U.S., Cuba to restore diplomatic relations after 50 years

DifferentDrummr said:

When the alternative was Mitt Romney, they were willing to hold their noses and re-elect.

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Nothing excuses giving Obama 4 more years after his first 4 - nothing.

MMC said:

So why are even the Demos saying that what BO peep has done is.....validated the tyranny in the Fight against Castro?

You weren't going to say everybody else is wrong and Only BO Peep is correct, now were ya?

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What i can say is the elected dems in office are hypocrites. And lost me when they ran from their own agenda and blamed it on obama for their losses. These are grown ass men and women with no backbone . Where is the accountability For themselves

CanadaJohn said:

And if you're still blindly infatuated with the awesomeness that is Obama, then I suppose having his opinion rule the land is just what you've been hoping for.

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Except I'm 1) not blindly infatuated with Obama 2) making ridiculous arguments that conclude serious policy choices on an important topic developed over months of negotiation in partnership with the Vatican and your own country are petulant and childish, or 3) suggesting alternative methods that based on the evidence of the past 6 years, and especially the past 4, have an approximately zero chance of succeeding, not to mention an unbroken 50 year record of failure, at least half of that after it was clear our policy of boycott's and disengagement was having no effect at all on Casto's power.

Besides, he made a policy choice solidly within his prerogatives. It's step one of many if we are to have normalized relations with Cuba, and the vast majority of those other steps will require Congressional approval, and if that's not done this latest move will ultimately change almost nothing.

Rials6 said:

What i can say is the elected dems in office are hypocrites. And lost me when they ran from their own agenda and blamed it on obama for their losses. These are grown ass men and women with no backbone . Where is the accountability For themselves

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So what do you say to all those who been fighting against Castro? Those who have watched their family members killed. Those who sought Democracy.

Just what do you say to them? "What".....forgetaboutit? All that you did means nothing....as some Fine Cigars and Rum will help boost BO's economy. You can see how that would go over real swell with those that watched family members executed.....huh?

Oh, and which of these Demos were re-elected and why again? How long has Menendez been in the Senate?




Menendez said. "Trading Mr. Gross for three convicted criminals sets an extremely dangerous precedent. It invites dictatorial and rogue regimes to use Americans serving overseas as bargaining chips."

Reps. Chris Smith (R-4th Dist.) and Albio Sires (D-8th Dist.) have introduced legislation named for Foerster that would require the executive branch to tell Congress what the U.S. is doing to extradite fugitives from Cuba and other countries. “Rather than bringing the Cuban people closer to democracy and freedom, by capitulating to the Castro brothers, the administration allows them to strengthen their grip on the Cuban people," said Rep. Chris Smith (R-4th Dist.). "Whatever joy we feel at the release of Alan Gross is tempered by the sadness that our president is enabling tyranny.” And Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr. (D-9th Dist.) said he would "insist that any opening of relations comes side-by-side with an opening of the Cuban government's political system from totalitarianism to one that respects democracy, human rights, and personal freedoms.".....snip~

OrphanSlug said:

What makes you think that warming relations with Cuba has no benefit?

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I don't think legitimizing a bloody dictatorship located a few miles off the coast of the United States is IN ANY WAY a "benefit" to the United States. I'm pretty sure you don't have to be a foreign policy expert to come that conclusion. do you?

Rials6 said:

Obama is doing what he said he was going to do. Engage with our enemies like he has done with Iran. It's 2014. The embargo hasn't worked. Open relations with cuba and let the growing youth in cuba be exposed to some sense of freedom or just to see what it looks like. And see what happens. I think some good will come out of it. Where is the threat in this. I simply don't see it.

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What freedoms are they being exposed to? Cubans already understand others are free and they are not. They understand they're not allowed to leave. They understand they can't watch the movies and TV others do and can't access the Internet.

Do you really believe the people there are that stupid?

MMC said:

So what do you say to all those who been fighting against Castro? Those who have watched their family members killed. Those who sought Democracy.

Just what do you say to them? "What".....forgetaboutit? All that you did means nothing....as some Fine Cigars and Rum will help boost BO's economy. You can see how that would go over real swell with those that watched family members executed.....huh?

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So why now? What's the President's rush to take this action? Raul is not going to live forever. Fidel is probably drooling on himself somewhere, perhaps he's even achieved room temperature.

So, what is the end game? Where is the money in this deal?

Why has America gotten so scary about everything

Anthony60 said:

Don't hold your breath for a pro Obama rant, he is the one perpetrating this mistake.

They are a totalitarian regime. Political prisoners. State sponsor of terrorism. Oppressive, communist dictatorship. And we should ignore that and just open an embassy in Havana? Are you kidding? I see no upside. What upside are you seeing? And don't tell me that if we are nice to them they will change. And we get what in return?

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For a moment there, I thought you were talking about Saudi Arabia.....

ocean515 said:

So why now? What's the President's rush to take this action? Raul is not going to live forever. Fidel is probably drooling on himself somewhere, perhaps he's even achieved room temperature.

So, what is the end game? Where is the money in this deal?

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Heya Ocean. :2wave: Well, maybe BO peep plans on trying to bring in those Cuban Doctors that are like Doctors For Diplomacy. Their good doctors.....they just practice that Communism BS wherever they go.

MMC said:

So what do you say to all those who been fighting against Castro? Those who have watched their family members killed. Those who sought Democracy.

Just what do you say to them? "What".....forgetaboutit? All that you did means nothing....as some Fine Cigars and Rum will help boost BO's economy. You can see how that would go over real swell with those that watched family members executed.....huh?

Oh, and which of these Demos were re-elected and why again? How long has Menendez been in the Senate?




Menendez said. "Trading Mr. Gross for three convicted criminals sets an extremely dangerous precedent. It invites dictatorial and rogue regimes to use Americans serving overseas as bargaining chips."

Reps. Chris Smith (R-4th Dist.) and Albio Sires (D-8th Dist.) have introduced legislation named for Foerster that would require the executive branch to tell Congress what the U.S. is doing to extradite fugitives from Cuba and other countries. “Rather than bringing the Cuban people closer to democracy and freedom, by capitulating to the Castro brothers, the administration allows them to strengthen their grip on the Cuban people," said Rep. Chris Smith (R-4th Dist.). "Whatever joy we feel at the release of Alan Gross is tempered by the sadness that our president is enabling tyranny.” And Rep. Bill Pascrell Jr. (D-9th Dist.) said he would "insist that any opening of relations comes side-by-side with an opening of the Cuban government's political system from totalitarianism to one that respects democracy, human rights, and personal freedoms.".....snip~

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The same way 58,000 soldier's families dealt with their losses in Vietnam.

JasperL said:

For a moment there, I thought you were talking about Saudi Arabia.....

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Well there is China.....but then you can see why Business is done with them, huh?

Notice, how that isn't For a Few Dollars More.

MMC said:

Heya Ocean. :2wave: Well, maybe BO peep plans on trying to bring in those Cuban Doctors that are like Doctors For Diplomacy. Their good doctors.....they just practice that Communism BS wherever they go.

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They probably won't leave you bankrupt either if you ever get sick. And homeless.

MMC said:

Heya Ocean. :2wave: Well, maybe BO peep plans on trying to bring in those Cuban Doctors that are like Doctors For Diplomacy. Their good doctors.....they just practice that Communism BS wherever they go.

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I heard two interesting things on this while picking up my grand daughter from school. 1. It is the president's prerogative to recognize any country for diplomatic relations. He can open his Embassy etc. in Havana on his own. 2. Congress is the one who will have to lift the embargo.

Rials6 said:

The same way 58,000 soldier's families dealt with their losses in Vietnam.

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Yeah, which was caused by Democrats that didn't know what they are doing.....You weren't looking to brag about that Tombstone they wear around their neck now were ya? One can see how that all worked out. Kind of like now with BO peeps failed Foreign Policy.

I mean I know the guy is desperate to have something good come from his Policy. But do you think he should have been in Contact with those on the Foreign Affairs Committee to talk to them about what could be done?

As his.....I felt this or that. Doesn't mean a whole lot to how Business is conducted. Nor is it even a good excuse.

Rials6 said:

They probably won't leave you bankrupt either if you ever get sick. And homeless.

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Well that is plus side, huh? Do you think BO peep thinks they could help with his Special Care package? Might stop that bankrupting, homelessness, and maybe they can even keep their Doctor of Diplomacy.

MMC said:

Well there is China.....but then you can see why Business is done with them, huh?

Notice, how that isn't For a Few Dollars More.

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Sorry but I'm missing your point there - if it's that we don't actually act like we care as a country about human rights abuses so long as the dictators cut U.S. investors in on some of the profits, I agree.

Bottom line is I don't see the benefit if continuing a 50-year failed policy. If this doesn't work and Cuba doesn't consider this the start of a gradual evolution to a more open country, then we've lost nothing, but Raul has been allowing small changes to the economy and it's fair to expect that more normalized relations will help push things along in the direction favorable to us and the Cuban people.

Perotista said:

I heard two interesting things on this while picking up my grand daughter from school. 1. It is the president's prerogative to recognize any country for diplomatic relations. He can open his Embassy etc. in Havana on his own. 2. Congress is the one who will have to lift the embargo.

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Heya Pero. :2wave: Yeah, and as you can see he has them lining up on Both sides of the Aisle. Do you think it was a smart move to make the play for a few dollars more?

Rials6 said:

Obama is doing what he said he was going to do. Engage with our enemies like he has done with Iran. It's 2014. The embargo hasn't worked. Open relations with cuba and let the growing youth in cuba be exposed to some sense of freedom or just to see what it looks like. And see what happens. I think some good will come out of it. Where is the threat in this. I simply don't see it.

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Yes, he's engaging with them, except he has no idea how to deal with them. He is getting schooled by everyone. He makes concessions in return for nothing. He is a joke on the world stage. The embargo has worked, he is just too stupid to realize that.

So he's decided to give in to these murderous dictatorships. Big win for them, big lose for their people. The idiot is propping up dictatorships, and he doesn't even know it. Does anyone know what his strategy is? Can you explain it? Is he trying to kill them with kindness?

Does he, or do you, think they will eventually say,"Awe shucks, you guys are just so nice. We are going to promote freedom from now on!"

tres borrachos said:

Where do you get a French news feed? Is it on your television or the internet?

I was watching different networks last night and can't believe how all over the place people are on this. It's one of those issues that seems to be NOT cut and dry. I don't think it's got a real partisan split either.

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I don't have cable, it's an add on channel to free digital. I also get Russian Television news (in English), NHK (Asian Pacific) and 7 PBS stations.

JasperL said:

Sorry but I'm missing your point there - if it's that we don't actually act like we care as a country about human rights abuses so long as the dictators cut U.S. investors in on some of the profits, I agree.

Bottom line is I don't see the benefit if continuing a 50-year failed policy. If this doesn't work and Cuba doesn't consider this the start of a gradual evolution to a more open country, then we've lost nothing, but Raul has been allowing small changes to the economy and it's fair to expect that more normalized relations will help push things along in the direction favorable to us and the Cuban people.

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Well, I thought the part about Business would have gave it away. As opposed to the few dollars more with Cuba. Quite a difference with those who are major players with a Global Market, huh? Again.....as opposed to Cuba.

Bottomline......the ones that lose, are those in Cuba who have been fighting for Democracy only to watch BO peep enable Castro's Tyranny.

JoeTrumps said:

I don't think legitimizing a bloody dictatorship located a few miles off the coast of the United States is IN ANY WAY a "benefit" to the United States. I'm pretty sure you don't have to be a foreign policy expert to come that conclusion. do you?

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By all means then, let's continue with a policy for Cuba that has never worked.

MMC said:

Heya Pero. :2wave: Yeah, and as you can see he has them lining up on Both sides of the Aisle. Do you think it was a smart move to make the play for a few dollars more?

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This really does not bother me one way or the other. Perhaps it is time, I don't know. But if I was a Republican presidential candidate I would be very careful on what I say about this. I also heard from one prominent Cuban-American who was breaking down the Cuban vote. He said the younger Cuban-Americans tend to be more Democrat while the older ones are Republicans. He said this movement has been going on for a very long time. That the Elian Gonzalez Affair cost Gore Florida and the 2000 election as returning the kid, the normally young Cuban-American vote which was going to the Democrats returned to the Republicans or stayed home.

The more I thought about what he said, the more I agreed with him. I know I was up in arms about that then and I am not even Cuban.

Dittohead not! said:

1. They'd have been "working on it" for yet another fifty years.
2. "overturning" Obama care is not the issue so much as coming up with a replacement. Right now, there is no alternate plan.
3. Yep. Pure partisan gamesmanship. That is one thing that they can do.
4. I'll believe that when I see it happen.
5. Followed by what? Four years of.... (fill in the blank)

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Oh yes there has been legislation passed in the house that would allow more affordable healthcare without the boondoggle of Obamacare. But it sits on the shelf in Harry Reid's office. And what good would it do to send it to Obama's desk after Republicans take control of the Senate. You think he would sign it? Ha ha.

Now a brief history lesson on Cuba. The first partial embargo on Cuba was implemented under Eisenhower when the Castro regime took power. Since Eisenhower, they progressively became more strict starting with Kennedy and Johnson for good reason. The Castro regime was in bed with the Soviet Union. Funny yesterday, Obama in his speech mentioned the Bay of Pigs but failed to mention that Cuba had Soviet missles pointed directly at us. Cuba under Communist rule was able to sustain itself but when their bed partner, the Soviet Union, fell things really started to crumble within Cuba. But then along came Hugo Chavez. With the Soviet Union after the collapse started treating Cuba like nothing more than a satellite country, Hugo came to save the day to the last bastion of totalitarianism in the Western Hemisphere long past its sell-by date. For Fidel, who had had his eyes on Venezuela's oil riches since the 1960s, Chávez's election was an unbelievable stroke of luck. Much has been written about the way Venezuela stepped in to fill the fiscal void the collapse of the Soviet Union left in Cuba, but the reality is much stranger than that. Venezuela effectively wrote a fat petro check month after month to Cuba. Cuban flags eventually flew above Venezuelan military bases and Venezuelans witnessed their democratically elected president telling them that Venezuela and Cuba share "a single government" and that Venezuela "has two presidents."

Now Chevaz is dead, oil has been dropping in price per barrel for a number of reasons which is Venezuela's number #1 source of revenue causing it's economy to hit the skids and Cuba too. Just where we want the Castro regime. And what does Obama do? Sends Castro a life line. Marvelous.

Now Obama claims, now, that all this will benefit the people of Cuba. How? Because other Latin governments opposed our Cuba policy but will now join us in pressing Cuba for human-rights improvements. Even members in his own party know that is a bunch of crap served on a silver platter. Does anyone believe Rousseff in Brazil or Bachelet in Chile (much less the Bolivian or Venezuelan or Ecuadorian leftist strongmen) will now suddenly turn tough on the Castro brothers? The White House also says economic progress in Cuba will lead to political progress. Really? Has it in other Communist countries such as China or Vietnam?
So the question you should be asking yourself is why did the president act, if there will be no change in Cuban foreign or domestic policies? There is no good reason other than ideology.

and none of the above answers the question of just why the Congress sits idly by and allows the president to rule by executive order. If Obama is really shredding the Constitution and instituting one man rule, as is being claimed, why don't our elected representatives do something about it?

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The only way to deal with a rogue president is either sue him in court over every individual occurrence or impeach him. They have already taken him to court over his abuse of powers in Obamacare which is still pending. Over two dozen states are suing Obama over his E.O. amnesty. And Republicans have just recently gained back control of the Senate in the past election and the new members will not be sworn in until January. They have not been in a position to impeach him. The House of Representatives decides whether there are grounds to impeach a president, and the Senate conducts the impeachment trial. Hope it doesn't come to that, but if Obama continues to use his E.O. as a candy store for anything that suits his ideology, it will leave Congress no choice.

Rials6 said:

Why has America gotten so scary about everything

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America isn't. Remember there is a right-wing lean to this political forum. A majority of Americans aren't this extreme.