengthy statement issued Sunday night by a Taliban spokesman, the insurgent group gloated at the final departure of a “haughty” superpower that “thought it had already won the war and that the Mujaheddin would never . . . think of putting up a fight.”

NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends - The Washington Post

While remaining NATO forces will have a formal mission of providing training and "assistance" to Afghan forces, a separate U.S. force will continue to provide security, logistical support, and engage in "counterterrorism."

In other words a limited combat role for U.S. forces will continue. Five thousand Americans will remain with the NATO contingent of 12,000, while 5,500 U.S. troops will remain in the separate, combat role. In other words, no, the U.S. war in Afghanistan is not over.

 

[JANFU]

NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends - The Washington Post

While remaining NATO forces will have a formal mission of providing training and "assistance" to Afghan forces, a separate U.S. force will continue to provide security, logistical support, and engage in "counterterrorism."

In other words a limited combat role for U.S. forces will continue. Five thousand Americans will remain with the NATO contingent of 12,000, while 5,500 U.S. troops will remain in the separate, combat role. In other words, no, the U.S. war in Afghanistan is not over.

About 12 years to late.

 

[MMC]

NATO flag lowered in Afghanistan as combat mission ends - The Washington Post

While remaining NATO forces will have a formal mission of providing training and "assistance" to Afghan forces, a separate U.S. force will continue to provide security, logistical support, and engage in "counterterrorism."

In other words a limited combat role for U.S. forces will continue. Five thousand Americans will remain with the NATO contingent of 12,000, while 5,500 U.S. troops will remain in the separate, combat role. In other words, no, the U.S. war in Afghanistan is not over.

Heya AT. :2wave: Did you see or hear BO's speech on Afghanistan. He claimed it as a success. :roll:

While the Taliban laugh and talk about how BO negotiates to end the War they say isn't over.

Our troops are going to be hard pressed having to watch out for the Taliban and with the re-emergence of AQ in Afghanistan.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

About damn time. How about instead of leaving these troops behind to provide "training" and "assistance" we bring them home. Afghan will remain the graveyard of empires, and those empires include America.

 

[anatta]

Heya AT. :2wave: Did you see or hear BO's speech on Afghanistan. He claimed it as a success. :roll:

While the Taliban laugh and talk about how BO negotiates to end the War they say isn't over.

Our troops are going to be hard pressed having to watch out for the Taliban and with the re-emergence of AQ in Afghanistan.

It's not a success, but it's not a utter failure either. It's a work in progress, and we are still there to transition, and provide support.

The ANSF have been taking heavy losses ( 5000 this year + 3000 police), so these aren't a bunch of Iraqi cowards either.
They've been able to hold or retake ground. The US keeping air support and MEDVACS is a big deal too.
We are going true counter -terrorism now.

While I would never have gone the "nation building route ( counter-insurgency) and would have gone counter-terrorism like we are doing now;Afghan society is much better then it was before.
The army is cohesive, there are newspapers/women in Parliament, successful election, a unity gov't, etc.

With Paki's determined offensive against the TTP Taliban in the Waziristans ,
there is a chance here that Afghan will eventualy come out of the feudal warlord phase to some type of national gov't.
Which I'd like to see both for international terrorism concerns, and for the much beleaguered Afghan people.

The Pashtun nationalism though, and the Taliban make this far from over or a guarantee. Far from over, but far from a defeat either.

Obama is spinning a "successful end "to the war" as his usual crap speak, and I've long since quit paying attention to him,
but all in all the situation is much better now then it has been for a long time with the Paki cooperation, and the Afghan new unity gov't.

Thank great Buddha Karzai is out of there....hope for the best expect the worse at this point , my friend

 

[JANFU]

It's not a success, but it's not a utter failure either. It's a work in progress, and we are still there to transition, and provide support.

The ANSF have been taking heavy losses ( 5000 this year + 3000 police), so these aren't a bunch of Iraqi cowards either.
They've been able to hold or retake ground. The US keeping air support and MEDVACS is a big deal too. We are going true counter -terrorism.

While I would never have gone the "nation building route ( counter-insurgency) and would have gone counter-terrorism like we are doing now;
Afghan society is much better. The army is cohesive, there areewspapers/women in Parliament.

With Paki's determined offensive against the TTP Taliban in the Waziristans ,
there is a chance here that Afghan will eventualy come out of the feudal warlord phase to some type of national gov't.
Which I'd like to see both for international terrorism concerns, and for the much beleaguered Afghan people.

The Pashtun nationalism though, and the Taliban make this far from over or a guarantee. Far from over, but far from a defeat either.

Obama is spinning a "successful end "to the war" as his usual crap speak, and I've long since quit paying attention to him,
but all in all the situation is much better now then it has been for a long time with the Paki cooperation, and the Afghan new unity gov't.
Thank great Buddha Karzai is out of there....hope for the best expect the worse at this point , my friend

Staying in AStan after the Taliban were toasted was and is a complete failure.
How many killed.
How many injured.
How many tens of billions spent that supported corruption.
After the Taliban were sent on there way, the coalition should have loaded up, got on a plane and left them to kill each other.

 

[anatta]

AStan was and is a complete failure.
How many killed.
How many injured.
How many tens of billions spent that supported corruption.
After the Taliban were sent on there way, the coalition should have loaded up, got on a plane and left them to kill each other.

2300 US.KIA

Like I mentioned I wouldn't have gone the Bush route (nation building), but we did.

Was it worth it? prolly not in the sense of trying to build that society, but it's far from a "complete failure".

we've killed a lot of AQ types, it's not a breeding ground for international terrorism anymore ( although some Taliban have gone to Syria).

I'm cautiously optimistic the place can come out of 30 years (Soviet occupation forward) of horrors to a slow transition to the modern world,
even as a Sharia Muslim society. If it became even something like Pakistan, it would be at least a decent outcome

 

[JANFU]

2300 US.KIA

Like I mentioned I wouldn't have gone the Bush route (nation building), but we did.

Was it worth it? prolly not in the sense of trying to build that society, but it's far from a "complete failure".

we've killed a lot of AQ types, it's not a breeding ground for international terrorism anymore ( although some Taliban have gone to Syria).

I'm cautiously optimistic the place can come out of 30 years (Soviet occupation forward) of horrors to a slow transition to the modern world,
even as a Sharia Muslim society. If it became even something like Pakistan, it would be at least a decent outcome

Pakistan supported the Taliban for years, during the war as well.
After the fall of the Taliban, everyone should have ffd off at the high port
They created a number of terrorist orgs. firstly for Kashmir and india that have come back to haunt them.
Pakistan is completely dysfunctional and with nukes.

 

[anatta]

Pakistan supported the Taliban for years, during the war as well.
After the fall of the Taliban, everyone should have ffd off at the high port
They created a number of terrorist orgs. firstly for Kashmir and india that have come back to haunt them.
Pakistan is completely dysfunctional and with nukes.

ya. I know the ISI supported the Taliban in an attempt to keep hegemony over Afgh.
The Pakistani Taliban were "bad," while others, whose forays across Pakistan's borders served the the military, were "good."

You do know about the Peshawar shootings, as well as the Karachi airport bombing earlier this year? they are game changers.

This means that the other ethnic groups (Punjabis, Sindis and Baluch) that jointly account for more than 80 percent of Pakistan’s population have begun to see the Taliban as a regional terrorist group, rather than a national Islamist movement
‘The last straw’ — Pakistan turns against terror | New York Post

 

[JANFU]

ya. I know the ISI supported the Taliban in an attempt to keep hegemony over Afgh.
The Pakistani Taliban were "bad," while others, whose forays across Pakistan's borders served the the military, were "good."

You do know about the Peshawar shootings, as well as the Karachi airport bombing earlier this year? they are game changers.

No they are not. Look to the Mumbai bombings/killings and the terrorist in Pakistani jail that was released then it was reversed around the same time as a the school murders.

 

[anatta]

No they are not. Look to the Mumbai bombings/killings and the terrorist in Pakistani jail that was released then it was reversed around the same time as a the school murders.

yes, but that was a court decision if I understand? I'm not here to defend Pakistan, but I think you missed this, this is more then just rhetoric:
I can't c/p all 20 points ( at this link ) Pakistan announces a national plan to fight terrorism, says terrorists’ days are numbered - The Washington Post

These are very significant...I'm not gonna comment on each one, as I'm sure you understand enough to see there significance.

Which at least leaves some room for more optimism in Afgh, as to the conditions that have finally changed there too that I listed in above post.

 

[apdst]

About damn time. How about instead of leaving these troops behind to provide "training" and "assistance" we bring them home. Afghan will remain the graveyard of empires, and those empires include America.

And let it turn into the biggest terrorist safe haven in the world, again? Yeah, that's going to have a happy ending.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

And let it turn into the biggest terrorist safe haven in the world, again? Yeah, that's going to have a happy ending.

Biggest? Naaa. That belongs to the unstable states of Syria and Iraq, and maybe Libya.

 

[anatta]

Biggest? Naaa. That belongs to the unstable states of Syria and Iraq, and maybe Libya.

ISIL is in Derna, Libya. Not just Islamists, but actual jihadi.

All this from the civil war the US and NATO created there with our "humanitarian war" mandate from the UN. ( killing Qadaffi )

he fighters are taking advantage of political chaos to rapidly expand their presence westwards along the coast, Libyan sources tell CNN

ISIS comes to Libya - CNN.com
the Derna branch of ISIS counts 800 fighters and operates half a dozen camps on the outskirts of the town, as well as larger facilities in the nearby Green Mountains, where fighters from across North Africa are being trained..

Derna today looks identical to Raqqa, the ISIS headquarters town in Syria" an analyst says...

It has been bolstered by the return to Libya from Syria and Iraq of up to 300 Libyan jihadists who were part of ISIS' al Battar Brigade -- deployed at first in Deir Ezzor in Syria and then Mosul in Iraq. These fighters supported the Shura Council for the Youth of Islam in Derna, a pro-ISIS faction.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

ISIL is in Derna. Libya. Not just Islamists, but actual jihadi.

All this is besides the civil war the US and NATO created there with our "humanitarian war" mandate from the UN. ( killing Qadaffi )

Sometimes getting involved in other countries civil wars leads to bigger problems and more unstable countries. Lets just hope the chickens dont come home to roost, but they may of already begun the journey...

 

[Van Basten]

It's always so hard for us to break away from that craphole of a region, when will we learn....

 

[RDS]

Who won the war?

 

[MMC]

Who won the war?

Mornin' RDS. :2wave: I would say the Taliban, and with BO sending More Gitmo Taliban detainees back to the battlefield it looks like we will still be fighting in this conflict for some time to come.

Lets not forget those who were left as Gitmo detainees are the worst of the bunch and BO already released the Cream of the Crop.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Biggest? Naaa. That belongs to the unstable states of Syria and Iraq, and maybe Libya.

Obama's Arab Spring and Obama's Iraq.

What a great idea from the Nobel Peace Prize recipient, seedlings of terrorism around the globe.

 

[apdst]

Biggest? Naaa. That belongs to the unstable states of Syria and Iraq, and maybe Libya.

And what do Iraq and Afghanistan have in common?

 

[iacardsfan]

Even though the combat mission is over, the US will not be fully out for another 2 years plus. So yay for ending the combat mission, boo US.

 

[MMC]

It's not a success, but it's not a utter failure either. It's a work in progress, and we are still there to transition, and provide support.

The ANSF have been taking heavy losses ( 5000 this year + 3000 police), so these aren't a bunch of Iraqi cowards either.
They've been able to hold or retake ground. The US keeping air support and MEDVACS is a big deal too.
We are going true counter -terrorism now.

While I would never have gone the "nation building route ( counter-insurgency) and would have gone counter-terrorism like we are doing now;Afghan society is much better then it was before.
The army is cohesive, there are newspapers/women in Parliament, successful election, a unity gov't, etc.

With Paki's determined offensive against the TTP Taliban in the Waziristans ,
there is a chance here that Afghan will eventualy come out of the feudal warlord phase to some type of national gov't.
Which I'd like to see both for international terrorism concerns, and for the much beleaguered Afghan people.

The Pashtun nationalism though, and the Taliban make this far from over or a guarantee. Far from over, but far from a defeat either.

Obama is spinning a "successful end "to the war" as his usual crap speak, and I've long since quit paying attention to him,
but all in all the situation is much better now then it has been for a long time with the Paki cooperation, and the Afghan new unity gov't.

Thank great Buddha Karzai is out of there....hope for the best expect the worse at this point , my friend

It's not? A Work in Progress to what? He told the Troops from Hawaii that the World is safer, and that's going into 2015. Even Bob Woodward is back out slamming BO over that statement. Saying how is that when BO has declared War on ISIS.....and for still thinking the War on Terror is over with.

 

[danarhea]

About 12 years to late.

I disagree with you on this. Although I have been hard on Bush for invading Iraq, his war in Afghanistan was the good war. Don't forget that these are the assholes who gave bin Laden a base to work from, and who protected him after 911. I give kudos to Bush on this one.

 

[JANFU]

I disagree with you on this. Although I have been hard on Bush for invading Iraq, his war in Afghanistan was the good war. Don't forget that these are the assholes who gave bin Laden a base to work from, and who protected him after 911. I give kudos to Bush on this one.

10's of thousands killed and maimed, approx 1 Trillion in costs. The cesspool will revert to being a cesspool.
1 report I recall reading was the costs of drilling a water well. Ran as high as 1/4 of a million after bribes and all.
Once Bin Laden left, the Coalition should have left as well.


Rampant corruption.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/12/w...m-corruption-is-part-of-the-bargain.html?_r=0

 

[JANFU]

yes, but that was a court decision if I understand? I'm not here to defend Pakistan, but I think you missed this, this is more then just rhetoric:
I can't c/p all 20 points ( at this link ) Pakistan announces a national plan to fight terrorism, says terrorists’ days are numbered - The Washington Post

These are very significant...I'm not gonna comment on each one, as I'm sure you understand enough to see there significance.

Pakistan has all the information needed to prosecute. They dragged this out for 6 years.

BBC News - Mumbai attack 'leader' wins Pakistan appeal

The alleged leader of the 2008 militant attacks on Mumbai has won an appeal against his detention in Pakistan.

Lawyers for Zaki-ur-Rehman Lakhvi said a government detention order issued last week infringed his rights, as he had been granted bail by another court.

Analysts say he could be freed as soon as the paperwork is completed.

India says a Pakistani militant group carried out the attacks, which killed 165. Pakistan has not convicted anyone suspected of planning the attacks.

Mr Lakhvi is among seven suspects who have been in jail awaiting trial for six years. Nine others have been charged in absentia.

Analysts say the decision to grant him bail came at an embarrassing time for the Pakistani government.

Pakistan's Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif recently promised to crack down on militancy after the Taliban killed 141 people at a school in Peshawar.
Which at least leaves some room for more optimism in Afgh, as to the conditions that have finally changed there too that I listed in above post.[/QUOTE]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/w...es-of-spy-data-but-an-uncompleted-puzzle.html
In the fall of 2008, a 30-year-old computer expert named Zarrar Shah roamed from outposts in the northern mountains of Pakistan to safe houses near the Arabian Sea, plotting mayhem in Mumbai, India’s commercial gem.

Mr. Shah, the technology chief of Lashkar-e-Taiba, the Pakistani terror group, and fellow conspirators used Google Earth to show militants the routes to their targets in the city. He set up an Internet phone system to disguise his location by routing his calls through New Jersey. Shortly before an assault that would kill 166 people, including six Americans, Mr. Shah searched online for a Jewish hostel and two luxury hotels, all sites of the eventual carnage.

But he did not know that by September, the British were spying on many of his online activities, tracking his Internet searches and messages, according to former American and Indian officials and classified documents disclosed by Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor.