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Missouri school punished blind child by replacing cane with pool toy

Okay, you think it's great that the school took away the cane from a blind kid.
Is it dishonesty which led you to a conclusion I've directly refuted multiple times? I never said anything like that at all, but that didn't stop you from lying about it anyways.

Humiliation by noodle isn't my idea of an appropriate way to deal with this.
No, your idea is to bastardize what anyone has said and use your lies to ascribe to them positions they never took, all because you discovered your dealing with someone who knows far more about what happens at a school than you do.

I'm glad you teach kids with vision impairments.
I'm glad you don't work in schools. We already have enough problems with students lying, the last thing we need is more adults doing it too.
 
Is it dishonesty which led you to a conclusion I've directly refuted multiple times? I never said anything like that at all, but that didn't stop you from lying about it anyways.

No, your idea is to bastardize what anyone has said and use your lies to ascribe to them positions they never took, all because you discovered your dealing with someone who knows far more about what happens at a school than you do.

I'm glad you don't work in schools. We already have enough problems with students lying, the last thing we need is more adults doing it too.

I'm sorry - usually when someone defends actions outlined in a story that means they think what happened is great. I didn't realize you were one of those posters who posts cryptic messages and I'm supposed to read between the lines to understand what you're really saying.

By the way, everyone keeps talking about the lies that were told - now including you. What lies were told here specifically? And what are the facts that everyone is missing in this story? And what did this child lie about?
 
He doesn't need his cane to sit in a seat. If he gets agitated without something to hold, then something like a noodle, which he can't hurt anyone with, is an acceptable substitute. Unless he was expected to also use it as a mobility aid, which is completely unacceptable.
 
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He doesn't need his cane to sit in a seat. If he gets agitated without something to hold, then something like a noodle, which he can't hurt anyone with, is an acceptable substitute. Unless he was expected to also use it as a mobility aid, which is completely unacceptable.

Generally, blind people use canes as a sensory aid - to explore the space around them for obstacles. Not to lean on. Unless this child has another disability than blindness, a pool noodle could certainly be used to poke around and explore his surroundings. Is it as good as a cane? Nope, but it seems to me that it would be usable. Is it potentially embarrassing to have a large, neon-colored, floppy pool noodle rather than a sleek, functional blind-man's cane? Sure. But if the hitting charge is credible, then removal of the weapon and a little embarrassment are certainly reasonable consequences for that wrong action.

-AJF
 
Whether he hit someone or not, taking away the cane is a violation of his rights as a disabled person. That can get the power of the Feds dropped on your head.
 
I'm sorry
You should be. Your posts in this thread are an egregious affront to decency and intelligence.
- usually when someone defends actions outlined in a story that means they think what happened is great.
Usually when someone says, verbatim, "No, my argument is that we don't know the real story. So it would be unwise to pass judgment on anyone.", then it means their argument is that they don't know the real story and it would be unwise to pass judgment.

I didn't realize you were one of those posters who posts cryptic messages
There was nothing cryptic at all about what I said. If you think me explicitly saying, "No, my argument is that we don't know the real story. So it would be unwise to pass judgment on anyone." is cryptic, then that sounds like the problem isn't so much with honesty, but rather with intelligence.

and I'm supposed to read between the lines to understand what you're really saying.
No one wants you to read between the lines, I want you to read what I actually say and not create a strawman fallacy.

Is that really so hard for you?
 
You should be. Your posts in this thread are an egregious affront to decency and intelligence.
Usually when someone says, verbatim, "No, my argument is that we don't know the real story. So it would be unwise to pass judgment on anyone.", then it means their argument is that they don't know the real story and it would be unwise to pass judgment.

There was nothing cryptic at all about what I said. If you think me explicitly saying, "No, my argument is that we don't know the real story. So it would be unwise to pass judgment on anyone." is cryptic, then that sounds like the problem isn't so much with honesty, but rather with intelligence.

No one wants you to read between the lines, I want you to read what I actually say and not create a strawman fallacy.

Is that really so hard for you?

Oh, so you don't think what they did was right then. Then why didn't you just say so?

I missed the lies you mentioned. What lie did this child tell exactly? You still haven't said. And what is the "real story" I've missed. They really didn't take away his cane? That isn't what the school said. So tell me what I've missed (and spare me the righteous indignation in the posts). Just say it.
 
Generally, blind people use canes as a sensory aid - to explore the space around them for obstacles. Not to lean on. Unless this child has another disability than blindness, a pool noodle could certainly be used to poke around and explore his surroundings. Is it as good as a cane? Nope, but it seems to me that it would be usable. Is it potentially embarrassing to have a large, neon-colored, floppy pool noodle rather than a sleek, functional blind-man's cane? Sure. But if the hitting charge is credible, then removal of the weapon and a little embarrassment are certainly reasonable consequences for that wrong action.

-AJF

Apparently his parents objected to the size of the noodle. They said he couldn't grasp it because of the size. We have pool noodles which are put away, but I also have trouble wrapping my hand around one. And I'm a lot bigger than this child is.

If the school felt he needed something to keep his hands occupied, I'm not sure a pool noodle is the best choice for that either. They can also hurt when you're hit with them.
 
An oldie: at least they didn't make him read the waffle iron.
 
And if a child hits another with an object, we take the object away.

Except you would have to justify the removal of the accommodation under the legal protections afforded to students with disabilities.
 
Except you would have to justify the removal of the accommodation under the legal protections afforded to students with disabilities.

My company had to make a multi-million dollar investment in one of our major products (software) due to the Dodd-Frank reform that requires the removal of greens and reds on the screens in order for color blind people to be able to process what they need to. Color blind people. Imagine what they would think of forcibly removing this blind child's cane assuming that's what happened?
 
I know most school buses come with cameras these days. Have you seen the footage? Do you know the student didn't hit another with the cane?


SO ****ING WHAT?


is that appropriate treatment? Humiliation might be a prerequisite in the schools you attend but this is grotesque! This is punishment not discipline.

Kids hit kids all the time. This kid is totally blind, it's not like he's going to become a serial hitter or some ****.

What the **** do they do with able bodied kids? Take away their clothes?

You know what this is? This is about dealing with 'special needs'. It's much more work and time consuming and the "professionals" in education hate it. They're just taking it out on a blind kid, the sick bastards.
 
I'm glad you don't work in schools. We already have enough problems with students lying, the last thing we need is more adults doing it too.

Oh stop it. Let's not act like you have any high ground on this subject. Some of us already know your attitude toward students with disabilities. Spare us the teacher pedestal act. You practically act like Section 504 and IDEA should be abolished.
 
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I never said you did. Not everything is adversarial.

No, my argument is that we don't know the real story. So it would be unwise to pass judgment on anyone.

I work at a school in Missouri. So if we're comparing who has more authority on this topic...
But they don't keep them. They return them at the end of the day, or when a parent comes to pick up the item.

It's incredibly relevant. The school purchased the cane for the student to help the student...but if the student is just using it as a weapon, they have every right to take it back.

We have taken away kids access to the Internet at school numerous times, which prevents them from doing their research online, forcing them to use extra effort to get their assignment done. So don't tell me schools don't do this kind of thing.

I didn't say that. I said an aide is better for a student than a cane, and that's 100% correct.

I teach students with vision impairments. Again, if we're comparing who has more authority on the topic...
They didn't take his eyes, they took the weapon.
Is he using the crutches to assault another student?

No, it's just another example of how those who want to be outraged will always find a way to do so, and the facts be damned.

No, this is another example of improperly disciplining a child. More evidence that there are people working in our school system that have absolutely no business doing so.
 
It certainly demonstrates that common sense (never mind common decency) isn't all that common.
 
Whether he hit someone or not, taking away the cane is a violation of his rights as a disabled person. That can get the power of the Feds dropped on your head.

A child using a cane as a weapon doesn't have the right to hold onto it, no.
 
So should a child using a wheelchair as a weapon be removed out of that chair?
 
I know most school buses come with cameras these days. Have you seen the footage? Do you know the student didn't hit another with the cane?

when you don't have any eyes, I suppose you do whatever you have to do to get by. Taking the kid's cane in unjustified, no matter what he did.
 
I don't, but I'm not the one passing judgment.

So we have the word of someone who was actually there against the parent who wasn't there.

I know whose word I'm more likely to take, especially if the bus has cameras like many do these days.

I'm not supporting anything.

That doesn't mean they were in the wrong, it just means it's easier than dealing with a bunch of crap, not to mention prevents a frivolous lawsuit which would cost the school loads of money.

Maybe the school was in the wrong, I don't know. But that's the difference...I'm not saying they were or were not in the wrong because I don't know. Let's compare to how you've handled it...

So you don't have any idea whether the child was hitting someone or if he has hit others before, but you're going to go ahead and take sides anyways.

I guess that's just the difference between us...I prefer facts and you prefer quick outrage and name-calling.
And if a child hits another with an object, we take the object away.

I suspect this child has an aide with him 100% of the time he's at school. I doubt the punishment is as bad as some of you are trying to make it sound.

You 'suspect'? You 'doubt'? Well, that's enough for me.
 
So should a child using a wheelchair as a weapon be removed out of that chair?

Unless the school has magically found a way to eliminate the equal access barriers with another accommodation....well, I think we know the answer to that ;)
 
A child using a cane as a weapon doesn't have the right to hold onto it, no.

They do have the right to use it, however. One could make a behavioral intervention, but that does not preclude the use of a cane for a disability accommodation. Schools have to provide an accommodation that meets the requirements of the law. A pool toy does not meet that requirement. They also have to go through a process to justify such interventions, which involves the parents and isn't something put together ad-hoc.

FAPE...it's good stuff.
 
They do have the right to use it, however. One could make a behavioral intervention, but that does not preclude the use of a cane for a disability accommodation. Schools have to provide an accommodation that meets the requirements of the law. A pool toy does not meet that requirement. They also have to go through a process to justify such interventions, which involves the parents and isn't something put together ad-hoc.

FAPE...it's good stuff.

And what if the kid just keeps hitting people?
 
Child with prosthetic leg kicks classmate. Quick, what's this lazy school administrator's disciplinary solution?
 
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