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Police: Officer in Missouri shot, Killed man who Pulled Gun..... [W:22]

whysoserious said:
(Snipped quote to save space)

I agree with that, though I don't think there is a question that we have a problem with law enforcement.

Regarding the community - I think that's a big key to fixing this country. It's a huge elephant in the room that no one talks about, because if you talk about it one way you're racist, and if you talk about it the other way you're a race baiter. It's a problem that I would leave to sociologists for the most part, because they have the ability to see the bigger picture and the historical knowledge to understand it. However, I think it has to address a few issues:

1) The continued segregation
2) Continued racial tensions
3) Unequal education opportunities
4) Residual effects of Jim Crow

It's crazy for me to realize I was born 2 decades after it was illegal for blacks and whites to share a water fountain in my town. And I think it's even crazier to think that just because that generation is aging now, we should have all moved on. Clearly people haven't moved on, and unless we have these types of conversations, racism will have just moved from out in the public to in back rooms, and problems with violence will continue to be blamed on "black thugs" or "corrupt cops".
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We cant move forward, let alone 'move on' if we arent willing to address the problems. If the dialogue consists of "white people bad" then that will be as effective and productive as "black people bad".

I agree completely there are changes and I completely understand the conflict and struggles most inner city black communities face. I've said that for several years here...there are real problems and they should be addressed.
 
VanceMack said:
We cant move forward, let alone 'move on' if we arent willing to address the problems. If the dialogue consists of "white people bad" then that will be as effective and productive as "black people bad".

I agree completely there are changes and I completely understand the conflict and struggles most inner city black communities face. I've said that for several years here...there are real problems and they should be addressed.
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The only way to move foward is to address the possibility that racism is an problem that is inherent in the society of the United States.
 
VanceMack said:
Cops dont see this cute guy holding his mama...

they see a guy carrying this pointing it at people.
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I just don't see the logical step in either case to be shooting the person before they can explain themselves (though I was not aware that Crawford had pointed the toy gun at people).
 
VanceMack said:
We cant move forward, let alone 'move on' if we arent willing to address the problems. If the dialogue consists of "white people bad" then that will be as effective and productive as "black people bad".

I agree completely there are changes and I completely understand the conflict and struggles most inner city black communities face. I've said that for several years here...there are real problems and they should be addressed.
Click to expand...

I agree. That's why, even though both sides are being dramatic about it, if this whole thing leads to an honest and open discussion about police profiling and issues within the black community then I'm happy about it.

Though I have a feeling it will just end with people calling each other names.
 
whysoserious said:
(Snipped quote to save space)

I agree with that, though I don't think there is a question that we have a problem with law enforcement.

Regarding the community - I think that's a big key to fixing this country. It's a huge elephant in the room that no one talks about, because if you talk about it one way you're racist, and if you talk about it the other way you're a race baiter. It's a problem that I would leave to sociologists for the most part, because they have the ability to see the bigger picture and the historical knowledge to understand it. However, I think it has to address a few issues:

1) The continued segregation
2) Continued racial tensions
3) Unequal education opportunities
4) Residual effects of Jim Crow

It's crazy for me to realize I was born 2 decades after it was illegal for blacks and whites to share a water fountain in my town. And I think it's even crazier to think that just because that generation is aging now, we should have all moved on. Clearly people haven't moved on, and unless we have these types of conversations, racism will have just moved from out in the public to in back rooms, and problems with violence will continue to be blamed on "black thugs" or "corrupt cops".
Click to expand...

You can't address an allegedly institutional problem that isn't real and I've discovered that you can't discuss those things with people around here who perceive them to be true. In my experience, they always try to force you to accept the faulty premise that those (1, 3, and 4) are real-world and institutional issues rather than self-imposed problems.
 
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MMC said:
Indeed it is tragic.
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Yeah. :(

Oh sorry about that.....I forgot about the dripping sarcasm smilie.
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Wow, dude, WTF.

apdst said:
You're not familiar with section 5 districts? If not, you should be and if you choose not to inform yourself, that's your problem.
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Knock it off. You're in no position to lecture me. Read this and get back to me.
 
Napoleon said:
You can't address an allegedly institutional problem that isn't real and I've discovered that you can't discuss those things with people around here who perceive them to be true. In my experience, they always try to force you to accept the faulty premise that those (1, 3, and 4) are real-world and institutional issues rather than self-imposed problems.
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So you believe these are all self-imposed or did I read that wrong?
 
VanceMack said:
We cant move forward, let alone 'move on' if we arent willing to address the problems. If the dialogue consists of "white people bad" then that will be as effective and productive as "black people bad".
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the old "We can criticize you, but you can't criticize us" defensiveness.

I agree completely there are changes and I completely understand the conflict and struggles most inner city black communities face. I've said that for several years here...there are real problems and they should be addressed.
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Please tell me right now that you are a black person who was brought up in poverty. Because if not, the highlighted phrase is one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on this website. Seriously, whatever credibility you had on the subject of race just vaporized.
 
whysoserious said:
I just don't see the logical step in either case to be shooting the person before they can explain themselves (though I was not aware that Crawford had pointed the toy gun at people).
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so you want the police to wait and see if they actually fire the gun at them first?

it isnt enough that someone is brandishing a weapon?

you do realize when people point weapons at other people, usually the intent is to shoot them.....right?
 
gdgyva said:
so you want the police to wait and see if they actually fire the gun at them first?

it isnt enough that someone is brandishing a weapon?

you do realize when people point weapons at other people, usually the intent is to shoot them.....right?
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Wouldn't you assess the situation first? For instance, in the case of Rice who was standing in the open: how about take cover and use the loud speaker? It was conveyed that he probably had a toy gun.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Lots of people go to trial without going thru the grand jury process. And most people who go through the GJ process DO go to trial. Unless they're cops.
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Yes, thats why Officer Wilson was no billed.

He was a Cop.....

I wonder if you people truly understand just how dangerous your level of naivete and gullibility is to the rest of Society.

Its bad enough you get to vote, but whats worse is some of the clap trap and false narratives you people hold on to have already led to the murder of two innocent Human beings.

The only way Stupid people continue to have this kind of impact on our Society is due to their overwhelming numbers.

Its like Common sense and reason and the value of truth and integrity is being bred out of the American people.
 
Phys251 said:
Ah yes, the old "We can criticize you, but you can't criticize us" defensiveness.



Please tell me right now that you are a black person who was brought up in poverty. Because if not, the highlighted phrase is one of the most ignorant comments I have ever seen on this website. Seriously, whatever credibility you had on the subject of race just vaporized.
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How you can get to "We can criticize you, but you can't criticize us" from If the dialogue consists of "white people bad" then that will be as effective and productive as "black people bad" is beyond me.

Boy, you dont know **** about me or where I was raised, how I was raised or what circumstances I grew up in and around. But that chip on your shoulder is certainly indicative of who and what you are. Run along now. We are having an actual conversation.
 
whysoserious said:
I agree. That's why, even though both sides are being dramatic about it, if this whole thing leads to an honest and open discussion about police profiling and issues within the black community then I'm happy about it.

Though I have a feeling it will just end with people calling each other names.
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I think you are right.
 
whysoserious said:
I wouldn't argue that the riots detract form the point.
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And so do manufactured narratives about " Police brutality " and " racism ".

All this nonsense detracts from the real issues that are affecting black communities.

More blame centered around lies while Black on black violence, poverty, high drop out rates and high levels of illegitimacy go on ignored.

It just guarantees that nothing will change.
 
Fenton said:
And so do manufactured narratives about " Police brutality " and " racism ".

All this nonsense detracts from the real issues that are affecting black communities.

More blame centered around lies while Black on black violence, poverty, high drop out rates and high levels of illegitimacy go on ignored.

It just guarantees that nothing will change.
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You are acting as if police brutality and racism don't actually exist.
 
Kobie said:
You are acting as if police brutality and racism don't actually exist.
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You have to ask what is enabling the police to be militarized and where the training is coming from

You also have to ask why blacks and Hispanics are succumbing to higher arrests. There is institutional racism that is a direct result of social policy, the policies in place are doing the exact opposite of the policies attention. The war on drugs is destroying the communities, and there is a lot more police officers hired into higher crime places causing arrests and violence to increase.

We can't blame the everyday cop, we can't blame the American people, what we need to do is blame the policies that are causi all of this to occur
 
Libertie76 said:
You have to ask what is enabling the police to be militarized and where the training is coming from

You also have to ask why blacks and Hispanics are succumbing to higher arrests. There is institutional racism that is a direct result of social policy, the policies in place are doing the exact opposite of the policies attention. The war on drugs is destroying the communities, and there is a lot more police officers hired into higher crime places causing arrests and violence to increase.

We can't blame the everyday cop, we can't blame the American people, what we need to do is blame the policies that are causi all of this to occur
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For the most part, I absolutely agree with that.
 
VanceMack said:
How you can get to "We can criticize you, but you can't criticize us" from If the dialogue consists of "white people bad" then that will be as effective and productive as "black people bad" is beyond me.

Boy, you dont know **** about me or where I was raised, how I was raised or what circumstances I grew up in and around. But that chip on your shoulder is certainly indicative of who and what you are. Run along now. We are having an actual conversation.
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Aaaaannnd here comes the white defensiveness. Like clockwork.

And no, I am not going to just go away. Not until you deal with your gross lack of understanding of race and racism.
 
Phys251 said:
Aaaaannnd here comes the white defensiveness. Like clockwork.

And no, I am not going to just go away. Not until you deal with your gross lack of understanding of race and racism.
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Nothing in my comments to you is defensive, nor is there a reason to BE defensive. Its entirely comical you interpreted the conversation I was in as defensive. Like I said...speaks VOLUMES of you.
 
Phys251 said:
Aaaaannnd here comes the white defensiveness. Like clockwork.

And no, I am not going to just go away. Not until you deal with your gross lack of understanding of race and racism.
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What can you add to this understanding?
 
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