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Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recession

Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

There really isn't any need for it to exist at all. It is a price control. Government institute price controls for any number of reasons. Price controls negate the very concept of indexing it to inflation. You either want wages to be dictated by market demands or you don't. More often than not, the minimum wage defeats that very purpose less employers are willing to demand labour at higher prices.

Wage floors are not price controls

We have different terms for them because they're two different things.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Yes, that's horrible compared to your "Here's nothing more. Now go starve, because I said so"

I think you got that confused there. When you shut down job opportunities for young people, and lock people into a slot titled "Living Wage", "Here's nothing more" becomes your preamble and mission statement.

That's rather hateful in my book.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

There's that phrasing again. "Supposed to."

Why do people keep declaring that minimum wage isn't "supposed to" let you feed yourself?

.....because it's not? The minimum wage was originally intended to price minorities out of labor competition in a move to protect Decent White Workers' Decent White Wages.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Monopsony describes the low skill labor market.

:confused: That seems, on its face, to be so wildly inaccurate, that I can only assume you have a more complex argument that you are using this as a shorthand for.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

do you have a source that can refute the data I linked from the bls?

You have source data showing that 4 people are constantly competing for every 1 low-wage position?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

.....because it's not? The minimum wage was originally intended to price minorities out of labor competition in a move to protect Decent White Workers' Decent White Wages.

Someone else said it was to boost demand, someone else said it was to outprice the value of child labor, someone else said it was to incentivize capital investment.

I wish you guys could make up your mind.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You have source data showing that 4 people are constantly competing for every 1 low-wage position?

I think that statistic probably came from the peak of unemployment during the recession. Also Slevin didn't indicate it was only inclusive of low wage workers/jobs or that it is the norm.

I have no reason to believe it is suspect, it sounds about right to me.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

:confused: That seems, on its face, to be so wildly inaccurate, that I can only assume you have a more complex argument that you are using this as a shorthand for.

The wikipedia article indicated that it doesn't absolutely have to be just one buyer, just that the number of sellers have to significantly outnumber the amount of buyers. So it seems at least somewhat fitting to me. We have zillions of low skilled workers, but only so many employers that need low skilled employees.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

The wikipedia article indicated that it doesn't absolutely have to be just one buyer, just that the number of sellers have to significantly outnumber the amount of buyers. So it seems at least somewhat fitting to me. We have zillions of low skilled workers, but only so many employers that need low skilled employees.

By that standard, every form of employment is monopsony - it is a standard so broad as to be useless.

I did MW wage labor in the restaurant, and landscaping industries. My brother did retail. How many businesses do you think there are in the restaurant, landscaping, and retail industries combined?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You clearly did not read it.

Read what? The op ed piece ABOUT the report, or the vapid, devoid of facts report itself?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Someone else said it was to boost demand, someone else said it was to outprice the value of child labor, someone else said it was to incentivize capital investment.

I wish you guys could make up your mind.

I'm just telling you why we got one originally. The purpose of a MW now, as near as I can tell, is to give Democrats a wedge issue to use against Republicans. "incentivizing capital investment" is another way of saying "firing low wage workers and replacing them with machines", which I would agree is often a result, but I'm not sure it should be a goal...
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

But if the things they are buying cost as much or more then the added money in their pockets, they save nothing. I have explained this several times in other threads.

If you are seriously going to argue that inefficiency is the way to economic prosperity, then, with respect, I strongly think you should rethink your position.

Anyway, if you have a problem with what I am saying, I suggest you take it up with those that wrote the CBO report...they can probably explain it better (or at least, use much bigger words) then I can.

And we have explained that an increase in minimum wage does not equal a direct amount increase in the cost of goods generated by that minimum wage.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

More detrimental leftist legislation that harm those it pretends to help. The laws of economics dont change, maybe one day the left will take an econ class instead of relying on emotion.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

And we have explained that an increase in minimum wage does not equal a direct amount increase in the cost of goods generated by that minimum wage.

It equals increased costs to the employer-which will be passed on to the consumer or come out of the pockets of the employee.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

You dont think there are employers out there that need help but cannot afford it?

If they need help that they don't have, as in, there is work that needs done that ISN'T currently being done due to a lack of help, then they are losing business, or soon to go OUT of business. What you are asking is, Do I think there are employers out there who would like to not have to work as hard, but aren't willing to part with the extra cash they make to make it happen?


Imagep, you are an employer. Wouldn't you just love it if you could pay a guy to manage your store, so you could retire...right now? But you don't do so because, that would likely mean 40K a year or more LESS in your pocket. Yes?


And the answer is yes, absolutely, but that answer remains yes even if the minimum wage were set much much lower.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

It equals increased costs to the employer-which will be passed on to the consumer or come out of the pockets of the employee.

How will it come out of the pocket of the employee?


And if all additional costs to operate are passed on to the consumer, than how on earth did anyone ever believe that competition in the market keeps prices at the lowest possible level?


You guys need to keep your theories strait.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

More detrimental leftist legislation that harm those it pretends to help. The laws of economics dont change, maybe one day the left will take an econ class instead of relying on emotion.

And econ class taught by who? Mises?


The most celebrated economist of the 90's all but denounced that theory. Look it up.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

And econ class taught by who? Mises?


The most celebrated economist of the 90's all but denounced that theory. Look it up.

The most celebrated economist of the 90's? Who was that?
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

I'm just telling you why we got one originally. The purpose of a MW now, as near as I can tell, is to give Democrats a wedge issue to use against Republicans. "incentivizing capital investment" is another way of saying "firing low wage workers and replacing them with machines", which I would agree is often a result, but I'm not sure it should be a goal...

Firing people and replacing them with machines would be the result even if the MW were set at 2 bucks an hour, PERIOD. Even China is moving towards automation. Would you have us accept the living standards of the typical Chinese worker in order to laud your so celebrated economic beliefs? I volunteer YOU to go first.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

The most celebrated economist of the 90's? Who was that?

Greenspan.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Greenspan.

His views worked real well on the housing bubble. :lol:
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

It equals increased costs to the employer-which will be passed on to the consumer or come out of the pockets of the employee.

That's possible.

It could also result in a higher rate of demand, increases in business sales, expansion of business, increased profitability, more jobs, more production, and more wealth production.

We have had enough history of increases in minimum wage that historic evidence exists to prove which set of possibilities is the most likely to happen. The past is the best predictor of the future.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

Firing people and replacing them with machines would be the result even if the MW were set at 2 bucks an hour, PERIOD. Even China is moving towards automation. Would you have us accept the living standards of the typical Chinese worker in order to laud your so celebrated economic beliefs? I volunteer YOU to go first.

....were that the case, then it would already have happened. You replace labor with automation as labor becomes more expensive than automation. I'm not sure how accelerating that process with artificial price floors on labor is a net benefit.
 
Re: Study: The 2007 minimum wage hike cost more than 1 million jobs during the recess

His views worked real well on the housing bubble. :lol:

And he is a...no...he is THE "chicago" economist.


A school of thought being parroted around on these forums quite often, by these same people.
 
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