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U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

vesper said:
And that explains the Chamber of Commerce giving kudos to Obama's Cuba E.O. and Amnesty E.O..

Tell me Jasper, is it dead when the lives of the those under Communist rule don't personally benefit from their governments playing the markets?
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Well, sure, business loves new markets and cheap, disposable labor.

And economic freedom is no worse in China than many "democratic" developing countries, and certainly no worse than many dictatorships.
 
vesper said:
No. damn no. The posts are for all to view. I responded to your post gender free. You brought gender into the conversation when you could not justify your big government stance. You are the one who brought up gender as if that has something to do with my claim.
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WTF are you on about with this big government bull****? Where in the **** did I once EVER make a statement that I support big government. :roll:
 
Anthony60 said:
Can't say that I think Saudi Arabia has anything to do with this.
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It was a backhanded poke at those concerned about dealing with a "COMMUNIST!!!@@!!" country like Cuba. We have normalized relations, and free and open economic relations, with FAR worse and no one bats an eye.
 
MMC said:
Yet the policy has been based on Castro and his regime. Clinton confirmed and validated that.
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Well sure, but the policy failed and so I see little risk and lots of upside potential to changing policy to something that doesn't have a 50 year record of failure.
 
eohrnberger said:
True. Do we, in the US, want to be supporting a socialistic state with our money?
I'm kinda against that, but it appears that Obama thinks otherwise.
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So should Pres. Cruz (FSM help us...) sever ties with much of Europe, especially the Nordic countries. Lots of socialism going on in those countries!
 
Lutherf said:
U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years | Reuters

I'm actually cautiously optimistic about this. We've had a rather odd relationship with Cuba ever since their fight for independence 100+ years ago but simple proximity makes some kind of normalization a matter of practicality.
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its probably time,but alot has to do with raul in charge instead of fidel.fidel pulled alot of strings since he stepped down,but since raul took over,cuba has intriduced alot of freedoms not available to cuba in a long time.raul may be the leader to put cubas prosperity over the parties prosperity like fidel did,and given the changes sin ce fidels dictatorship,it mayh be worthwhile to look into relations rather than strict embargo.
 
vesper said:
It is people like you who does not question the motives or the constitutionality for Obama to make such an E.O. Oh no, you aren't interested in the details ....you could care less. why? because you are a Big Government kind of guy. Right?
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What part of this latest EO is unconstitutional? Please be specific....
 
Bodhisattva said:
WTF are you on about with this big government bull****? Where in the **** did I once EVER make a statement that I support big government. :roll:
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Gee you just stated it was "about time" giving your approval that it was done by E.O.. This all occurred by a president through an E.O. who bypassed Congress to make such calls. Yet his call is limited in what he can shove through temporarily. A Congress that has recessed for the holidays is when Obama makes his move to do such a thing. I don't know how to describe big government more clearly than when a president can avoid Congress to make new laws and change current policies on his own. In fact it was a Democrat, Senator Menendez currently in the chair position of Foreign Affairs who railed against Obama for his actions. There is disapprovel on both sides of the aisles on what Obama has done. Because it is something you would expect a King to do, not the president of the U.S. Yet you give it your blessings. duh!
 
JasperL said:
What part of this latest EO is unconstitutional? Please be specific....
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It changes current policy without the Congress involved. It is an abuse of power.
 
vesper said:
Gee you just stated it was "about time" giving your approval that it was done by E.O.. This all occurred by a president through an E.O. who bypassed Congress to make such calls. Yet his call is limited in what he can shove through temporarily. A Congress that has recessed for the holidays is when Obama makes his move to do such a thing. I don't know how to describe big government more clearly than when a president can avoid Congress to make new laws and change current policies on his own. In fact it was a Democrat, Senator Menendez currently in the chair position of Foreign Affairs who railed against Obama for his actions. There is disapprovel on both sides of the aisles on what Obama has done. Because it is something you would expect a King to do, not the president of the U.S. Yet you give it your blessings. duh!
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About time... as in about time, it has taken long enough. Upon making that comment I had no idea how the decision was made. I just heard that it was made. Read whatever you want into it with your raging political bias and hatred if you like though... I see that you can't show that I support big government though, as expected... :lol:
 
Bodhisattva said:
About time... as in about time, it has taken long enough. Upon making that comment I had no idea how the decision was made. I just heard that it was made. Read whatever you want into it with your raging political bias and hatred if you like though... I see that you can't show that I support big government though, as expected... :lol:
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Maybe you should educate yourself on how something came about before giving it your blessing. Because when people don't do that, it makes them out to be hypocrites of what they claim they stand for.
 
Bodhisattva said:
About time... the embargoes and sanctions have done nothing other than to hurt the people... who then flee to the USA.
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Even though this post has nothing to do with the current administration... Three people liked this post... how mad does that make Obama Haters? :lol:
 
vesper said:
Maybe you should educate yourself on how something came about before giving it your blessing. Because when people don't do that, it makes them out to be hypocrites of what they claim they stand for.
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Wrong. It makes the ignorant. That said, how it came to be has literally NOTHING to do with the fact that it is long past due. Can you grasp that or is it too broad of a concept?

Charles Manson has deserved to die for decades now. Say he was killed and I applauded that it finally happened, as in the case with Cuba. I later find out that he was tortured for a year by lighting parts of him sporadically on fire from time to time until they eventually covered him with sweets and let fire ants bite him to death in agonizing pain. THAT would suck, just like the E.O. sucks. That has NOTHING to do with being glad that Cuban sanctions are over OR that Charley Manson is dead.

Are you able... just a little teeny bit, to see how that is logical and makes sense or is your hatred so blinding that you can't see that you are ****ing wrong?
 
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JasperL said:
So should Pres. Cruz (FSM help us...) sever ties with much of Europe, especially the Nordic countries. Lots of socialism going on in those countries!
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How about repressive socialist regimes? The EU and Nordic countries certainly aren't that.
 
vesper said:
It changes current policy without the Congress involved. It is an abuse of power.
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Err. I thought the office the of president could make changes to status of relationships on their own without consulting congress. Nixon went to China for example.

Granted, to lift the embargo completely, a congressional act is needed, and last I heard, it's a pretty leaky embargo.
 
vesper said:
It changes current policy without the Congress involved. It is an abuse of power.
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The President makes foreign policy decisions. That's in the Constitution
 
eohrnberger said:
Err. I thought the office the of president could make changes to status of relationships on their own without consulting congress. Nixon went to China for example.

Granted, to lift the embargo completely, a congressional act is needed, and last I heard, it's a pretty leaky embargo.
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Did Nixon execute an EO that would change China foreign policy by-passing Congress? If so produce it please.
The problem is even if you thought the president's policy was the right policy, the problem is presidents don't get to do this. That's the job of the legislative branch of government. That is what's set forth in the United States Constitution
 
rocket88 said:
The President makes foreign policy decisions. That's in the Constitution
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But what he did changed current law/policies rocket. He doesn't have authority to do such a thing. He can not legislate from the Oval Office.
 
poweRob said:
Because he thinks it will secure him votes out of Miami. That's the only reason he is vomitting the garbage he is.
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So all those Cubans that were Anti Castro.....that have been all over the Radio and Media, that don't even live in Florida, speaking out on this. Are helping Rubio to secure him votes?


What about the Garbage of BO Peep not even telling his Chair Menendez anything about this? How do you think that looks?

How does it make you feel knowing.....that Repubs can pretty much wipe out this BO Peep EO and will have backing from the Demos?
 
Napoleon said:
Rubio and Menendez are malcontents who bring nothing to the table on this issue.



The pardoning and release of thousands of political prisoners, allowing prominent opposition activists to return from exile, reducing internet censorship, eliminating media censorship boards, passing new labor laws including better wages and workers rights, etc. are all examples of the significant reforms brought about in Burma because of the diplomatic skill of this Administration.
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Oh, you mean their use to things being done by the Law. Yeah we can see how that makes them malcontents.

Also you need to do some research on Burma. This time try not listening to just the US Media.
 
JasperL said:
Well sure, but the policy failed and so I see little risk and lots of upside potential to changing policy to something that doesn't have a 50 year record of failure.
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No one disagrees that the policy needs to be changed. Or that Congress can't come up with a real solution.

But then I doubt Congress will forget the Human rights violations, or the killing of Civilian Americans. Like BO Peep did. More than likely they would demonstrate to Castro.....that they had to do more than just talk a good game.
 
JasperL said:
Who said it was a "useless move" except right wing talking heads? Why would the Vatican or Canada get involved in negotiating something "useless?" It's a first step - do you have a suggestion about a better first step, or would you require that all the problems in Cuba be solved to Charles Krauthammer's liking before we do anything?

And the last bit is just you being a partisan. If you can't think of any good reasons for better relations with a neighbor 90 miles off our coast, how that might benefit the people of Cuba, their relatives here in the U.S. and the Americas, use your imagination, maybe read something.

It's not on the same level as Russia, but then it doesn't have to be on CanadaJohn's list of "Priority #1 Must Do Important!!!" items to make it worth doing.
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Canada and the Vatican can be honorable in their assistance - they were facilitators and there's nothing wrong with that. Canada and the Vatican are not bound by US legislation - Obama is. The very fact that Obama's EO will basically lapse in two years without Congressional action should tell you that.

Secondly, I have know idea why you have such a hard-on for Charles K - I've never mentioned him and I have no idea what his position is in this matter. Some of us are actually capable of forming opinions on our own and expressing them.

Thirdly, what, internally, in Cuba has changed that has brought about this new rapprochement between them and the US? What has Cuba done to enter the 21st century and to give and respect rights to their own people?

Finally, I've asked but you haven't provided what you believe the US gains from this action. What national interest benefit is served here? Easier access to Cuban baseball players for the Chicago White Sox?
 
poweRob said:
You aren't getting your way so you call the president petulant? Priceless!
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Not getting my way? Seriously? You equate a sole Canadian with an opinion to the President of the United States?

In case you haven't figured it out, there's a big difference. Your President thinks that his sole opinion should become the foreign and domestic policy of 300 million plus Americans, whether they or their Congressional representatives agree or not.
 
Cuba remains a safe haven for fugitives and terrorists and poises a huge border security problem as Cuba allows people from adversarial countries free travel to Cuba, such as North Korea. Cuba also will serve as a new money laundering foreign country, another foreign drug cartel problem and another location to shelter money from taxes.

Opening Cuba to tourism will seriously harm other countries such as Jamaica, Haiti and Northern Mexico tourist destinations.

Other than the endless guilt-tripping of the American left, who blames Cuba's problems on us, there is NO benefit to the USA lifting the embargo. Rather, another step in the left's open-borders policy.

Isn't it time to lift the embargo on North Korea for all the terrible suffering we are causing North Koreans? That's the logic of the new hate-America left. Punish our friends. Reward our enemies.
 
JasperL said:
Well sure, but the policy failed and so I see little risk and lots of upside potential to changing policy to something that doesn't have a 50 year record of failure.
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Understanding you think Central and South America should have gone communist, yes you would see the embargo as a failed policy.

But any words that come out of Obama's mouth are the words for God-the-savior himself and therefore a truism to be cheered and praised.
 
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