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One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle[W:132]

Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Gaius46 said:
One - I'm not a leftist.

Two - How are their constitutional protections being violated?
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Appointing a special prosecutor would be violating their rights.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

apdst said:
Appointing a special prosecutor would be violating their rights.
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No it wouldn't. NYC had a special prosecutor who dealt with police issues until the late 80s. It came out of the Knapp Commission investigation of police corruption after the attempted murder of Det. Frank Serpico in the early 70s. That office reported to the governor and was eventually disbanded for budgetary reason, or so it was alleged. No one ever suggested there were Constitutional issues with it.

There are no rights violations here. What a special prosecutor does is get someone who is not part of system to look at cops' actions. That should bring more transparency, fairness and justice to the system
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Gaius46 said:
No it wouldn't. NYC had a special prosecutor who dealt with police issues until the late 80s. It came out of the Knapp Commission investigation of police corruption after the attempted murder of Det. Frank Serpico in the early 70s. That office reported to the governor and was eventually disbanded for budgetary reason, or so it was alleged. No one ever suggested there were Constitutional issues with it.

There are no rights violations here. What a special prosecutor does is get someone who is not part of system to look at cops' actions. That should bring more transparency, fairness and justice to the system
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So, you want a politically appointed special prosecutor to work these cases instead of an elected district attorney? What good wrong?
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

apdst said:
So, you want a politically appointed special prosecutor to work these cases instead of an elected district attorney? What good wrong?
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So if we're in agreement that there are no Constitutional issues here then the question is who would be more effective - an elected DA who works daily with the officers he'd have to indict, or an appointed DA who may be subject to political pressure.

First you have to realize that elected DAs are just as subject to political pressures are appointed ones. Maybe more so as an elected DA may treat high profile cases differently because they affect his chances of re-election. Secondly the local DA works
day in and day out with the officers he may have to indict. The potential conflict of interest should be obvious. So while a special prosecutor may been less than perfect my opinion would be that the chances of a just outcome are much greater with a special prosecutor than with the one who is part of the system he would have to investigate.

John Keenan, now a Federal District Judge in New York, was one of the special prosecutors who handled NYPD cases back in the day. He was almost universally considered a fair and impartial prosecutor.

Edit: Interesting debate on the topic in the New York Times recently: http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat...ike-eric-garners-require-a-special-prosecutor
 
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Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Gaius46 said:
So if we're in agreement that there are no Constitutional issues here then the question is who would be more effective - an elected DA who works daily with the officers he'd have to indict, or an appointed DA who may be subject to political pressure.

First you have to realize that elected DAs are just as subject to political pressures are appointed ones. Maybe more so as an elected DA may treat high profile cases differently because they affect his chances of re-election. Secondly the local DA works
day in and day out with the officers he may have to indict. The potential conflict of interest should be obvious. So while a special prosecutor may been less than perfect my opinion would be that the chances of a just outcome are much greater with a special prosecutor than with the one who is part of the system he would have to investigate.

John Keenan, now a Federal District Judge in New York, was one of the special prosecutors who handled NYPD cases back in the day. He was almost universally considered a fair and impartial prosecutor.

Edit: Interesting debate on the topic in the New York Times recently: Do Cases Like Eric Garner's Require a Special Prosecutor? - Room for Debate - NYTimes.com
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No, we're not in agreement, unless you can point out the constitutionality of appointing a special prosecutor with any given American citizen.

You want a rigged system.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Tettsuo said:
Do you have a quote or not?

No?

Got it.

Protesting police violence does NOT equal acceptance or violence against police. The protest in NYC was virtually violence free, why would De Blasio bitch about that?
It is our legal right as citizens of the USA to protest. Would you prefer that De Blasio goes against the Bill of Rights?
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Do you think the public comments de Blasio made about his son and the police were helpful in any way?
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

apdst said:
No, we're not in agreement, unless you can point out the constitutionality of appointing a special prosecutor with any given American citizen.

You want a rigged system.
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The fact that the NYPD and the NYPD PBA didn't challenge the Special Prosecutor in court during the entire 17 years we had should tell you all you need to know about whether it's Constitutional or not. If the PBA thought it had any prayer of winning it would have filed suit immediately.

I could suggest that you want a rigged system. But I won't. I'd rather believe you really think a local DA is fairer.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

apdst said:
Not like this guy was, unless you're going to jump on the it's Sarah Palin's fault wagon.
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I remember when the left wing media blamed Sarah Palin's "violent rhetoric" for the shooting of Giffords.

I remember when posters on here blamed Clive Bundy for the shooting in Las Vegas, too.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

eohrnberger said:
The fact is that it's most certainly not 'open season' for LEOs on black youth. The statistics prove it, yet it's such a racially loaded and emotional narrative, the response has been to riot, burn, and loot.

Watch Michael Brown’s Stepdad Order Ferguson Blacks To “Burn This Mother****er Down!” Over And Over Again, After Verdict

Well, now there are 2 dead cops. Shot while they were in their cruiser just sitting there while on duty.

This whole thing is starting to turn into a tinderbox, just waiting for the next spark.

Where's that spark going to come from? Sharpton? Jackson? Obama? The next justified police shooting?

I wouldn't be surprised if the NYC police all caught the blue flu for 2 days, and just let everything go wild, which you know it would. All of a sudden, various neighborhood engaged in protests would want the cops back, and might even stop protesting.
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They wanted dead cops. They got their wish.
 
mike2810 said:
One New York City police officer is dead and another was in critical condition today after they were shot as they sat in their patrol vehicle in the Bedford Stuyvesant neighborhood of Brooklyn, city officials said.
The suspect in the shooting was also dead, of a self-inflicted gunshot wound, the officials said."

Two NYPD Cops Dead After They Were Shot in Vehicle - ABC News
2 NYPD officers shot, killed in cop car shooting | Fox News
Two New York police officers killed, gunman dead: NY Times | Reuters

A very sad day for NYPD. I hope the families will be taken care of.

While not much is know since the event just took placed and the investigation is just underway. The suspected shooter is dead from a self inflicted gunshot and a firearm was recovered.

What stood out with the initial reports is no mention of the shooters or police officer's race. Maybe it will come out later. Just found it interesting after all the coverage of police officer shootings and choke hold.
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The more that police do something wrong, the more that they will have reactions like that. I am by no means excusing the shooter, but the actions of some of the police (exacerbated by the lack of disciplinary actions by their supervisors) has contributed to the anger of the people.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Tettsuo said:
Made by an angry father who felt his son was unjustly killed.

Reasonable at the time.
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He isn't Michael Brown's father. And no, you don't get to call for destruction of property by an angry mob because you're upset.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

tres borrachos said:
They wanted dead cops. They got their wish.
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And now they want to walk away from it, without a shred of responsibility. (The protesters, Sharpton, Jackson, et. al.)
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

ReverendHellh0und said:
One thing I noticed, the media's need to say this was an actual "revenge killing". Correct me if I am wrong, but this guy was a career criminal who shot his girlfriend and was on the run.

This was "suicide by cop" while trying to make a name for himself, the savage didn't care about the issue.
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"I'm putting wings on a pig today. They take 1 of ours..... Let's take 2 of theirs #ShootThePolice #RIPErivGardner [sic] #RIPMikeBrown This may be my final post, I'm putting pigs in a blanket,"

But it's possible he couldn't care less about the issue. I'll make the same claims about the morons who looted in Ferguson and most of the protestors in NYC. They were using the deaths of Brown and Garner to advance their personal agendas against police, IMO.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

eohrnberger said:
And now they want to walk away from it, without a shred of responsibility. (The protesters, Sharpton, Jackson, et. al.)
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I'm still shaking my head at all the Sharpton apologists on this board. And people who are more concerned about defending de Blasio than expressing outrage at the deaths of these 2 innocent men.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

tres borrachos said:
I'm still shaking my head at all the Sharpton apologists on this board. And people who are more concerned about defending de Blasio than expressing outrage at the deaths of these 2 innocent men.
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When I read this from deBlasio -
“Let’s accompany these families on their difficult journeys. Let’s see them through the funerals. Then, debate can begin again,” he said. “I think it’s a time for everyone to put aside political debates, put aside protests, put aside all of the things that we will talk about in all due time.”
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but 3 weeks ago he was fine with protests regarding the Garner decision - Bill De Blasio Responds To Eric Garner Grand Jury Decision
it makes me want to puke.

Why should we put politics aside now but feel free to ride the lightning 3 weeks ago? Why is it when 2 cops are flat out assassinated we need to put politics aside but when some street urchin dies while resisting arrest and a grand jury, acting fully within the law, finds that there was no reason to put the cops on trial we need to "peacefully protest" police violence and take actions to make sure that "no such tragedy happens again".
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

tres borrachos said:
I'm still shaking my head at all the Sharpton apologists on this board. And people who are more concerned about defending de Blasio than expressing outrage at the deaths of these 2 innocent men.
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Yes, pointing out that Sharpton never called for violence is being an "apologist."
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The more that police do something wrong, the more that they will have reactions like that. I am by no means excusing the shooter, but the actions of some of the police (exacerbated by the lack of disciplinary actions by their supervisors) has contributed to the anger of the people.
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- Not all the police actions the protesters are marching on were wrong. (imo)

- Choke hold incident was a questionable actions.

I will corrected your post. "has contributed to the anger of some of the people.".

You seem to be justifying without excusing the action of the shooter. Got to ask then

For example , if the actions of "some" of the looters/thieves angers the business community, can the business community put a hit out on looters, while not excusing the action of crime of committing the hit ? :mrgreen:
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

tres borrachos said:
I'm still shaking my head at all the Sharpton apologists on this board.
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I know, it's amazing what happens when people say outright lies and falsehoods and attempt to talk about situations in hyperbole and exaggeration. It's like...people give a damn about actually dealing with facts and reality, and have issues with people who distort and issue for political purposes, and thus will call it out even if they may not like the person who's being unfairly attacked.

Crazy. Damn apologists! They should shut up and let people say provably false things like saying Al Sharpton led protesters in cheering for dead cops. :roll:

If people were actually criticizing Sharpton in a semi-reasonable way based on actual things that really happened then there'd probably be less people "defending" Sharpton from such attacks. The reason you see so many "apologists" for him is because so many of the attacks against him are over the top and/or based on fraudulent information.
 
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Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Zyphlin said:
I know, it's amazing what happens when people say outright lies and falsehoods and attempt to talk about situations in hyperbole and exaggeration. It's like...people give a damn about actually dealing with facts and reality, and have issues with people who distort and issue for political purposes, and thus will call it out even if they may not like the person who's being unfairly attacked.

Crazy. Damn apologists! They should shut up and let people say provably false things like saying Al Sharpton led protesters in cheering for dead cops. :roll:

If people were actually criticizing Sharpton in a semi-reasonable way based on actual things that really happened then there'd probably be less people "defending" Sharpton from such attacks. The reason you see so many "apologists" for him is because so many of the attacks against him are over the top and/or based on fraudulent information.
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It isn't fraudulent to say Sharpton has culpability for the climate in this country. You're confusing the people who claim he led that march in NYC with well documented other facts.

I've known about Sharpton for decades. This didn't just happen yesterday and it didn't just start with Garner.

Please complain to the people who claimed he led the march in NYC. I never made that claim and I will stand by my comments about and my opinion of Sharpton, and my comments about all of the people who are very concerned with him being held responsible for anything in this matter.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Kobie said:
Yes, pointing out that Sharpton never called for violence is being an "apologist."
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It has been pointed out how this scum, perhaps in a veiled way has called for and GOTTEN in the past. The fact that you choose to ignore these facts perhaps would lead some to believe that you applaud or at least condone these acts. For example the killing of a seminary student in Crown Heights by a mob of 20 or the killing of 5 owners/workers at a store in Harlem.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Lutherf said:
When I read this from deBlasio -

but 3 weeks ago he was fine with protests regarding the Garner decision - Bill De Blasio Responds To Eric Garner Grand Jury Decision
it makes me want to puke.

Why should we put politics aside now but feel free to ride the lightning 3 weeks ago? Why is it when 2 cops are flat out assassinated we need to put politics aside but when some street urchin dies while resisting arrest and a grand jury, acting fully within the law, finds that there was no reason to put the cops on trial we need to "peacefully protest" police violence and take actions to make sure that "no such tragedy happens again".
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I saw de Blasio's hypocritical words. It's okay for him to demand others put politics aside, but not for him to do it when it's politically expedient for him.

I'm really struggling to understand how nobody takes issue with what happened. Anyone with half a brain knew that all of the ugly words and protests and looting and rioting and anger and calling out the cops and all the rest was going to result in something like this. I feel so terrible for the families of those 2 innocent men. Merry Christmas.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

washunut said:

It has been pointed out how this scum, perhaps in a veiled way has called for and GOTTEN in the past. The fact that you choose to ignore these facts perhaps would lead some to believe that you applaud or at least condone these acts. For example the killing of a seminary student in Crown Heights by a mob of 20 or the killing of 5 owners/workers at a store in Harlem.
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So now Sharpton "calling for violence" in completely unrelated incidents 24 years ago (the Crown Heights riots were in 1991) somehow inspired the cop shooter.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

Lutherf said:
When I read this from deBlasio -

but 3 weeks ago he was fine with protests regarding the Garner decision - Bill De Blasio Responds To Eric Garner Grand Jury Decision
it makes me want to puke.

Why should we put politics aside now but feel free to ride the lightning 3 weeks ago? Why is it when 2 cops are flat out assassinated we need to put politics aside but when some street urchin dies while resisting arrest and a grand jury, acting fully within the law, finds that there was no reason to put the cops on trial we need to "peacefully protest" police violence and take actions to make sure that "no such tragedy happens again".
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Garner was long dead and in the ground when the grand jury verdict came down. The cops haven't even been buried yet.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

tres borrachos said:
It isn't fraudulent to say Sharpton has culpability for the climate in this country. You're confusing the people who claim he led that march in NYC with well documented other facts.

I've known about Sharpton for decades. This didn't just happen yesterday and it didn't just start with Garner.

Please complain to the people who claimed he led the march in NYC. I never made that claim and I will stand by my comments about and my opinion of Sharpton, and my comments about all of the people who are very concerned with him being held responsible for anything in this matter.
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Your opinion of people who complain about police brutality is pretty well known.
 
Re: One NYPD Cop Dead, Another Critical After They Were Shot in Vehicle

tres borrachos said:
I saw de Blasio's hypocritical words. It's okay for him to demand others put politics aside, but not for him to do it when it's politically expedient for him.

I'm really struggling to understand how nobody takes issue with what happened. Anyone with half a brain knew that all of the ugly words and protests and looting and rioting and anger and calling out the cops and all the rest was going to result in something like this. I feel so terrible for the families of those 2 innocent men. Merry Christmas.
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So your solution is that the public should never protest outrages by the police because somewhere some nutcase might decide to take revenge? Got it.
 
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