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Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

Grant said:
Don't you mean 'until the Islamists are satisfied'?
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No, terrorists are never satisfied. I want to know how many American lives and American dollars he wants to throw down the hole till he's satisfied with the actions taken.
 
Ikari said:
How many more decades? How many more dollars? How many more American lives till you're satisfied?

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different outcome. History has shown what this path leads to, and it's not resolution.
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The Global War on Terrorism or The Long War or whatever you want to call it will go on for many years, perhaps decades and perhaps generations, regardless of what the US does or does not do. The length of the war is not in our control, but we will have to fight because we will continue to be attacked.
 
Grant said:
Islamists attacked the US and Islamists are in the news again today. You don't understand that this is international, huh?
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13 years ago, terrorists struck our soil proper. 13 years. Today terrorists struck huge. Why? In 13 years we didn't solve the problem, in fact we seem to have made it worse. You don't understand history and data, huh?
 
Ikari said:
Didn't seem to do a good job then, seeing as that war started...what 13 years ago? And in 13 years we couldn't improve things enough to prevent 100 kids being killed.

Probably should think through our actions a bit better, yes?
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Islamism began well before that. You should familiarize yourself with the movement because its very much in your future.
 
Jack Hays said:
The Global War on Terrorism or The Long War or whatever you want to call it will go on for many years, perhaps decades and perhaps generations, regardless of what the US does or does not do. The length of the war is not in our control, but we will have to fight because we will continue to be attacked.
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Yet another argument of convenience. Essentially "we have no plan, we have no end game, we've made things worse; but if we keep in this line for some undetermined number of decades, spend 10's of thousands of American lives, trillions of American dollars....well I'm sure it will be resolved".

History doesn't really seem to support this argument.
 
Grant said:
Islamism began well before that. You should familiarize yourself with the movement because its very much in your future.
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There has always been some form of terrorists. So long as there are pissed off people without voice, there will be terrorists. What I want to know is how are you making it better?

Hint....you haven't.
 
Ikari said:
13 years ago, terrorists struck our soil proper. 13 years. Today terrorists struck huge. Why? In 13 years we didn't solve the problem, in fact we seem to have made it worse. You don't understand history and data, huh?
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How did America make it worse?? Do you actually understand who the aggressors are, and their goals?
 
Ikari said:
13 years ago, terrorists struck our soil proper. 13 years. Today terrorists struck huge. Why? In 13 years we didn't solve the problem, in fact we seem to have made it worse. You don't understand history and data, huh?
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And how does one solve the problem of terrorism, empathy?
 
Ikari said:
There has always been some form of terrorists. So long as there are pissed off people without voice, there will be terrorists. What I want to know is how are you making it better?

Hint....you haven't.
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Damn! I've been talking to a child.
 
Grant said:
How did America make it worse?? Do you actually understand who the aggressors are, and their goals?
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How? Because it was at X%, we involved ourselves militarily, now it's Y% and Y>X

Do you understand math and inequalities?
 
bubbabgone said:
And how does one solve the problem of terrorism, empathy?
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The truth? You can't. You can try to work with countries and people in order to create a more friendly environment and one built a bit better on trade and diplomacy. But the number will never be zero.
 
Ikari said:
Yet another argument of convenience. Essentially "we have no plan, we have no end game, we've made things worse; but if we keep in this line for some undetermined number of decades, spend 10's of thousands of American lives, trillions of American dollars....well I'm sure it will be resolved".

History doesn't really seem to support this argument.
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The war was not started by us. We can have all the plans we want but the other side gets to play too. Even if we were to cease all operations we would still be attacked. As an English churchman once observed, "It does no good for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism if wolves remain of a contrary opinion." We fight until our enemies have been destroyed or cease to threaten us.
 
Jack Hays said:
The war was not started by us. We can have all the plans we want but the other side gets to play too. Even if we were to cease all operations we would still be attacked. As an English churchman once observed, "It does no good for sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism if wolves remain of a contrary opinion." We fight until our enemies have been destroyed or cease to threaten us.
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This war wasn't started by us, but we've been meddling in the affairs of the middle east for over 60 years. Even more if you want to talk about conflict in general between Europe/West and the Middle East.
 
Ikari said:
This war wasn't started by us, but we've been meddling in the affairs of the middle east for over 60 years. Even more if you want to talk about conflict in general between Europe/West and the Middle East.
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Yes, we are a great nation with wide-ranging interests, responsibilities and obligations. That does not change the fact that our current war will continue.
 
Jack Hays said:
Yes, we are a great nation with wide-ranging interests, responsibilities and obligations. That does not change the fact that our current war will continue.
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I have no doubt this infinity war will continue. It's just not going to solve anything. No matter how many American lives you throw at it.
 
Ikari said:
I have no doubt this infinity war will continue. It's just not going to solve anything. No matter how many American lives you throw at it.
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Few wars solve anything. Most just establish the conditions for the next round. Epochal outcomes like WW2 in 1945 are rare. The current war is powered by political, social, economic and cultural decay in the Muslim world, and the frustration and rage generated by that. It took centuries of decline to bring them to this point, let us hope the fever subsides in only decades.
 
Jack Hays said:
Few wars solve anything. Most just establish the conditions for the next round. Epochal outcomes like WW2 in 1945 are rare. The current war is powered by political, social, economic and cultural decay in the Muslim world, and the frustration and rage generated by that. It took centuries of decline to bring them to this point, let us hope the fever subsides in only decades.
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The last declared one solved a problem. Probably why we shouldn't go to war unless we can get an actual declaration.

So how many more years? How many more Americans are you willing to sacrifice for your war?
 
Ikari said:
The truth? You can't. You can try to work with countries and people in order to create a more friendly environment and one built a bit better on trade and diplomacy. But the number will never be zero.
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Okay ... there are a couple of problems with that approach.
1) Countries are disinclined to work with us if we show weakness because it encourages terrorism in Countries of erstwhile allies like Pakistan because it works to intimidate them into not cooperating with us.
2) We show weakness by withdrawing as we are doing and maybe even more importantly, by shooting ourselves in our own ass by releasing things like the Gitmo report which can do no good in the sense we're discussing here.
 
Ikari said:
The last declared one solved a problem. Probably why we shouldn't go to war unless we can get an actual declaration.

So how many more years? How many more Americans are you willing to sacrifice for your war?
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For the third time, the timetable is not ours to set. All I can say is that we must prevail.
 
bubbabgone said:
Okay ... there are a couple of problems with that approach.
1) Countries are disinclined to work with us if we show weakness because it encourages terrorism in Countries of erstwhile allies like Pakistan because it works to intimidate them into not cooperating with us.
2) We show weakness by withdrawing as we are doing and maybe even more importantly, by shooting ourselves in our own ass by releasing things like the Gitmo report which can do no good in the sense we're discussing here.
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Oh? But throwing American lives at a problem through actions which have proven, through history, to not be effective; that's the solution?

So "showing weakness" means what? Examining our past actions and how much progress has been made and lost, then augmenting our actions based on those facts? How many more decades? How many more American lives? How many more trillions of dollars? It's all I want to know.
 
Jack Hays said:
For the third time, the timetable is not ours to set. All I can say is that we must prevail.
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Yet another convenient argument. You can say all you want, it doesn't make it any less of a deflection against the statement. How many more Americans need to die before you're satisfied?
 
Ikari said:
Yet another convenient argument. You can say all you want, it doesn't make it any less of a deflection against the statement. How many more Americans need to die before you're satisfied?
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I already answered but you apparently did not recognize the answer. We will incur as many casualties over as many years as it takes to win.
 
Ikari said:
Oh? But throwing American lives at a problem through actions which have proven, through history, to not be effective; that's the solution?

So "showing weakness" means what? Examining our past actions and how much progress has been made and lost, then augmenting our actions based on those facts? How many more decades? How many more American lives? How many more trillions of dollars? It's all I want to know.
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For one thing, the number of lives not lost and dollars not spent are not a measurement of success against terrorism.
 
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