US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine.....

[MMC]

Washington (AFP) - The US Congress unanimously approved fresh economic sanctions against Russia and lethal weapons for Kiev, defying President Barack Obama and hardening American lawmakers' response to a Kremlin-backed insurgency in Ukraine.

Identical texts of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act passed both the Senate and House of Representatives on Thursday, but because of a technical issue it returned to the Senate where it passed by unanimous consent moments before the chamber adjourned late Saturday night. The current legislation authorizes $350 million worth of weapons, defense equipment and training for Ukraine over three years.

It is now up to Obama to either sign or veto the measure. The White House said Thursday it was "looking at it.".....snip~

US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine

Naturally, The Russians once they heard this was coming down the pipe, told us. It will require a response from them. Was this a smart move by the Congress? Bo peep already has a failed policy with the Russians. In which they have exerted some muscle with us on a few occasions.

Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

Oh btw.....can someone let the Lib Writer at the AFP know when a country sends arms. That they are usually lethal.

 

[OrphanSlug]

We seem to be unwilling to learn from past mistakes.

 

[MMC]

We seem to be unwilling to learn from past mistakes.

Mornin OS. :2wave: Either way, BO will have to take out that pen. The Russians actually responded, even before it was passed. Kerry was suppose to be meeting up with Lavrov over the ME. Looks like this will be on the agenda. Have you noticed what the Russians have been going thru with probing us, lately?


Russia threatens response if US sets new sanctions over Ukraine.....

Moscow (AFP) - Russia responded angrily on Saturday to news that US senators had passed a bill calling for fresh sanctions against Moscow and the supply of lethal military aid to Ukraine.

"Undoubtedly, we will not be able to leave this without a response," deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told Interfax news agency ahead of a meeting between the Russian and US foreign ministers......snip~

Russia threatens response if US sets new sanctions over Ukraine

 

[Jerry]

Washington (AFP) - The US Congress unanimously approved fresh economic sanctions against Russia and lethal weapons for Kiev, defying President Barack Obama and hardening American lawmakers' response to a Kremlin-backed insurgency in Ukraine.

Identical texts of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act passed both the Senate and House of Representatives on Thursday, but because of a technical issue it returned to the Senate where it passed by unanimous consent moments before the chamber adjourned late Saturday night. The current legislation authorizes $350 million worth of weapons, defense equipment and training for Ukraine over three years.

It is now up to Obama to either sign or veto the measure. The White House said Thursday it was "looking at it.".....snip~

US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine

Naturally, The Russians once they heard this was coming down the pipe, told us. It will require a response from them. Was this a smart move by the Congress? Bo peep already has a failed policy with the Russians. In which they have exerted some muscle with us on a few occasions.

Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

Oh btw.....can someone let the Lib Writer at the AFP know when a country sends arms. That they are usually lethal.

I have to believe that Russia re-legalizing gun carrying is at least in part to generate pressure against sanctions from gun makers.

 

[MMC]

I have to believe that Russia re-legalizing gun carrying is at least in part to generate pressure against sanctions from gun makers.

Mornin' Jerry. :2wave: Is that what Russia is doing? Re-legalizing gun carrying? Would you say that would point to them getting ready to gear up?

 

[OrphanSlug]

Mornin OS. :2wave: Either way, BO will have to take out that pen. The Russians actually responded, even before it was passed. Kerry was suppose to be meeting up with Lavrov over the ME. Looks like this will be on the agenda. Have you noticed what the Russians have been going thru with probing us, lately?


Russia threatens response if US sets new sanctions over Ukraine.....

Moscow (AFP) - Russia responded angrily on Saturday to news that US senators had passed a bill calling for fresh sanctions against Moscow and the supply of lethal military aid to Ukraine.

"Undoubtedly, we will not be able to leave this without a response," deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov told Interfax news agency ahead of a meeting between the Russian and US foreign ministers......snip~

Russia threatens response if US sets new sanctions over Ukraine

That is my point. There is only one conclusion to new US sanctions against Russia, a Russian response that ensures continued degrade of relations. Which will then have implications for parts of Europe that trade with Russia.

And to make matters worse, we are talking about arms and training right next door to Russia. Which is ran by someone operating with Cold War paranoia and strategic thinking. West vs. East.

We seem to be determined to wake up the Cold War, and perhaps start a chapter of the story that will effect the next 20-30 years all devoid of any lessons learned from prior times on the matter.

No way we can look at this action by Congress as anything but stupid.

 

[polgara]

Washington (AFP) - The US Congress unanimously approved fresh economic sanctions against Russia and lethal weapons for Kiev, defying President Barack Obama and hardening American lawmakers' response to a Kremlin-backed insurgency in Ukraine.

Identical texts of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act passed both the Senate and House of Representatives on Thursday, but because of a technical issue it returned to the Senate where it passed by unanimous consent moments before the chamber adjourned late Saturday night. The current legislation authorizes $350 million worth of weapons, defense equipment and training for Ukraine over three years.

It is now up to Obama to either sign or veto the measure. The White House said Thursday it was "looking at it.".....snip~

US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine

Naturally, The Russians once they heard this was coming down the pipe, told us. It will require a response from them. Was this a smart move by the Congress? Bo peep already has a failed policy with the Russians. In which they have exerted some muscle with us on a few occasions.

Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

Oh btw.....can someone let the Lib Writer at the AFP know when a country sends arms. That they are usually lethal.

Good morning, MMC. :2wave:

Since the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats, this means that Reid is doing what Obama wants him to do, so we need to consider the political pros and cons, from Obama's point of view, on this latest chess move. If he signs it, it looks like he's on the Ukrainians side on this matter, which is a slap at Putin. Will he sign it to get the attention off his ME failure? If he vetoes it, he can always say the people of the US have spoken, and avoid any personal blame. Unfortunately Putin knows how the political game is played even better than Obama does, and since the Ukraine is technically Russian territory, he could have troops there in a heartbeat. I don't think Putin will go that route, since he would know he is being baited. Putin has other ways to handle this - he could simply threaten to turn off the gas and oil deliveries to the Ukraine until they pay Russia the billions that they owe it. Putin's focus is not on the Ukraine - he got what he wanted by annexing the Crimea to give him the seaport he needed. He could complain to the UN that the US is interfering in Russia's business by aiding rebels in an internal affair that should be none of their concern. I think this was a stupid move by the Senate, but it will be interesting to see how Putin responds to the challenge. My opinion....

 

[Jerry]

Mornin' Jerry. :2wave: Is that what Russia is doing? Re-legalizing gun carrying? Would you say that would point to them getting ready to gear up?

To my knowledge, Russia doesn't use militias, so no. I think they just want to brake any sanctions by opening the Russia gun market. The resulting revenues to the State from permissions for various companies to sell in Russia, sales taxes of individual guns and carry-permit fees will be a major boost to their economy.

 

[Rogue Valley]

... and since the Ukraine is technically Russian territory...

Ukraine is not Russian territory, technically or otherwise. It has been a sovereign and independent nation since the dissolution of the USSR in 1990-1991.

 

[MMC]

That is my point. There is only one conclusion to new US sanctions against Russia, a Russian response that ensures continued degrade of relations. Which will then have implications for parts of Europe that trade with Russia.

And to make matters worse, we are talking about arms and training right next door to Russia. Which is ran by someone operating with Cold War paranoia and strategic thinking. West vs. East.

We seem to be determined to wake up the Cold War, and perhaps start a chapter of the story that will effect the next 20-30 years all devoid of any lessons learned from prior times on the matter.

No way we can look at this action by Congress as anything but stupid.

Yeah, this really didn't make sense to do. Now they should have sanctioned Iran as that's what BO is worried about them doing. They should even start talking about it just to get the Iranians to do something stupid. As BO backed off from sticking to the deadline. Now the Iranians think they can do as they please and that there wont be any consequences.

Which Russia wont be so assisting like when the talks resume.

Done as a last minute measure to......which IMO no one wanted to deal with it and they just wanted to hurry home.

 

[fmw]

Washington (AFP) - The US Congress unanimously approved fresh economic sanctions against Russia and lethal weapons for Kiev, defying President Barack Obama and hardening American lawmakers' response to a Kremlin-backed insurgency in Ukraine.

Identical texts of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act passed both the Senate and House of Representatives on Thursday, but because of a technical issue it returned to the Senate where it passed by unanimous consent moments before the chamber adjourned late Saturday night. The current legislation authorizes $350 million worth of weapons, defense equipment and training for Ukraine over three years.

It is now up to Obama to either sign or veto the measure. The White House said Thursday it was "looking at it.".....snip~

US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine

Naturally, The Russians once they heard this was coming down the pipe, told us. It will require a response from them. Was this a smart move by the Congress? Bo peep already has a failed policy with the Russians. In which they have exerted some muscle with us on a few occasions.

Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

Oh btw.....can someone let the Lib Writer at the AFP know when a country sends arms. That they are usually lethal.

It depends on our intended course as a country. We have been a world leader in the past but not so much in recent years. If we want to withdraw from wold leadership then we should leave things alone, bring the troops home and work on fixing our economy. If we want to return to being a world leader then what congress did is the correct approach. While the president has decided to withdraw, the congress has decided to return to world leadership. Now we need to get both branches of government on the same page. Personally I can go either way although I think withdrawing is the less expensive approach and therefore preferable.

 

[MMC]

Good morning, MMC. :2wave:

Since the Senate is still controlled by the Democrats, this means that Reid is doing what Obama wants him to do, so we need to consider the political pros and cons, from Obama's point of view, on this latest chess move. If he signs it, it looks like he's on the Ukrainians side on this matter, which is a slap at Putin. Will he sign it to get the attention off his ME failure? If he vetoes it, he can always say the people of the US have spoken, and avoid any personal blame. Unfortunately Putin knows how the political game is played even better than Obama does, and since the Ukraine is technically Russian territory, he could have troops there in a heartbeat. I don't think Putin will go that route, since he would know he is being baited. Putin has other ways to handle this - he could simply threaten to turn off the gas and oil deliveries to the Ukraine until they pay Russia the billions that they owe it. Putin's focus is not on the Ukraine - he got what he wanted by annexing the Crimea to give him the seaport he needed. He could complain to the UN that the US is interfering in Russia's business by aiding rebels in an internal affair that should be none of their concern. I think this was a stupid move by the Senate, but it will be interesting to see how Putin responds to the challenge. My opinion....

Mornin' Lady P. That's true it is with the Demos control. Yet several Republicans were all for this. Especially for getting the Ukraine more arms.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

Iran is still not being cooperative and I personally no longer believe Iran is doable. With Western assistance, Ukraine is salvageable.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Ukraine is not Russian territory, technically or otherwise. It has been a sovereign and independent nation since the dissolution of the USSR in 1990-1991.

That does not mean what you think it does. Part of Ukraine is made up of Russian descendants, hence our current problems with infighting within the nation now involving many outside nations because of. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign nation but with real issues in governance... And trade with nations... And alliances with nations. Say what you will but from my chair Ukraine made plenty of their own problems happen on a scale begging for outside interference. Right or wrong, history will have to decide once Ukraine is done screwing things up.

 

[MMC]

It depends on our intended course as a country. We have been a world leader in the past but not so much in recent years. If we want to withdraw from wold leadership then we should leave things alone, bring the troops home and work on fixing our economy. If we want to return to being a world leader then what congress did is the correct approach. While the president has decided to withdraw, the congress has decided to return to world leadership. Now we need to get both branches of government on the same page. Personally I can go either way although I think withdrawing is the less expensive approach and therefore preferable.

Mornin Fmw. :2wave: Well, what about those in Eastern Ukraine that don't want to be part of the Ukraine? Moreover what happens to the Ukraine without its major industrial sector?


We still are World Power despite China surpassing us economically before they were suppose to. Much of this is due to BO's failed policies and not keeping up pace with those jobs. If BO's economics were working. China wouldn't have been able to surpass us until 2019 or 2020. Which would have been questionable if we were running at full capacity.

 

[Rogue Valley]

That does not mean what you think it does. Part of Ukraine is made up of Russian descendants, hence our current problems with infighting within the nation now involving many outside nations because of. Yes, Ukraine is a sovereign nation but with real issues in governance... And trade with nations... And alliances with nations. Say what you will but from my chair Ukraine made plenty of their own problems happen on a scale begging for outside interference. Right or wrong, history will have to decide once Ukraine is done screwing things up.

They do indeed shoulder considerable blame for their situation. At core, that was what Maidan was about. Casting away the failed Soviet inheritances and turning Westward. Not everyone in Ukraine agrees with this path, but the vast majority not only support, but demand the changes required to better their national and personal condition.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Well, what about those in Eastern Ukraine that don't want to be part of the Ukraine?

Let them go. Unless Putin plans to prop them up with billions of rubles annually, they are doomed to be failed states.

Moreover what happens to the Ukraine without its major industrial sector?

Most of it is old and antiquated. The economics of Donetsk/Luhansk won't work if they are not based on the Ukrainian currency.

Sooner or later, Ukraine would have to remake itself to survive in the global economy. It must happen now sooner than anticipated.

 

[MMC]

Iran is still not being cooperative and I personally no longer believe Iran is doable. With Western assistance, Ukraine is salvageable.

Mornin' Simplexity. :2wave: I don't think they are Salvageable.....Putin is two steps ahead of everybody over there.

Moreover what does it show adding Sanctions on to Russia why laxing them on Iran after Iran has gone beyond the date set, and terms they had agreed to. So they could ease those Sanctions. Which were hurting them.

 

[fmw]

Mornin Fmw. :2wave: Well, what about those in Eastern Ukraine that don't want to be part of the Ukraine? Moreover what happens to the Ukraine without its major industrial sector?


We still are World Power despite China surpassing us economically before they were suppose to. Much of this is due to BO's failed policies and not keeping up pace with those jobs. If BO's economics were working. China wouldn't have been able to surpass us until 2019 or 2020. Which would have been questionable if we were running at full capacity.

Good morning.. Ultimately the affiairs of Ukaraine are the responsibility of the Ukranians. If they don't want to be absorbed by Russia they should fight Russia and they are doing so. We can either leave them alone or help them. It is a huge decision in my view because it is determined by our future goals about world leadership. As I said I can go either way. The problem for me is that the administration and the congress seem to have opposite positions on those goals.

 

[MMC]

Let them go. Unless Putin plans to prop them up with billions of rubles annually, they are doomed to be failed states.


Most of it is old and antiquated. The economics of Donetsk/Luhansk won't work if they are not based on the Ukrainian currency.

Sooner or later, Ukraine would have to remake itself to survive in the global economy. It must happen now sooner than anticipated.

Do you think we can get the Ukraine to let them go? If they fail they will be absorbed by Russia.

We need to get a handle on the ME and more importantly Africa. ASAP!

 

[OrphanSlug]

They do indeed shoulder considerable blame for their situation. At core, that was what Maidan was about. Casting away the failed Soviet inheritances and turning Westward. Not everyone in Ukraine agrees with this path, but the vast majority not only support, but demand the changes required to better their national and personal condition.

What I am trying to tell you is that "vast majority" that want western alliances and trade will cause further divide with those that side with more Russian influences. Putin knows that, then again so should everyone else.

Ukraine's national condition is not well, and will continue to degrade because of how pro-western leaning politicians handle their minority opposition. The worse that minority is treated, the more likely Putin will not back down. We will see more Russian forces camp the borders now that we have committed arms and training.

All giving me even more evidence Congress is acting stupidly.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Mornin' Simplexity. :2wave: I don't think they are Salvageable.....Putin is two steps ahead of everybody over there.

Morning MMC. I've lived there. It is difficult for someone who has never been there to appreciate the huge potentials of this country. Managed correctly, it could be major member of the European community. Putin has already lost Ukraine and nothing short of a full-scale Russian invasion can change that. I don't think he will go any farther. The political/economic damage this has done to Russia is already incalculable.

Moreover what does it show adding Sanctions on to Russia why laxing them on Iran after Iran has gone beyond the date set, and terms they had agreed to. So they could ease those Sanctions. Which were hurting them.

Iran and Ukraine are two separate issues. I think Western patience with Iran is also running out. Time will tell.

 

[Rogue Valley]

What I am trying to tell you is that "vast majority" that want western alliances and trade will cause further divide with those that side with more Russian influences.

I don't think you understand. Ukraine intends to proceed without Donetsk and Luhansk.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I don't think you understand. Ukraine intends to proceed without Donetsk and Luhansk.

Best of luck...

 

[DaveFagan]

Washington (AFP) - The US Congress unanimously approved fresh economic sanctions against Russia and lethal weapons for Kiev, defying President Barack Obama and hardening American lawmakers' response to a Kremlin-backed insurgency in Ukraine.

Identical texts of the Ukraine Freedom Support Act passed both the Senate and House of Representatives on Thursday, but because of a technical issue it returned to the Senate where it passed by unanimous consent moments before the chamber adjourned late Saturday night. The current legislation authorizes $350 million worth of weapons, defense equipment and training for Ukraine over three years.

It is now up to Obama to either sign or veto the measure. The White House said Thursday it was "looking at it.".....snip~

US Congress passes Russia sanctions, arms for Ukraine

Naturally, The Russians once they heard this was coming down the pipe, told us. It will require a response from them. Was this a smart move by the Congress? Bo peep already has a failed policy with the Russians. In which they have exerted some muscle with us on a few occasions.

Shouldn't we be focusing our attention elsewhere? Like on BO's failed policy with Iran. What say ye?

Oh btw.....can someone let the Lib Writer at the AFP know when a country sends arms. That they are usually lethal.

All you have to do is look at the US $1.1 trillion budget. About 2/3rds of that is for Military Offense. I would say Military Defense, but no one anywhere has attacked us. When you compare the Weapons Industry to the Auto Industry and realize the Weapons Industry is at least twice as large as the Auto Industry and the Nation initiated TARP to save the Auto Industry, then you must conclude the Nation would do the same to save the Weapons Industry. Cold Wars generate great income for the Weapons Industry, but run the risk of becoming a Hot War. The Money and Power brokers promote this policy to their own CORPORATE advantage and to the detriment of the entire World, not just US taxpayers. That is the driver behind this policy. Now, a successful Russia and BRICS nations threatens the "house of cards" economy operated by our Central Banks, ergo, they attempt to bankrupt them and at the same time put extreme pressure on Iran, Venezuela, etc. with the OILY deal with Saudi Arabia. Much of what the USA is doing could be considered an "act of war" and will likely generate a huge backflash in the near term. Best description of the policy is "stupid" or the only possible solution to save the CORPORATE Central banking morass,. It doesn't have anything to do with taxpaying citizens desires/dreams/realities. If the MSM would be an honest agent in reporting these events, we might encourage change, but it's not likely. People don't own MSM, but intelligence agencies might.