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Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

ocean515 said:
You have a point. On the plus side, in this particular case, the President has made a bunch of his supporters look really stupid when he forces them to spin his overlord actions.

Of course, since he has been hiding these EM's from the public, how would you know when he does something that ISN'T in his power to do?
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How is the President hiding these?? These are also mostly minor crap...giving federal employees a day off on a Friday when Thursday is holiday...IMPEACH HIM NOW!

Having the FBI and ATF track weapons used in crimes (I cannot beleive they were not already doing this)...WHAT A COMMIE IMPEACH HIM NOW!

Creating a pilot program for a new type of savings account....SOCIALIST BASTARD IMPEACH HIM NOW!

The right in this country is an effin joke.
 
zimmer said:
This is how Demokrats define "most transparent administration."
This is Mr. Hope & Change.
ROTFLOL...

It's sleazy, they know it, but hey... it's what they do... So what can R's do about it... espcially with The Demokrat's Sex Toy... John Boehner... he's a boner alright... an idiot if there ever was one. What's he gonna do? Have Congress challenge Obama...? ROTFLOL... Nooooo... he just opens all cavaties and says, let me be the instrument of your desires.
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I hope you are equally outraged by the use of term "enhanced interrogation technique".... its seems to me that guy at the other end of that can't draw the distinction between that and torture.
 
smb said:
How is the President hiding these?? These are also mostly minor crap...giving federal employees a day off on a Friday when Thursday is holiday...IMPEACH HIM NOW!

Having the FBI and ATF track weapons used in crimes (I cannot beleive they were not already doing this)...WHAT A COMMIE IMPEACH HIM NOW!

Creating a pilot program for a new type of savings account....SOCIALIST BASTARD IMPEACH HIM NOW!

The right in this country is an effin joke.
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Hmmm. Let's see. The President makes a point of telling the Nation he hasn't issued as many EO's as Bush, but it turns out he's been using EO's and EM's, which carry the same force, and the combination of both means he's issued more than any President in the last 70 years.

And the little minions who worship his every step just keep lapping it up?

Geeze, you'd think an effort to hide the hypocrisy would be undertaken just a little bit.

So, who's the effin joke?
 
Henrin said:
Really? The legislative branch could stay home all year long and the president wouldn't gain one once of power from it. The legislative branch does NOT have to stay active or do what other branches want, so that they maintain the power they were given by the Constitution.
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The executive branch couldn't wholesale take over, but there are margins that exist between the branches. They are certainly not even and impenetrable divides. A weak branch will see its margins filled by the other branches.
 
ocean515 said:
Hmmm. Let's see. The President makes a point of telling the Nation he hasn't issued as many EO's as Bush, but it turns out he's been using EO's and EM's, which carry the same force, and the combination of both means he's issued more than any President in the last 70 years.

And the little minions who worship his every step just keep lapping it up?

Geeze, you'd think an effort to hide the hypocrisy would be undertaken just a little bit.

So, who's the effin joke?
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So you agree then that he is not trying to hide these as posited by the OP correct? Also I find utterly ridiculous that the right would criticize someone for doing their job. His job is to run the executive branch. That branch of government is huge and, as I am sure you can agree, would require an immense amount regulation to control. It is obvious from the nature of the memoranda that was exemplified that these are extremely minor directives to executive offices on how to carry out certain tasks. Tasks that should, as in most of the exemplified cases, be doing already. Or they are setting up minor pilot programs to see if they have a desired effect. This is what is called management. It also give a written notification to the people involved of what they should be doing. This is known as good management. You shouldn't be asking why President Obama has done so many of these. You should be asking why other Presidents have not. As far as his claim about EO's that is still perfectly valid. The EO's are major directives. While the EM's are management tools...big difference. So yes the right is an effin joke for trying to even bring this up.
 
smb said:
So you agree then that he is not trying to hide these as posited by the OP correct? Also I find utterly ridiculous that the right would criticize someone for doing their job. His job is to run the executive branch. That branch of government is huge and, as I am sure you can agree, would require an immense amount regulation to control. It is obvious from the nature of the memoranda that was exemplified that these are extremely minor directives to executive offices on how to carry out certain tasks. Tasks that should, as in most of the exemplified cases, be doing already. Or they are setting up minor pilot programs to see if they have a desired effect. This is what is called management. It also give a written notification to the people involved of what they should be doing. This is known as good management. You shouldn't be asking why President Obama has done so many of these. You should be asking why other Presidents have not. As far as his claim about EO's that is still perfectly valid. The EO's are major directives. While the EM's are management tools...big difference. So yes the right is an effin joke for trying to even bring this up.
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LOL.

How could you possibly conclude my words indicate the President is not trying to hide his actions. Talking out of the side of his mouth has become SOP for him. Most transparent my ass.

I think it is very dangerous for any President from any party to believe they can act as overlord and take unilateral action on whatever they think they can get away with. His "fewer than Bush" Executive Orders claim should be an insult now that his record of Executive Memorandums has been revealed. A greater Narcissist has not occupied the White House in modern history.

The founding fathers, remember them, saw fit to create branches of the federal government for the express reason of proving checks and balances, and to protect the country against people like President Obama, or even groups, left or right, from circumventing the will of the people. Acting like an overlord commanding his indentured servants to buckle under his command is a gross violation of this historical standard.

Again, the effin joke is that liberal/progressives think this secret governing is a good thing. No wonder they remain continuously mired into the "wonder what happened" group.
 
ocean515 said:
LOL.

How could you possibly conclude my words indicate the President is not trying to hide his actions. Talking out of the side of his mouth has become SOP for him. Most transparent my ass.

I think it is very dangerous for any President from any party to believe they can act as overlord and take unilateral action on whatever they think they can get away with. His "fewer than Bush" Executive Orders claim should be an insult now that his record of Executive Memorandums has been revealed. A greater Narcissist has not occupied the White House in modern history.

The founding fathers, remember them, saw fit to create branches of the federal government for the express reason of proving checks and balances, and to protect the country against people like President Obama, or even groups, left or right, from circumventing the will of the people. Acting like an overlord commanding his indentured servants to buckle under his command is a gross violation of this historical standard.

Again, the effin joke is that liberal/progressives think this secret governing is a good thing. No wonder they remain continuously mired into the "wonder what happened" group.
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What I dont get is why some media person doesnt simply quote what he said in 2008 about running for President specifically to change how Bush went around congress.
 
jonny5 said:
What I dont get is why some media person doesnt simply quote what he said in 2008 about running for President specifically to change how Bush went around congress.
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I would suggest the silence provides more evidence to what has been claimed about the media for many years.
 
ocean515 said:
I would suggest the silence provides more evidence to what has been claimed about the media for many years.
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I would just like to see him spin his way around it. I imagine he'll just say "well i did go through congress, more than any other president. Im the most whatever you want president in history!"

Obama said:
“The biggest problems we’re facing right now have to do with George Bush trying to bring more and more power in to the executive branch, and not go through Congress at all,” he told an Iowa audience. “That’s what I intend to reverse when I’m president of the United States of America.”
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ocean515 said:
LOL.

How could you possibly conclude my words indicate the President is not trying to hide his actions. Talking out of the side of his mouth has become SOP for him. Most transparent my ass.

I think it is very dangerous for any President from any party to believe they can act as overlord and take unilateral action on whatever they think they can get away with. His "fewer than Bush" Executive Orders claim should be an insult now that his record of Executive Memorandums has been revealed. A greater Narcissist has not occupied the White House in modern history.

The founding fathers, remember them, saw fit to create branches of the federal government for the express reason of proving checks and balances, and to protect the country against people like President Obama, or even groups, left or right, from circumventing the will of the people. Acting like an overlord commanding his indentured servants to buckle under his command is a gross violation of this historical standard.

Again, the effin joke is that liberal/progressives think this secret governing is a good thing. No wonder they remain continuously mired into the "wonder what happened" group.
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The founding fathers did create branches of government with checks and balances. One of the branches of government they created was the executive. You are whining about the executive taking executive action. That does not hold water. That is just dumb. You should be concerned if the executive is NOT taking executive action. Instead you whine, bitch and cry about how the President is DOING his job.

It is PERFECTLY CLEAR from the article that was posted in the OP that the administration is NOT hiding these. Regardless of what you and other conservatives want whine and cry about. The effin joke is the right continually whines about things that are not and should not be controversial. If the Congress does not like what he is doing there is a simple solution. DO SOMETHING...if you don't like that he set up a pilot program for a new type of savings account then pass a bill that ends the program...If you don't like (and I couldn't possibly see why) that he is having the FBI track weapons used in crimes then pass a bill that says the FBI can't do that...until shut the efff up. Quit whining about a somebody who is actually governing and get your party and your fellow conservatives to actually govern. Until all this is wining bull****.
 
smb said:
The founding fathers did create branches of government with checks and balances. One of the branches of government they created was the executive. You are whining about the executive taking executive action. That does not hold water. That is just dumb. You should be concerned if the executive is NOT taking executive action. Instead you whine, bitch and cry about how the President is DOING his job.

It is PERFECTLY CLEAR from the article that was posted in the OP that the administration is NOT hiding these. Regardless of what you and other conservatives want whine and cry about. The effin joke is the right continually whines about things that are not and should not be controversial. If the Congress does not like what he is doing there is a simple solution. DO SOMETHING...if you don't like that he set up a pilot program for a new type of savings account then pass a bill that ends the program...If you don't like (and I couldn't possibly see why) that he is having the FBI track weapons used in crimes then pass a bill that says the FBI can't do that...until shut the efff up. Quit whining about a somebody who is actually governing and get your party and your fellow conservatives to actually govern. Until all this is wining bull****.
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:bs

The allegiance some believers display is remarkable. Display much more "turn a blind eye" willingness, and it will become "eyes" and explain the total blindness the liberal/progressives are perfecting.
 
BrewerBob said:
Yeah, it is about content, not quantity. The POTUS is charged with running the Executive Branch. Orders and memoranda is how he issues instructions to those who work for him. They aren't going to read his mind. Criticize the content by all means but it looks foolish to criticize the number.
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Exactly, quality over quantity. Then we have government by memo, what an intriguing idea.
 
ocean515 said:
:bs

The allegiance some believers display is remarkable. Display much more "turn a blind eye" willingness, and it will become "eyes" and explain the total blindness the liberal/progressives are perfecting.
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The idiocy some people display just because the disagree with the President politically is astounding. That is why the right is such and effin joke right now. This is not a controversy nor should it be controversial. Trying to make it so makes you look foolish to say the least. My opinion has nothing to do with allegiance or anything else. It has to do with common sense. Again read the article the OP posted to make these asinine claims.

The Obama Administration did hide these memoranda and in fact published them in multiple places even though it was unclear if they were legally required to.

The memoranda were for obviously minor things that anyone (except those with Obama Derangement Syndrome apparently) can clearly tell by the subject matter and actions they are taking.

The Obama Administration is using these memoranda as management tools in order to manage the executive department.

To perpetuate any notion that this should be controversial or anything but what it is...proper governance...is just plain dumb and makes those doing it look foolish.
 
Perotista said:
Exactly, quality over quantity. Then we have government by memo, what an intriguing idea.
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How is someone supposed to administer the largest organization in the country. Should call everyone...Should he schedule meetings with everyone...meet with them personally??? Really? The memoranda are tool in his arsenal for managing the executive. It provides a direct outlet to people that otherwise may not know exactly how the President feels about a specific subject without him actually having a meeting or talking to those people which given the size and scope of the executive branch is impossible. To try to make this into a controversy is just bizarre and foolish.
 
smb said:
How is someone supposed to administer the largest organization in the country. Should call everyone...Should he schedule meetings with everyone...meet with them personally??? Really? The memoranda are tool in his arsenal for managing the executive. It provides a direct outlet to people that otherwise may not know exactly how the President feels about a specific subject without him actually having a meeting or talking to those people which given the size and scope of the executive branch is impossible. To try to make this into a controversy is just bizarre and foolish.
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It all depends on what the memo's are about. Normal mundane functioning of government, one would expect no less. But controversial policy changes or perhaps changing the written law, that is trying to keep what he is doing covert, a secret. Government behind the scenes, which in a way is worse than the old smoked filled rooms.
 
Perotista said:
It all depends on what the memo's are about. Normal mundane functioning of government, one would expect no less. But controversial policy changes or perhaps changing the written law, that is trying to keep what he is doing covert, a secret. Government behind the scenes, which in a way is worse than the old smoked filled rooms.
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Did you even the read the article? The article was obviously trying to make hay on this subject and the only examples they could come up with are the very mundane functioning of government you speak of. The article makes ridiculously bombastic statements like instituting gun control and then explain the memoranda told the FBI to start tracking weapons used in crimes...like they should have to be told that in the first place. Also it was clear in the article that they were not trying to hide these memoranda. That were in fact publishing them in multiple places regardless if the law required them to or not.
 
smb said:
Did you even the read the article? The article was obviously trying to make hay on this subject and the only examples they could come up with are the very mundane functioning of government you speak of. The article makes ridiculously bombastic statements like instituting gun control and then explain the memoranda told the FBI to start tracking weapons used in crimes...like they should have to be told that in the first place. Also it was clear in the article that they were not trying to hide these memoranda. That were in fact publishing them in multiple places regardless if the law required them to or not.
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Talk about overreach, he had the audacity to issue a memorandum to change the name of the National Security Staff to the National Security Council Staff. Forget impeachment, he should have been lynched.
 
Perotista said:
It all depends on what the memo's are about. Normal mundane functioning of government, one would expect no less. But controversial policy changes or perhaps changing the written law, that is trying to keep what he is doing covert, a secret. Government behind the scenes, which in a way is worse than the old smoked filled rooms.
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Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

He gave a campaign speech five days prior to election day in 1988 in which he said he wanted to "fundamentally transform the United States" if he were elected. That is one campaign promise he personally intended to keep, but the people cheering didn't understand what he meant at the time. Now they do.... 50 million on food stamps; trillions added to the debt in a few years; ignoring the Constitution that the Supreme Court unanimously ruled was overreach of his authority, but he doesn't care what the highest Court in the land said; forcing Obamacare on a populous that still doesn't like it, but who will be fined if they don't sign up for it; and lots more - nope, no one can say he didn't keep his word on that campaign promise! :thumbdown:
 
jonny5 said:
Well for example, the establishment of a minimum wage for contractors was a memo, not an order. He basically used the power of federal contracts to forces business who want to get those contracts to pay a specific wage within their business.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/memoranda/2014/m-14-09.pdf
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First things first...lets get you facts straight. The President raised the minimum wage of contractors by executive order. Something even the memoranda that you posted states. The memoranda was managerial tool to describe how to implement that executive order. Second the President is well within in his rights as the Chief Executive to determine how much people are paid in the Executive Branch. To say otherwise is just complete nonsense.
 
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polgara said:
Greetings, Pero. :2wave:

He gave a campaign speech five days prior to election day in 1988 in which he said he wanted to "fundamentally transform the United States" if he were elected...forcing Obamacare on a populous that still doesn't like it, but who will be fined if they don't sign up for it; and lots more - nope, no one can say he didn't keep his word on that campaign promise! :thumbdown:
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OK so lets deal with the "points" you make in your statements, even though they have absolutely nothing to do with this thread, one at time.

First, the campaign promise was not made in 1988 but 2008 unless you are referring to a campaign promise he made while running for the Harvard Law Review (minor point but worth stating).

Second, there are only 46+ million people on food stamps right now. Even if I give you the rounding error to 50 there are significant reasons for that number being so high right now. The President inherited the worst economy since the Great Depression. The recession, even though it ended in 2009, can account for 12-18% raise in the number of food stamp recipients. They do know for fact from past data that the number of recipients on food stamps lags economic recovery by about 5-10 years. The US population growth between now and when President Obama took office is about 3%. That accounts for 15 to 21% of the increase in the number of food stamp recipients. The fact that the President recognized that hunger was at its highest levels in the US in 15 years when he took office led him to expand the food stamp program to help cover low income workers that were struggling to put food on the table which accounts for anywhere between a 25 to 30% increase in the number of people receiving aid. It isn't that more people are going hungry and being put on food stamps it is that we finally recognized that working Americans were unable to provide basics for their families and President Obama took action to help mitigate that. The true fact is that over the past 2 years less people have been added to the food stamp rolls then average number of people added to the rolls under President Bush. This even is including the expanded number of people made eligible by President Obama. It also appears 2014 will be even better than 2012 or 2013 for the low number of people being added to the rolls. So your food stamp "point" does not hold up under factual analysis.

Third, trillions added to the debt - Well thank we did or who knows where this country and world would be if he didn't increase the spending. The fact is, through no fault of his own, President Obama inherited the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression and by any marker you want to give has led us out of the that crisis and made our economy stronger.

Fourth, ignoring the Constitution...really. This is just a stupid argument. Every action he has taken has been well within is Constitutional powers including the your 9-0 overreach was just one ruling on whether or not he could appoint several people by bypassing the Senate. Something every President has done or tried to do since the Republic was founded. So spare me the overwrought rhetoric.

Fifth, Obamacare...I don't even know why conservatives keep bringing this up. They should just be quiet as possible on this now because for all their nay saying it is working and working better than even the Administration thought. But lets just go anecdotally for a few minutes here. Every year since left the service and joined the private sector I have seen double digit increases in what I pay for health insurance. I was paying in 1998, the first year a I left the military, a total $28 per pay period for health insurance with no co-pay and no deductible. Within 13 years by 2011 I was paying $119 per pay period for health insurance with a $1000 deductible and $20 co-pay. Which equates, when all is said and done, to over a 500% increase in my out of pocket expenses on health care. Then comes Obamacare and for the first time in 2012 I seen no increase in my pay period deduction and only a $200 increase in my deductible which was more than made up for by the fact that all my preventative care is now 100% covered with no deductible and no co-pay. Low and behold 2013 comes around and I received no increase in per pay deduction and no increase in my deductible and my preventive care is still 100% covered which means for the first time my out of pocket expenses are actually reduced. Then comes 2014 open enrollment and what happens...my out of pocket DECREASES by $2 (not much I know but it actually DECREASED) with no increase in co-pay or deductible. So once again my out of pocket health costs have GONE DOWN yet AGAIN. If Obamacare is the end of Western Civilization then I say bring it on.
 
smb said:
The idiocy some people display just because the disagree with the President politically is astounding. That is why the right is such and effin joke right now. This is not a controversy nor should it be controversial. Trying to make it so makes you look foolish to say the least. My opinion has nothing to do with allegiance or anything else. It has to do with common sense. Again read the article the OP posted to make these asinine claims.

The Obama Administration did hide these memoranda and in fact published them in multiple places even though it was unclear if they were legally required to.

The memoranda were for obviously minor things that anyone (except those with Obama Derangement Syndrome apparently) can clearly tell by the subject matter and actions they are taking.

The Obama Administration is using these memoranda as management tools in order to manage the executive department.

To perpetuate any notion that this should be controversial or anything but what it is...proper governance...is just plain dumb and makes those doing it look foolish.
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Nice excuses. I imagine there are those quite pleased with the results of their indoctrination. Minions spewing memes is no doubt a glorious thing. At least you're doing something for them.
 
jonny5 said:
Or perhaps its a difference of opinion.
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Opinions have to have factual evidence and logic to back them up or they are complete nonsense.
 
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