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U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

Grant said:
What "new direction" are you tlking about? Anything with specifics?
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"Why not try a little trade and diplomacy." It was right there in the quote, you apparently did not bother reading.
 
OrphanSlug said:
"Why not try a little trade and diplomacy." It was right there in the quote, you apparently did not bother reading.
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Yes, but is there anything specific? Do you have anything in mind concerning trade (such as what to trade, tariffs, a NAFTA type of agreement) and diplomacy (such as goals, property ownership, human rights, etc.) or it that it? I don't want to put words in your mouth.
 
rocket88 said:
Why would Putin celebrate the end of the Cold War? His side lost.
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That's not what I originally commented on... when Dittohead not! stated:

Dittohead not! said:
I think it must have been about the same time other nations with which we have diplomatic and trade relations became democracies.
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I said someone should tell Putin, meaning "other nations with which we have diplomatic and trade relations become democracies". Someone should tell Putin to become a Democracy.
 
Grant said:
Yes,everything depends on the death of the Castros and then the difficulties of who the land belongs to that was seized by the Castros. The pre revolutionary owners and their descendents? Auctions? Castros friends and family? It will a mess for decades to come, even after those bastardos croak.
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Perhaps it might be better if the US ambassador had some influence on such decisions.
 
Ockham said:
That's not what I originally commented on... when Dittohead not! stated:



I said someone should tell Putin, meaning "other nations with which we have diplomatic and trade relations become democracies". Someone should tell Putin to become a Democracy.
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Oh, I'm sure he'd take advice like that to heart.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Perhaps it might be better if the US ambassador had some influence on such decisions.
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If he has no influence than what is the point? These issues should have been discussed before Obama made his decision. How does he negotiate anything from here?
 
Grant said:
If he has no influence than what is the point? These issues should have been discussed before Obama made his decision. How does he negotiate anything from here?
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There still is the issue of the embargo. Anyone think Congress will come to any decision on that one?
 
Fenton said:
How many Americans are risking life and limb to float off to Cuba ?
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You know what? I would strongly suggest you stop trying to shove a whole nation into a can of one picture to come up with Chateau Breonde.

If you had actually gone to Cuba, you would see there are many resorts and fine hotels, some of them Canadian chains. There are even banks where you can take out money and some of them are European and Canadian...and they are ALL private sector, for profit operations paying VERY good wages compared to the rest of the Caribbean. You would also that Cuba has a much higher standard of living than many of the "colonial" Caribbean countries.

Secondly, the picture of what "capitalism" has done to America is foolish, as anyone can crop a picture from anywhere and say, well, this proves that "capitalism" doesn't work.

I also suggest you do some political science reading as "capitalism" and "communism" aren't really viable terms anymore as few governments are pure capitalist and even fewer are "communist"...China is the fastest growing "free enterprise" economy in the world, while the United States has some antiquated socialist laws not the leats of which is two years of unemployment.
 
upsideguy said:
Actually, a lot more than you would think....

“Take This Plane to Cuba”: Remembering the Hijackings of the 1960s
http://modernamerica2011.wikispaces.com/Airline+hijackings+-+1970s

Airline hijackings to Cuba were a routine occurrence in the late 60s and early 70s. There were so many that the government decided to install metal detection devices at all US airports.

As to urban decay, its not as simple as change in production methods. You do not see urban decay of US magnitude in most 1st world countries of Canada, within Europe and Australia.

But, we digressing. No one is trying to juxtapose Cuba and the US to compare societies. That is a whole other discussion. I am only taking issue with the poster that thought he could well illustrate Cuba with a single photograph.
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Digressing?

1960's hijackings relate to this how?

As long as we're there let's talk about the Bay of Pigs,. and why not the billions the mafia dragged out of Cuba they used to buy American politicians?

Hell,. if we're going to wallow in factoid history and not the facts of today, there's that bit of ugliness called the Battleship Maine, where the US sank it's own ship. hell there's a lot we can go off on.....maybe even how a lost at sea Italian dimwit thought he was half a world away and wiped out an entire indigenous population thinking he was dealing with "Indians".
 
Dittohead not! said:
There still is the issue of the embargo. Anyone think Congress will come to any decision on that one?
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An embargo made no difference at all. Cuba was free to trade with everyone else in the world and had no success at all, at least for the Cuban people.
 
Grant said:
Yes, but is there anything specific? Do you have anything in mind concerning trade (such as what to trade, tariffs, a NAFTA type of agreement) and diplomacy (such as goals, property ownership, human rights, etc.) or it that it? I don't want to put words in your mouth.
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I do not have specifics, nor do I need them in this case as of yet. My point is still the same. Why do you keep arguing for something that has not worked in 50+ years? Why not try a different direction and see if it yields something including whatever they may be amicable to because of relations change? It is not likely that continuing the embargo will do much.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Digressing?

1960's hijackings relate to this how?

As long as we're there let's talk about the Bay of Pigs,. and why not the billions the mafia dragged out of Cuba they used to buy American politicians?

Hell,. if we're going to wallow in factoid history and not the facts of today, there's that bit of ugliness called the Battleship Maine, where the US sank it's own ship. hell there's a lot we can go off on.....maybe even how a lost at sea Italian dimwit thought he was half a world away and wiped out an entire indigenous population thinking he was dealing with "Indians".
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The hijackings relate to the specific point that no one would risk life and limb to go to Cuba. The fact is that some have. I simply addressed a specific assertion then dismissed as an irrelevant digression, as the issue was about someone posting a single photograph suggesting that it well captured the essence of Cuba.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I do not have specifics, nor do I need them in this case as of yet. My point is still the same. Why do you keep arguing for something that has not worked in 50+ years? Why not try a different direction and see if it yields something including whatever they may be amicable to because of relations change? It is not likely that continuing the embargo will do much.
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I have advocated lifting the embargo for the past twenty years. Nonetheless, you can't say that "it has not worked" without specifying the objective it was to achieve.
 
Jack Hays said:
I have advocated lifting the embargo for the past twenty years. Nonetheless, you can't say that "it has not worked" without specifying the objective it was to achieve.
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I doubt the objectives were thought out well, but most opposition to lifting the embargo in this thread comes down to Cuba's habits. Where we agree is lifting the embargo, seems to be that is all we agree on.
 
OrphanSlug said:
I doubt the objectives were thought out well, but most opposition to lifting the embargo in this thread comes down to Cuba's habits. Where we agree is lifting the embargo, seems to be that is all we agree on.
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If the objective was to inflict economic pain on Cuba then that has been achieved.
 
All those comments blaming the U.S. embargo for the poverty and backwardness of Cuba seem to miss the point that the island has been able to trade and interact with almost all of the rest of the world, Europe and Canada included. So why hasn't this cooperation been more beneficial for Cubans? Could it be because Cuba is a prison state?
 
Dittohead not! said:
I didn't think so.
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Well, my trust in politicians is not strong enough to put money on it...But none the less, regardless of how that decision is made, the embargo will stay in place. And that is the part of this that will just crush the Cuban people.
 
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