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Man kills 6 family members, still at large.

spud_meister said:
If conservatives hadn't attacked America on 9/11, the the wars wouldn't have happened.
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1. Saddam was a secularist. So he is not reasonably described as conservative even though he was not liberal.

2. Iraq didn't attack us.

3. The Afghan government didn't attack us, Al Qaeda did. The Afghan government refused to do justice, which was wrong, but not grounds for war.
 
Paleocon said:
I can't help it if you don't know what "liberal democracy" means.
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I know exactly what liberal means and just because something is a democracy does not make it liberal anything.
 
Peter King said:
I know exactly what liberal means and just because something is a democracy does not make it liberal anything.
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Then explain what "liberal democracy" means.
 
Kobie said:
I don't think Paleocon is using the same definition of "liberal" as you are.
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I know the definitions of liberal quite well. And he seems to using the political version, not the one that means freely or open to new behaviors...
 
Paleocon said:
1. Saddam was a secularist. So he is not reasonably described as conservative even though he was not liberal.

2. Iraq didn't attack us.

3. The Afghan government didn't attack us, Al Qaeda did. The Afghan government refused to do justice, which was wrong, but not grounds for war.
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The Iraq war wouldn't have happened if 9/11 hadn't happened. It enabled the appropriate atmosphere of fear. Al Qaeda is a conservative organisation.
 
Paleocon said:
Whether or not money was a motive, spreading liberalism was the express purpose in the operation title. That we (praise be to God) failed, does not negate the fact.

Keep in mind that the neocon position is basically that liberalism is good, but needs to be selectively applied in order to avoid destroying itself.
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No the express purpose was making money. Also explain to me how or why socially conservative corporatists would have any interest in spreading liberalism?
 
Paleocon said:
Then explain what "liberal democracy" means.
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I would love to but let's do that somewhere more appropriate (like 11 years ago or so) and not in a thread about a murderer which has nothing to do with your preoccupation with liberals.

I cannot help it you want to turn this thread into another liberal conservative thread.
 
b_dubz said:
Nutty nonsense? You mean like starting a war to make money? Or not properly diagnosing the problems the vets face?
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sounds like barking loon conspiracy theories to me
 
spud_meister said:
The Iraq war wouldn't have happened if 9/11 hadn't happened. It enabled the appropriate atmosphere of fear. Al Qaeda is a conservative organisation.
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Which doesn't change the fact that the wars were intended to spread liberalism.
 
b_dubz said:
No the express purpose was making money. Also explain to me how or why socially conservative corporatists would have any interest in spreading liberalism?
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Operation Iraqi Freedom.
 
Paleocon said:
They were trying to turn Iraq into a liberal democracy. Thus, liberal expansion.
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No they where trying to make money. They did a damn good job of it to.

We are not a "liberal democracy" and never have been. We do not have full individual rights to do what we want, privacy, drugs, prostitution, gay marriage in some states, and abortions when you want in some states, and human rights are even abused in prisons and jails. Racism was enshrined in law here until 50 years ago. We where a republic, now where a oligarchy.

Also why on earth would some of the biggest opponents of liberal democracy in the country want to go setting them up elsewhere?
 
TurtleDude said:
sounds like barking loon conspiracy theories to me
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Cheney increased his stock portfolio by 3000 percent in Iraq. He also took paychecks as CEO and continued to hold stock as VP, even though that horribly illegal and dishonest.

Rumsfeld got bush to give galion 1 bill in theraflu purchases. Rumsfeld used to be chairmen.

Allot of other Bush's friends/campaign contributors wanted this war.

As for not supporting the troops coming back, just look around on the web for 5 seconds and you will see how content they are.

You can keep spouting establishment nonsense, but less and less people will believe you.

Try educating yourself yea?
 
b_dubz said:
Cheney increased his stock portfolio by 3000 percent in Iraq. He also took paychecks as CEO and continued to hold stock as VP, even though that horribly illegal and dishonest.

Rumsfeld got bush to give galion 1 bill in theraflu purchases. Rumsfeld used to be chairmen.

Allot of other Bush's friends/campaign contributors wanted this war.

As for not supporting the troops coming back, just look around on the web for 5 seconds and you will see how content they are.

You can keep spouting establishment nonsense, but less and less people will believe you.

Try educating yourself yea?
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I am hearing a Pink Floyd song now
 
b_dubz said:
We are not a "liberal democracy" and never have been.
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Thank you got demonstrating the depth of your ignorance. We were the first liberal democracy.
 
b_dubz said:
To me the answer to that is universal healthcare. Then people will always have the access they need and desire.

Not enough is done for sure. I also think a big problem with our mental health institutions here is that pharma is held privately. They have a vested interest in making pills people become dependant on, and ones that don't work that well. That way they can roll out new ones every few years and charge more...

Also prohibition of marijuana ayahuasca and even psylocibin really does not help. All three of these things have been shown to help people with PTSD. Especially weed, their is much less research into the other two because of legal bs.... And why shouldn't people be able to take the meds they choose if it helps them anyway?

Specifically I think the strains of weed (like Charlotte's web) that are very high in Cbd and low in THC could do wonders for folks that suffer from PTSD. Actually I know they could because cbd is a very strong and safe anti anxiety medication. It also does not get you high. That's thc...
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LOL !!!

It was when you said Universal health care would give people access to the Health Care " they need and desire ".

I couldn't help myself !!

More Central planning Bull **** lies to suck in the easily entertained, huh ??

Yes, take profit out of it to make it " equitable " and let " the people " run it... LOL !!

Oh, and the Democrats were on board officially for the Wars when they voted FOR the Iraq resolution.
 
b_dubz said:
Yes because bush was the liberal who started those wars?
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G.W. Bush is a neoconservatives and the neoconservative movement started with in the Democrat Party by liberal Democrats.

Both liberals with in the Democrat Party today and neoconservatives who fled to the GOP when the extreme radical left aka "New Left" hijacked the Democrat Party believe in nation building.
 
This is pretty close to home for me. I hope they catch the guy before he can kill anyone else
 
b_dubz said:
No your right. I was speculating I never said they said he did.

Although I think its hard to go into a warzone (especially one like Iraq) without some type of mental trauma.
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Not everyone sees combat!
 
b_dubz said:
Manhunt for 'Armed and Dangerous' Suspect in Pennsylvania Shooting Spree - ABC News

Early this morning a ex military man who served in Iraq killed six people including his ex wife and a 14 year old girl. He is still at large.

To me this is yet another reason to stop the wars. Allot of the people that come back suffer from PTSD, and that can make them unstable.
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This is a truly awful situation. Please don't use this tragedy to promote an anti-war agenda. It's inappropriate and disrespectful.
 
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