• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Sydney siege: Hostages held in Lindt cafe[W:49]

I don't want to jump into the "blame all Muslims" bandwagon, but there is something fundamentally wrong with this whole picture.

The guy was a refugee. He was welcomed in Australia. Then he engaged in vociferous protests against the Australian government for its actions in Afghanistan. Then he was accused of no fewer than 40 sexual assaults. Then he was accused in the murder of his wife. He continued to walk around freely, then his actions resulted in the death of two innocent Australians.

Not that he doesn't have a right to protest the actions of the government. But he definitely doesn't have a right to sexually assault 40 Australian women, murder his wife, take hostages, and take the lives of two people.

Now, what would have happened to him if he had stayed in his home country and similarly vehemently protested against its government, then committed these crimes ("sins")? I think he probably would have had his hands chopped off for his first offense, and upon persisting, his head would have been chopped off.

So, Western tolerance resulted in what happened today.

It's like welcoming with open arms a scorpion, then getting fatally stung.

Are we Western societies becoming so politically correct that we then fail to protect our own people from a nutjob like this guy?

Sure, in retrospect, judgment is easier, but this seems like a really extreme situation. Shouldn't this guy 1. Be better screened, and his demand for refugee status turned down? 2. If admitted, then have his status revoked and be deported, after he started misbehaving? I mean, he should have a right of defense, as the crimes he was accused of were maybe still unproven, but I think it shouldn't take this long to realize that the Australians were in the presence of a scorpion - at the very least not let the man out on bail until further investigation. Two innocent Australians would still be alive, and the two of them and their families would have been grateful.
 
Last edited:
GreatNews2night said:
I don't want to jump into the "blame all Muslims" bandwagon, but there is something fundamentally wrong with this whole picture.

The guy was a refugee. He was welcomed in Australia. Then he engaged in vociferous protests against the Australian government for its actions in Afghanistan. Then he was accused of no fewer than 40 sexual assaults. Then he was accused in the murder of his wife. He continued to walk around freely, then his actions resulted in the death of two innocent Australians.

Not that he doesn't have a right to protest the actions of the government. But he definitely doesn't have a right to sexually assault 40 Australian women, murder his wife, take hostages, and take the lives of two people.

Now, what would have happened to him if he had stayed in his home country and similarly vehemently protested against its government, then committed these crimes ("sins")? I think he probably would have had his hands chopped off for his first offense, and upon persisting, his head would have been chopped off.

So, Western tolerance resulted in what happened today.

It's like welcoming with open arms a scorpion, then getting fatally stung.

Are we Western societies becoming so politically correct that we then fail to protect our own people from a nutjob like this guy?

Sure, in retrospect, judgment is easier, but this seems like a really extreme situation. Shouldn't this guy 1. Be better screened, and his demand for refugee status turned down? 2. If admitted, then have his status revoked and be deported, after he started misbehaving? I mean, he should have a right of defense, as the crimes he was accused of were maybe still unproven, but I think it shouldn't take this long to realize that the Australians were in the presence of a scorpion - at the very least not let the man out on bail until further investigation. Two innocent Australians would still be alive, and the two of them and their families would have been grateful.
Click to expand...
You don't have to 'blame all Muslims' to see a pattern here. We've seen single Muslims murder innocent people in canada recently (twice) a few times in the US (Fort Hood being the biggest) in Britain and in France. There are probably many others which I could look up but the point is made.

Muslims have been directed to carry out these killings by Islamist leaders and, as we see, some are doing just that. There will be many more of these acts of terror carried out by one or two Muslims and the police, security, and immigration officials, appear to be helpless to stop them.
 
I was saddened to learn of the deaths of two of the hostages and several injuries. My thoughts and condolences go out to their families. May Australia stay strong during this trying time.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

Cephus said:
It's done by Christians too when some members of the Christian community freak out and kill people. It's done to distance themselves from the carnage. They don't want to be seen as responsible. If they really didn't like it, they would have taken steps to throw these people out of their religious community before anything happened. If they really cared, they'd have already excommunicated extremists from their ranks before bad things went down. But they don't. This is just damage control.
Click to expand...

Excommunication? Are you freaking serious?

First of all it does not exist in Islam. It is a Christian thing.
Secondly that does not even happen to Christian faith terrorists lol.. hell not even pedophiles get excommunicated in the Christian Church, let alone murderers and rapists..

The Muslim community leaders constantly state that the actions of radicals is not Islamic.. not much else they can do.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

Apocalypse said:
Aren't all terrorists 'crazy'?
Click to expand...

Yep they are, which is why the guy that attacked Gabby Gifford is a right wing terrorist correct? And that is what the US media called and calls him correct?
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

Apparently the suspect was a troublemaker for years before he did this, the question is why didnt the authorities put him under surveillance or revoke his refugee status since he has been a bad egg for years?
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

My goodness,2 people died and yet everybody's talking about a woman taking off her scarf.

Enough with Muslim self-victimization!
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

youngturk said:
My goodness,2 people died and yet everybody's talking about a woman taking off her scarf.

Enough with Muslim self-victimization!
Click to expand...

The coverage of that incident reflects that the terrorist attack even affects Muslims, many of whom have no connection whatsoever to the radicalism and extremism that has been advanced in the name of Islam by Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. Innocent and law-abiding people should not be vilified regardless of their faith. Australia is an inclusive country and I am confident that her people of all faiths will come together during this trying time.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

donsutherland1 said:
The coverage of that incident reflects that the terrorist attack even affects Muslims, many of whom have no connection whatsoever to the radicalism and extremism that has been advanced in the name of Islam by Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. Innocent and law-abiding people should not be vilified regardless of their faith. Australia is an inclusive country and I am confident that her people of all faiths will come together during this trying time.
Click to expand...

How is that hashtag going to make everything better?We won't be talking about it tomorrow.

Muslims can destroy Islamophobia only if they protest extremism.Sorry,I don't see any Muslims speaking out.Islam desperately needs a reform.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

PeteEU said:
Yep they are, which is why the guy that attacked Gabby Gifford is a right wing terrorist correct? And that is what the US media called and calls him correct?
Click to expand...

The guy that attacked Gabby Gifford wasn't a terrorist and the only people calling him terrorists are liberals that want to desensitize everyone to the meaning of the word by using it willy-nilly for any violent act.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

Grant said:
Yes, they always condemn the attacks after they're completed. That's become part of their MO. But the problem is what to do before these attacks occur.
Click to expand...

Your hateful antics will continue Grant, I know, you hate muslims and that's fine because your extremist opinion will never enter the mainstream, much to the delight of us civilized folk.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

donsutherland1 said:
The coverage of that incident reflects that the terrorist attack even affects Muslims, many of whom have no connection whatsoever to the radicalism and extremism that has been advanced in the name of Islam by Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. Innocent and law-abiding people should not be vilified regardless of their faith. Australia is an inclusive country and I am confident that her people of all faiths will come together during this trying time.
Click to expand...
Few are vilifying all Muslims but if anyone belongs to a group which is creating death and destruction around the world then they are going to have accept a certain of amount of criticism for belonging to that group.

It doesn't make much sense that Muslims can be destroying lives and then play the victims as well. I understand Muslims can be murdered for leaving the faith but if they don't want to be identified with the international atrocities being carried out by Muslims then leaving the faith is an option. That's what many rational people would do.
 
Grant said:
Yes, they always condemn the attacks after they're completed. That's become part of their MO. But the problem is what to do before these attacks occur.
Click to expand...

This.

We should have seen hundred of thousands of Muslims protesting extremism, there are 1.5 Muslims , where are these people?Are they tied up?
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

donsutherland1 said:
The coverage of that incident reflects that the terrorist attack even affects Muslims, many of whom have no connection whatsoever to the radicalism and extremism that has been advanced in the name of Islam by Al Qaeda, the Islamic State, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. Innocent and law-abiding people should not be vilified regardless of their faith. Australia is an inclusive country and I am confident that her people of all faiths will come together during this trying time.
Click to expand...
Muslims have no no connection to attacks from Muslims?

When the Catholic Church tried to cover up the molestation of children many Catholics quit in disgust, yet nothing similar appears to be happening in Islam. Christians are being slaughtered by Muslims in Africa, for example, and there have been no Muslims marching in the streets asking that it be stopped.

Yes, innocent and law abiding citizens should not be vilified for their faith, unless that 'faith' is subjugating and oppressing human rights and freedoms and the bodies start piling up. Sometimes 'faith' is overrated and beliefs simply nonsense. We all know that.

People must expect to be responsible for their beliefs, and what group they belong to, or expect criticism. This is just the way it works in the adult world and Muslims should either be prepared for it, or do something positive about it. But playing the victim card when it is members of their faith creating international terrorism is not a ploy that can continue indefinitely.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

Grant said:
Muslims have no no connection to attacks from Muslims?

When the Catholic Church tried to cover up the molestation of children many Catholics quit in disgust, yet nothing similar appears to be happening in Islam. Christians are being slaughtered by Muslims in Africa, for example, and there have been no Muslims marching in the streets asking that it be stopped.

Yes, innocent and law abiding citizens should not be vilified for their faith, unless that 'faith' is subjugating and oppressing human rights and freedoms and the bodies start piling up. Sometimes 'faith' is overrated and beliefs simply nonsense. We all know that.

People must expect to be responsible for their beliefs, and what group they belong to, or expect criticism. This is just the way it works in the adult world and Muslims should either be prepared for it, or do something positive about it. But playing the victim card when it is members of their faith creating international terrorism is not a ploy that can continue indefinitely.
Click to expand...

Luckily it appears the people of Sydney reject your hateful and ignorant opinion.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Said one Islamaphobe to another.
Click to expand...

The definition of phobia: an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation

You make it sound like Islamophobia is illogical.
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

PeteEU said:
Excommunication? Are you freaking serious?

First of all it does not exist in Islam. It is a Christian thing.
Secondly that does not even happen to Christian faith terrorists lol.. hell not even pedophiles get excommunicated in the Christian Church, let alone murderers and rapists..

The Muslim community leaders constantly state that the actions of radicals is not Islamic.. not much else they can do.
Click to expand...

I was using the term in a generic sense. Disfellowship if you prefer. Chuck them out of the church. We know that a lot of these radicals use Muslim mosques for recruiting and financial support. Deny them that. Do so before the fact, not after. Yeah, it won't stop the crazies from being crazy but it will show a commitment on the part of the Muslim leadership to do more than damage control. The same thing goes for all religious groups. Imagine what would happen if the Catholic Church actually cared about pedophiles in their midst?
 
youngturk said:
The definition of phobia: an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation

You make it sound like Islamophobia is illogical.
Click to expand...
Voltaire understood people like Jetbogieman.

“To determine the true rulers of any society, all you must do is ask yourself this question: Who is it that I am not permitted to criticize?”
 
Re: Islamist terrorist takes 13 hostages in Australia

Cephus said:
I was using the term in a generic sense. Disfellowship if you prefer. Chuck them out of the church. We know that a lot of these radicals use Muslim mosques for recruiting and financial support. Deny them that. Do so before the fact, not after. Yeah, it won't stop the crazies from being crazy but it will show a commitment on the part of the Muslim leadership to do more than damage control.
Click to expand...

Actually they do it before the fact also.. quite often but they dont exactly announce such things. Just because you dont read it on highly anti-Muslim western media, does not mean it does not happen.

The same thing goes for all religious groups. Imagine what would happen if the Catholic Church actually cared about pedophiles in their midst?
Click to expand...

Half of their priests would be in jail and most of their flock would be on religious trial for moral corruption. .. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom