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Gitmo inmate: My treatment shames American flag [W:508,759]

I don't really care what the majority of the planet thinks of us, to be honest. This isn't something that just happened in the last decade. Not sure why anyone is surprised to think we aren't the most popular people on the planet.

I don't agree with what they did. But I also don't disagree with what they did. I agree with Brennan that isn't unknowable if it worked or not, but I do wonder in my mind just how much Mohammed would have given up for a cookie and a soft warm bed. But again, that would be like speculating how different my life would have been if I'd taken a left turn on November 18, 1979 instead a right. You can't answer it.

So now that this is all out in the open (even though everyone knew years ago, which is why the EITs were stopped), what does the report suggest be done about it?

The point of the report was to give us that black-eye, it was never the point to make suggestions. The report itself was a political stunt with real implications for us internationally. But we are here now, we cannot unring this bell thanks to the idiots on the hill. However, we did all these things. Why does no one want to talk about that?

And you should care what the international community thinks, how we have decided to engage the majority of the planet is what really puts us in danger. The fact that we did these things, and now more know about it in detail is what puts us in danger. It is more than the report, it is our willingness to ignore our own principles of law when running around the planet telling the rest of the world what to do.
 
I don't think we should have 'respect' for our enemy but I think we are just better than that. Like we should set an example not lay down in the gutter. Would you want someone a captured Amercian to get that same treatment?

Mornin AW.
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Well militarily one can but that doesn't mean you use empathy and respect like Hillary stated. Do you actually think if we lay down an example this will stop the torture that is done to our people?

What do you think is done to our people now? That aren't even military or Intel people. Nothing but some innocent people like aid workers and Journalists.
 
The point of the report was to give us that black-eye, it was never the point to make suggestions. The report itself was a political stunt with real implications for us internationally. But we are here now, we cannot unring this bell thanks to the idiots on the hill. However, we did all these things. Why does no one want to talk about that?

And you should care what the international community thinks, how we have decided to engage the majority of the planet is what really puts us in danger. The fact that we did these things, and now more know about it in detail is what puts us in danger. It is more than the report, it is our willingness to ignore our own principles of law when running around the planet telling the rest of the world what to do.

I didn't know that people weren't talking about it? I can't turn on the news without it being discussed.

If this report makes the international community dislike us even more than they already did, and we are now in danger again - remember, we haven't had an attack on this country in over 13 years - then Feinstein and her fellow Democrats own that responsibility.

And unless I'm wrong, we stopped EITs a few years ago. Not sure what more can be done now, short of publicly executing the ones who did it, and that won't happen.
 
This guy admitted he was a member of the 55th Arab Brigade, participated in the fight at Tora Bora, and was in fact a Bin Laden body guard. Perhaps he'd prefer the treatment accorded Bin Laden instead.
 
Which major countries do not use the Saudis for Business and in not doing so, use regimes or Governments that are worse than the Saud? Then we want all those who do business with the Saud. Major countries and major players. Did you want to harp on your country's Business with the Saud?

You can do what you like. I'm saying that it's difficult to single out ISIS for beheadings and stonings when Saudi Arabia is far worse in this regard, and Western countries still do business with them. In fact, ISIS is born out of the religious extremism found in Saudi Arabia.
 
I I may be mistaken, but last time I checked, Guantanamo Bay is United states territory.


Yes, you are mistaken. Guantanamo is Cuban terrirory leased by the U.S.
 
You can do what you like. I'm saying that it's difficult to single out ISIS for beheadings and stonings when Saudi Arabia is far worse in this regard, and Western countries still do business with them. In fact, ISIS is born out of the religious extremism found in Saudi Arabia.

Do you have any info on the Saud cutting children's heads off and blowing their heads off their shoulders? Crucifying people and leaving them up on the side of the road?

As ISIS does.

So much for the Saudi being as worse. Which isn't to say what they do is Right either. But now your argument, really isn't one.
 
Mornin AW.
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Well militarily one can but that doesn't mean you use empathy and respect like Hillary stated. Do you actually think if we lay down an example this will stop the torture that is done to our people?

What do you think is done to our people now? That aren't even military or Intel people. Nothing but some innocent people like aid workers and Journalists.

Good morning MMC! :2wave: I don't know if we set an example others will follow but I'd rather be the example than acting like the enemy. I can't deny what they are doing to innocent people is horrible but then those people should be captured, tried, and deat with and I just don't think we should be the ones doing it anymore. Let those countries fight the terrorism in their own countries and whatever happens happens. This may sound a little harsh and I do have the utmost respect for aid workers and journalists but they should know what and where they are going and the risks. As I just said in another torture thread, we need to start thinking of ourselves and our country for once.
 
Do you have any info on the Saud cutting children's heads off and blowing their heads off their shoulders? Crucifying people and leaving them up on the sideof the road?

I'm not defending ISIS or Saudi Arabia. You seem to be doing a bit of goal post moving.
 
Good morning MMC! :2wave: I don't know if we set an example others will follow but I'd rather be the example than acting like the enemy. I can't deny what they are doing to innocent people is horrible but then those people should be captured, tried, and deat with and I just don't think we should be the ones doing it anymore. Let those countries fight the terrorism in their own countries and whatever happens happens. This may sound a little harsh and I do have the utmost respect for aid workers and journalists but they should know what and where they are going and the risks. As I just said in another torture thread, we need to start thinking of ourselves and our country for once.


Its not a difficult matter AW. We have a terrorist enemy who has knowledge of his battlefield, in order to save lives. That knowledge must be extracted. Now the FBI cannot get a terrorist to talk. Once that takes place. There is no other way to extract the info to save those lives. Or to know whats coming. Although really there should be no reason for FBI involvement in the First place and not with Prisoners of War.

Can't just inject them with drugs and think that will work. Lives are in the balance....some not even ours. But they are those who believe in us and that we will help.
 
I'm not defending ISIS or Saudi Arabia. You seem to be doing a bit of goal post moving.

No, no, no
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.....you wanted to empathize, remember. You wanted to blame the US for doing business with the Saud. To do so means you have to walk in their shoes. So those shoes the Saud has aren't the Right Fit, they are close. Just not that Cinderella.
 
Its not a difficult matter AW. We have a terrorist enemy who has knowledge of his battlefield, in order to save lives. That knowledge must be extracted. Now the FBI cannot get a terrorist to talk. Once that takes place. There is no other way to extract the info to save those lives. Or to know whats coming. Although really there should be no reason for FBI involvement in the First place and not with Prisoners of War.

Can't just inject them with drugs and think that will work. Lives are in the balance....some not even ours. But they are those who believe in us and that we will help.

I just don't agree with torture as a means to extract knowledge. Obviously for all the people we've caught since the war on terror began over a decade again, all that knowledge hasn't seemed to help us stop terrorism and it's in fact flourishing in some parts. So maybe there is a different possibly better way to do things which don't involve torturing.
 
I just don't agree with torture as a means to extract knowledge. Obviously for all the people we've caught since the war on terror began over a decade again, all that knowledge hasn't seemed to help us stop terrorism and it's in fact flourishing in some parts. So maybe there is a different possibly better way to do things which don't involve torturing.


I understand it is a hard choice to make.....but it does get easier if one includes family or those who mean the most to them.

That is false.....the Demos cherry picking a few cases doesn't tell the story and is not factual. ISIS killed over 5400 people last month alone. They have killed over 20k since June. Well over 20k. Which doesn't count AQ or Al nusra. Nor Ansar al Sharia.

Just like they listed down rectal feeding.....what they didn't tell you. Was it, had nothing to do with Interrogation. Or any EIT's, it was medical that it had to be done to save their lives. It also wasn't the only means in getting them rehydrated. They had IVs in too.
 
Do you have any info on the Saud cutting children's heads off and blowing their heads off their shoulders? Crucifying people and leaving them up on the side of the road?

As ISIS does.

So much for the Saudi being as worse. Which isn't to say what they do is Right either. But now your argument, really isn't one.

As far as I'm aware, the Saudis are a large source of ISIS funds, but we don't seem to mind much. They cut us in on the oil deals, so all's good.
 
Why do so many people accept that it's ok for a man to be held for 13 years with no charges pressed, no evidence of his guilt shown, just because he's a foreigner? If he's a terrorist, charge him and execute him, if he's not, then let him go. 13 years is just ****ing ridiculous.

Good post. Speaking of 13 years, I'd like to shake the hands of our special forces soldiers that were submitted to these tactics for 13 years.
 
I understand it is a hard choice to make.....but it does get easier if one includes family or those who mean the most to them.

That is false.....the Demos cherry picking a few cases doesn't tell the story and is not factual. ISIS killed over 5400 people last month alone. They have killed over 20k since June. Well over 20k. Which doesn't count AQ or Al nusra. Nor Ansar al Sharia.

Just like they listed down rectal feeding.....what they didn't tell you. Was it, had nothing to do with Interrogation. Or any EIT's, it was medical that it had to be done to save their lives. It also wasn't the only means in getting them rehydrated. They had IVs in too.

Rectal feeding and hydration are different things. Putting food in the rectum does nothing for the person.
 
Which places it as downright unconstitutional.

I'm curious how it would be "downright unconstitutional" considering the constitutional authority vested in the President of the United States, particularly in times of war. It may be contrary to legislation and/or treaty obligations, but can legislation and/or treaty obligations trump constitutional authority?
 
Why do so many people accept that it's ok for a man to be held for 13 years with no charges pressed, no evidence of his guilt shown, just because he's a foreigner? If he's a terrorist, charge him and execute him, if he's not, then let him go. 13 years is just ****ing ridiculous.

The concept, as I understand it, is that prisoners of war are detained until such time as hostilities end. The fact that the "war on terror" and the war in Afghanistan are the longest lasting wars that America has ever been involved in adds to the length of time a prisoner of war may be held. Do you believe it wise to release enemy "soldiers" while you are still at war with that enemy?
 
As far as I'm aware, the Saudis are a large source of ISIS funds, but we don't seem to mind much. They cut us in on the oil deals, so all's good.

So is Qatar, Kuwait, The UAE, and Bahrain. They also cut the Brits, French, Germans, Italians, Aussies, South American countries, then Chinese, and Russians in on oil deals thru backdoors.

Looks like, business is really good for the Saud.
 
Rectal feeding and hydration are different things. Putting food in the rectum does nothing for the person.

Yeah, and that's why I stated it was done as an emergency medical with rehydration. Feinstein embellished there quite a bit.


While rectal hydration may be used in emergency situations, it’s not the first-, second- or even third-best option, said Allen Keller, director of the Bellevue/New York University Program for Survivors of Torture.....snip~
 
Guantanamo is leased from Cuba, ergo not US Territory. You're in Criminal Justice so you must know that no evidence obtained through torture is admissable in US Courts. As an example, if they tried KSM, a genuine scumbag, in a Stateside Court all evidence would be thrown out as fruit of a tainted tree because he was waterboarded 83 times or more. So he is tried by a military tribunal and he'll definitely be found guilty. Now, Khaled Sheik Mohammed is a genuine piece of crap, but does the USA represent the justice it so proudly declares in the Pledge of Allegiance, "with liberty and justice for all," or does it represent kangaroo Courts. You are in a good position to make an informed decision.

I say Kangaroo Courts.

Those who claim that sleep deprivation is NOT torture should try having someone else impose it on themselves....
 
1) Libertarians do not offer any cohesive vision of a functioning society. Little House on the Prairie and The Waltons were TV shows. Life was not bliss. and

2) Of course they do because they want everything closed, disassembled, unfunded--See #1 above.

:yawn:

Hey, can we get back to intelligent discourse now? The hackery is getting kinda old.
 
My question is, what does someone do to get into Guantanamo Bay.

And if they do sell their souls to get their, why should I feel sorry for them in any way? Why should I want to keep them safe in any way? Why should I care about their non-existent rights?

It takes a lot to get into that place it seems. Outside of getting the wrong person, I can't see why there's anything wrong with what goes in on Guantanamo Bay considering the evil beings that get put in there.

Plus, it's intel gathering on the enemies of the USA, so it serves a practical purpose.
 
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