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U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

Kobie said:
/sigh

Assad and Gadaffi were engaged in mass extermination campaigns that threatened to destabilize an entire region. The Castros, not so much. Cuba is also 90 miles from our shores.

Are Fidel and Raoul nice guys? Absolutely not. But to put them on the same level as Assad and Gadaffi is a bit disingenuous, to say the least.
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"WHAT", no need to show how emotional you get...... Its not disingenuous at all. But it is BO peep playing hypocrite. Assad and Gadhafi were engaged in Mass extermination Campaigns????? Now that is some funny ****. Did you forget the Castros have been into mass extermination and have been doing it longer than both Assad and Gadhafi. Was there some reason you forgot to add that in when doing all that Naught and Naught you are into.

Do you have some validation of these Mass extermination campaigns they were running. Where is this Proof. Oh and again how was Gadhafi destabilizing a whole region? Same with Assad.....since they were the stability until some Rebel/Terrorists came along in both cases.

Do you know anything about Foreign affairs.....or do you just try and make **** up on the fly-by? :roll:
 
Fearandloathing said:
It is so unspoiled, so honest, I would hate to see it become another Dominican Republic or Barbados.
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It was unspoiled in 1955. In the meantime, communism has done this to Cuba.

lahabana.jpg
 
Grand Mal said:
(grin!)
We have them, too, but the shelf life is a couple of months, tops. I know several Canucks who bail every October to a more, um, salubrious climate in the US.
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They should come to San Diego, where the locals have banned winter altogether. I think it may have been a municipal referendum or something,.
 
MMC said:
How didn't it work? Where are they at economically, again? Their ideology has failed. Who can they turn to? Russia? NKorea? Who can help them turn things around?

Moreover how does BO's rhetoric stand up with his own words over Assad and Gadhafi. Castros are no different. How can BO accept one and not the other, huh?
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How did that rhetoric work out in Syria and Lebanon?
 
Dittohead not! said:
How did that rhetoric work out in Syria and Lebanon?
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That is another good point. Seems it hasn't taken hold with Syria.

Now there is no need to bring up BO and giving rockets and missiles to Hezbollah. At least Lebanon will hold a Democratic Election, huh?
 
MMC said:
That is another good point. Seems it hasn't taken hold with Syria.

Now there is no need to bring up BO and giving rockets and missiles to Hezbollah. At least Lebanon will hold a Democratic Election, huh?
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and perhaps Cuba will, too, eventually. It would be a first for that nation.
 
Fearandloathing said:
China has changed a great deal. The Chinese are very different, they LIKE totalitarian government. My late wife and I entertained a foreign exchange student who was afraid here because you seldom see police, no one stops anyone on the street to check papers and you can do way too many things without a permit.

She said she only felt safe in China, even Hong Kong was too "permissive".

They want to be left alone to make lots and lots of money to pay for their ancestors in heaven and have all the other decisions made for them.
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Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

You know, in some ways that doesn't sound like a bad idea! :lol: They sure put on an outstanding Olympic celebration when it was their turn, didn't they? :thumbs: I'll never forget that one for sheer grandeur! And building the Three Gorges Dam was an engineering marvel - they are not a backward people. My mother and sister visited China in the late 90s, and they were very impressed by the courtesy they were shown on their entire trip - even visiting the Great Wall on camel-back! I was sorry I couldn't go with them; too busy at work at that time, but I have the pictures they took. Wow!
 
soot said:
Awesome, awesome news.

My wife and I have been texting for the past 10 minutes about a trip down before it loses it's "old" Cuba vibe and becomes Disneyland South.
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That's a real danger, unfortunately.

Paul
 
MMC said:
We can hope they will have one.....like most were doing, already awaiting the Castro demise, huh?
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Given their age, I don't think we have long to wait. The question is, what will follow?
 
Fearandloathing said:
The more liberal government is happening, albeit slowly.

I too fell in love with the place, the people are among the best in the Caribbean. It is so unspoiled, so honest, I would hate to see it become another Dominican Republic or Barbados.

The music! So much so good and like you say in this tiny little venues. But the food......what they can do with ham and pickles is to die for.

And yes, I have been welcomed in few places as I have there, it seems to them Canadians rock.
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Yeah, they're glad you came and want you to enjoy yourself. When I win the lottery I'm gonna pick a Cuban ball team, say Santa Clara or Santiago, and follow it around the country through a season. Gotta learn more Spanish first, though.
 
US Conservative said:
Thats how it works with the left. They can't help themselves.
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That is not a left/right attribute. It's politics. Politics makes strange bedfellows and often leads to message inconsistency.

Sadaam Hussein had to go for human rights violations, but we installed and tolerate the new regime in Iraq, which remains a top 5 human rights violator. No one is advocating a change in leadership in China or Saudi Arabia, each major human rights violators. In 1973, we assisted in the overthrow of a duly elected leader in Chile, only to replace him with a ruthless dictator who was a pro at torture and "disappearing" people. Only President Carter attempted a foreign policy based on human rights. He was dismissed as naïve. Even he tolerated the Shah of Iran.

Sorry, pal, not everything is right is good; left is bad. You really need to be a bit more discerning in your criticisms lest you just look ignorant or simply a disingenuous party hack.
 
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polgara said:
Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

You know, in some ways that doesn't sound like a bad idea! :lol: They sure put on an outstanding Olympic celebration when it was their turn, didn't they? :thumbs: I'll never forget that one for sheer grandeur! And building the Three Gorges Dam was an engineering marvel - they are not a backward people. My mother and sister visited China in the late 90s, and they were very impressed by the courtesy they were shown on their entire trip - even visiting the Great Wall on camel-back! I was sorry I couldn't go with them; too busy at work at that time, but I have the pictures they took. Wow!
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No, not backward at all. In fact, the ancient word for whites translates into 'filthy beast', as European sailors were notoriously laden with disease, bugs and worms, they did not bathe nor wipe themselves.

In fact too, the first contact between Chinese and Europeans was not through Marco Polo at all, but Genghis Khan's people who occupied what is now Russia and the Ukraine as far west as Kiev. Have cabbage rolls this Christmas and thank Genghis, for they are no more than a Chinese dim sum dish, a mixture of rice, meat, and spices in a leaf wrap.

The Chinese had spread their metal working technology to Japan before Europe knew about steel and, of course, had invented paper before Jesus was born, and with sufficient caliber to make room dividers and walls.

I traveled there with a Canadian trade delegation in the 70's, first time under Communist control for any of us. We were treated like royalty, but never left without a "translator", always a beautiful woman who could charmingly dismiss protests. I awoke one morning to find an army of people with brooms, hundreds of them, sweeping the streets below and went out to catch some sound for radio. I was in the lobby when our "translator", fully dressed for business, accosted me to let me know that foreigners were not permitted in the street before a certain time. I am pretty sure the rooms were bugged.

The "safety" thing has a lot of xenophobia and paranoia in it, even when my wife and I traveled, I am "Gui Loh", 'white ghost', but she is "Lum col din", "foreign street walker'.

If you ever wondered how the North Koreans got so paranoid, remember they are more northern Chinese than Japanese.
 
fmw said:
It was unspoiled in 1955. In the meantime, communism has done this to Cuba.

View attachment 67177541
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Really?

You cherry pick a photo off the net and represent that as all of ****ing Cuba?

That's obstinate and ignorant, continuing a myth to justify childish and bullying treatment because they repelled an illegal invasion.

You've never been there and are too afraid to go.

In 1955 the ****ing American mafia ran the island, people were virtual slaves to crime bosses.

Clearly you never even bothered to wiki Cuba.
 
Obama apologized to a Communist dictator, Ruben Castro on top of everything

What a disgrace.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Really?

You cherry pick a photo off the net and represent that as all of ****ing Cuba?

That's obstinate and ignorant, continuing a myth to justify childish and bullying treatment because they repelled an illegal invasion.

You've never been there and are too afraid to go.

In 1955 the ****ing American mafia ran the island, people were virtual slaves to crime bosses.

Clearly you never even bothered to wiki Cuba.
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In what ways has communism made it better?
 
Fearandloathing said:
Really?

You cherry pick a photo off the net and represent that as all of ****ing Cuba?

That's obstinate and ignorant, continuing a myth to justify childish and bullying treatment because they repelled an illegal invasion.

You've never been there and are too afraid to go.

In 1955 the ****ing American mafia ran the island, people were virtual slaves to crime bosses.

Clearly you never even bothered to wiki Cuba.
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Las Vegas was run by the Mafia in the 60s and 70s

It didn't turn into a oppressive dictatorship.

The corporations took over after the Feds cracked down on organized crime.

Cuba's problems are a direct result of the policies that have been implemented by the Communist dictators that Obama just apologized to.
 
Lutherf said:
U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years | Reuters

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about this. We've had a rather odd relationship with Cuba ever since their fight for independence 100+ years ago but simple proximity makes some kind of normalization a matter of practicality.
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People in the US territories of Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are nervous. Closer in proximity to the US mainland. Presumably cheaper labor. Presumably a bargain on the currency exchange rate. The allure of vacationing in a tropical paradise with Spanish colonial charm but frozen in time back to the 1960s and previously off limits to American travelers. What will be the economic impact on American citizens living in the Caribbean US territories?

Many if not most Americans don't even realize US Virgin Islanders and Puerto Ricans are American citizens from birth. They cannot vote in Presidential elections, have only limited representation in congress (unless they relocated to one of the 50 states of DC) but the PR and USVI National Guard can sure be activated and sent to Afghanistan and Iraq to put their lives on the line defending America. I don't like excessive government spending but if Cuba starts to siphon off economic vitality from PR and the USVI, I thing some federal grants might be in order to temporarily stabilize the territorial economies. What exactly, I'm not sure. Maybe some school and college funding, police, hospital, cruise ship port fees waived and tax exemptions for businesses that open there.
 
Fearandloathing said:
No, not backward at all. In fact, the ancient word for whites translates into 'filthy beast', as European sailors were notoriously laden with disease, bugs and worms, they did not bathe nor wipe themselves.

In fact too, the first contact between Chinese and Europeans was not through Marco Polo at all, but Genghis Khan's people who occupied what is now Russia and the Ukraine as far west as Kiev. Have cabbage rolls this Christmas and thank Genghis, for they are no more than a Chinese dim sum dish, a mixture of rice, meat, and spices in a leaf wrap.

The Chinese had spread their metal working technology to Japan before Europe knew about steel and, of course, had invented paper before Jesus was born, and with sufficient caliber to make room dividers and walls.

I traveled there with a Canadian trade delegation in the 70's, first time under Communist control for any of us. We were treated like royalty, but never left without a "translator", always a beautiful woman who could charmingly dismiss protests. I awoke one morning to find an army of people with brooms, hundreds of them, sweeping the streets below and went out to catch some sound for radio. I was in the lobby when our "translator", fully dressed for business, accosted me to let me know that foreigners were not permitted in the street before a certain time. I am pretty sure the rooms were bugged.

The "safety" thing has a lot of xenophobia and paranoia in it, even when my wife and I traveled, I am "Gui Loh", 'white ghost', but she is "Lum col din", "foreign street walker'.

If you ever wondered how the North Koreans got so paranoid, remember they are more northern Chinese than Japanese.
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I like hearing about people's travels! Makes my life interesting because I may never get to visit many of those places! When my mom and sister were taken to see the Three Gorges Dam as part of their tour, they learned that individuals do not order from a menu when dining on a boat. The food was put on a revolving circular center table in big bowls and platters, and everyone took what they want from the offerings. The big bowls were not passed around person to person like we do at Thanksgiving, for instance, but it was more like a buffet, except they were seated on cushions on the floor, and they just reached out and put on their plate what they wanted, and you could have seconds and thirds if you wished - the bowls were constantly being refilled, and the table was constantly slowly revolving. It was also the first time they had ever used chopsticks, and it was hilarious for me to hear about their travails when trying to eat rice! :lamo:
 
fmw said:
It was unspoiled in 1955. In the meantime, communism has done this to Cuba.

View attachment 67177541
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In the meantime, capitalism has done this to the United States...

detroit-rundown-houses.jpgurban blight.jpgurban blight 3.jpg

Brothers by a different mother?

Wait, I found this photo from Cuba as well...

CUBA BEACHES RESORTS.jpg

I don't think you can really assess a country with a couple of photos...
 
JasperL said:
Well, surely "communist" China is a bigger legacy, and when you buy your S&P 500 index fund, you invest in 500 countries that are actively propping up the largest communist country on the planet with roughly 150 times the population of Cuba, is an immeasurably greater long term communist threat to the U.S., and as a bonus has little regard for human rights and like all communist countries laughs at the notion of political freedom. Walmart is a worldwide outlet for communist made goods - I'd think the communist leaders get a kick out of the fact that one of America's richest families got there by selling communist goods, therefore promoting the interests of communists. The promoters and defenders of 'free trade' with China are many times more guilty of promoting the interests of communists than anyone involved in changing our relationship with Cuba.

BTW, when has the U.S. ever had a philosophical problem propping up a military dictatorship? If they agree to serve our interests (i.e. cut the U.S. into a share of profits), we might have installed the dictator!
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The "but they did it!" argument never works.

The USA free trade with China is a slow moving disaster that - combined with regulations - has all but totally destroyed the USA industrial base and made the economic a self-serving services and money brokering economy.

No one yet has shown anything but feel-good reasons for this deal with China.

What China does NOT do is harbor terrorists and fugitives from American justice. The Chinese government is not a criminal organization of itself. While drugs may come out of China, the Chinese government isn't a drug cartel. And China isn't directly off our coast.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Really?

You cherry pick a photo off the net and represent that as all of ****ing Cuba?

That's obstinate and ignorant, continuing a myth to justify childish and bullying treatment because they repelled an illegal invasion.

You've never been there and are too afraid to go.

In 1955 the ****ing American mafia ran the island, people were virtual slaves to crime bosses.

Clearly you never even bothered to wiki Cuba.
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They became slaves to a new criminal organization in the Castro regime.
 
Smeagol said:
People in the US territories of Puerto Rico and the US Virgin Islands are nervous. Closer in proximity to the US mainland. Presumably cheaper labor. Presumably a bargain on the currency exchange rate. The allure of vacationing in a tropical paradise with Spanish colonial charm but frozen in time back to the 1960s and previously off limits to American travelers. What will be the economic impact on American citizens living in the Caribbean US territories?

Many if not most Americans don't even realize US Virgin Islanders and Puerto Ricans are American citizens from birth. They cannot vote in Presidential elections, have only limited representation in congress (unless they relocated to one of the 50 states of DC) but the PR and USVI National Guard can sure be activated and sent to Afghanistan and Iraq to put their lives on the line defending America. I don't like excessive government spending but if Cuba starts to siphon off economic vitality from PR and the USVI, I thing some federal grants might be in order to temporarily stabilize the territorial economies. What exactly, I'm not sure. Maybe some school and college funding, police, hospital, cruise ship port fees waived and tax exemptions for businesses that open there.
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This is going to slam the critical tourist income of many of our friendly island territories and friends.

Another of Obama's "Reward your enemies and punish your friends" agenda.

Has any benefit to the USA or anyone else but the Cuban government and possibly Cubans even been suggested by Obama? No, just another of his guilt tripping apologizing for the existence of the United States to the rest of the world - and punishing Americans for it.
 
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