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Elizabeth Warren to Dems: Kill the bill

American said:
He was promoting the virtues of big govt. That is not what built most of this country. Trouble with your thinking is you think people would never start a business until some govt agency built a ****ing road. It's the other way around. Obama was being a 100% big govt ass.
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Rightfully pointing out that government can be beneficial = "being a big government ass."

The day you make a logical argument based in reality will be a wondrous one.
 
vesper said:
I got to tell you, I am livid over what happened yesterday. When you consider, just about every Republican now serving in the House is there because of running on getting rid of Obamacare, cut government spending, and stop immigration reform before building the damn fence. Every Republican that voted yes yesterday broke all their campaign promises in one damn vote.

The reason there isn't a damn fence built yet even though it was ordered to be built and funded prior to 2006 is because the Chamber of Commerce didn't want a fence. The Chamber of Commerce also wants amnesty for all their illegal workers they hire. The Chamber of Commerce has lobbied hard for amnesty and had done so with a lot of hard cash. Hope those Republicans who voted yes yesterday will be happy with the love the Chamber of Commerce will give them because that vote cost them a lot of love with their constituents. Hope they all enjoy their next two years in Washington and plan on spending a lot of money on their challenged primaries next time around. People aren't going to forget this one.
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Greetings, Vesper. :2wave:

One can only hope there is a method to their madness on this - a larger picture that we are not yet aware of. IMO, the voters overwhelmingly told them what they wanted - bipartisanship and cooperation between the parties to get this country and its problems handled NOW! I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet, because the new Congress hasn't even been sworn in yet, but I agree this was a shocker. WTH is going on? Are the voters going to be ignored yet again? When millions of people tell you what they want, it isn't the smartest thing to disregard them! We shall see. :2mad:
 
j-mac said:
Yesterday, I was confronted after calling Elizabeth Warren a liar by Cardinal who not only lashed into a pretty insulting tirade aimed at myself, but anyone else that couldn't, or wouldn't play his game of "produce what I demand NOW!"

Warren represents the worst of progressive thought, and action. She is possibly worse than Obama on that front as to the threat she poses to our system of Government, and Economy. Consider in light of this thread where she, in the party of power in the Senate until the end of the month, and a person who said this last year during what was labeled "the Republican shutdown" by libs, and media libs, (start watching at 3:55):



So today would she say that SHE is the one that can't accept the reality of losing an election? Would she consider herself a hostage taker who can't win their fights any other way, and should "get out of the way"? It's rich I tell ya....

When Warren was speaking at the Democratic National Convention, she said at one point while attacking Ted Cruz, and I quote...."...Maybe if they weren't busy saying No, No, No, then we could build a bridge"... Really? Who's saying "No" to this now Liz? She is...Using the very same tactic she denounced when Republican's like Cruz used it...So, what's she for? What she said then? Or now?

Clearly she is a liar...About the Native American claim...

The Washington Post, (clearly NOT a conservative outlet) reports:

"When she [Elizabeth Warren] applied to Penn and Harvard, she checked the box claiming she was Native American..."

The Facts

Warren’s Lineage


So when she claimed that she was at least in part Native American, that was a pure lie.

Of course the list goes on like most hypocrites in DC there is a long list....But Warren, being an unabashed progressive, anti capitalist, and in many ways Socialist that is further to the left than even Obama, is a further danger to this country...She should be scoffed, and castigated whenever possible.
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You of course left out the best part from your cherry picked source:

"Obviously, this doesn’t preclude Warren from having traces of Native American heritage."

Also left out from your own source:

What about the stories that Warren claims to have heard from her family? The Globe interviewed an extensive list of the professor’s relatives, who had conflicting memories. Some recalled stories of Indian ancestors, others did not.

One second cousin told the Globe that her grandmother had said that her father — one of Warren’s relatives — was part Delaware Indian. But the cousin’s mother, who did not approve of Native Americans, had always denied that claim, according to the Globe.

Warren’s siblings have all backed up the candidate’s statements. One brother told the Globe that his grandparents explained to him, after much pleading to get answers as a child, that “your grandfather is part Delaware, a little bitty bit, way back, and your grandmother is part Cherokee,” according to the Globe.
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That sounds a lot like my family, actually. I'm Jewish, but there's a chunk of my family that is, believe it or not, extremely antisemitic, and will swear up and down it's not true at all. But that's families for you. So what have here is a clear case of he said/she said, but you're just automatically going for the narrative that fits your political ideology only. You literally have no basis whatsoever for choosing one side over the other. But like Birthers you'll just repeat it over and over again anyway, because politics.
 
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vesper said:
I got to tell you, I am livid over what happened yesterday. When you consider, just about every Republican now serving in the House is there because of running on getting rid of Obamacare, cut government spending, and stop immigration reform before building the damn fence. Every Republican that voted yes yesterday broke all their campaign promises in one damn vote.

The reason there isn't a damn fence built yet even though it was ordered to be built and funded prior to 2006 is because the Chamber of Commerce didn't want a fence. The Chamber of Commerce also wants amnesty for all their illegal workers they hire. The Chamber of Commerce has lobbied hard for amnesty and had done so with a lot of hard cash. Hope those Republicans who voted yes yesterday will be happy with the love the Chamber of Commerce will give them because that vote cost them a lot of love with their constituents. Hope they all enjoy their next two years in Washington and plan on spending a lot of money on their challenged primaries next time around. People aren't going to forget this one.
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Yep, yet another massive, pork laden, spending bill, that was not read by anyone, passes because time to actually govern is severely limited. You are likely wrong that people will remember this - mostly they will still snooze through the primaries and then vote straight party tickets in the general.
 
I kinda find the complaints about republicans being anti obamacare in this context absurd. Not because I think they're wrong, but because unlike last time, they bit the gambit and left funding for that and the immigration action in place. So dammed if one does decide to force partisanship, and dammed if one doesn't.

The way i see it, the situation so far looks like the reverse of roles with the budgeting compared to last time. Instead of Republicans it sounds like Democrats would rather shut the government down and refuse to compromise
 
Cardinal said:
You literally have no basis whatsoever for choosing one side over the other.
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Warren also had no basis for choosing one side over the other but she did. And she made that choice, which was a lie, for obvious political and financial reasons.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
Yep, yet another massive, pork laden, spending bill, that was not read by anyone, passes because time to actually govern is severely limited. You are likely wrong that people will remember this - mostly they will still snooze through the primaries and then vote straight party tickets in the general.
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We shall see if I am wrong. There are a lot of folks out there ready to remind the voters how their congressperson voted. And I look to see many of them challenged in their primaries over it. Now there is a real possibility that before their term is up this time, the Supremes will have ruled on the case they have agreed to hear this coming Spring challenging federal funds being sent to states that did not set up market places. If the Supremes rules against the subsidies, Obamacare crumbles. Or something could come out of the case the House filed against Obama over legislating from the Oval office on Obamacare. There is already a bill that has passed the House calling for the fence to be built ASAP. Harry Reid shelved it sometime back. With the new Senate majority coming in this January, that will likely go to Obama's desk to be signed. If the fence gets built then Repubs take credit if Obama vetoes it could be real damning for Democrats politically as they are already warning of another huge insurgence of illegals from the South border.
 
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Grant said:
Warren also had no basis for choosing one side over the other but she did. And she made that choice, which was a lie, for obvious political and financial reasons.
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It's her family, not yours, so you're not in a position to conclude anything. I have Jewish lineage but part of my family believes otherwise. Do you automatically take their side?
 
Cardinal said:
You of course left out the best part from your cherry picked source:

"Obviously, this doesn’t preclude Warren from having traces of Native American heritage."

Also left out from your own source:
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1. I left out "traces" from what I quoted because it isn't relevant what, or how the writer wants to try and mitigate her lies. This is the writers opinion, I listed the facts.

2. As for the Globe story, all you are including is hearsay...Some in her family say it's true, some say it they can't remember, but the fact is that she listed on her college apps that she was "Native American"... to IMHO, to gain special considerations that she wasn't entitled to. She is a liar by definition. This is explained in what I posted.

That sounds a lot like my family, actually. I'm Jewish, but there's a chunk of my family that is, believe it or not, extremely antisemitic, and will swear up and down it's not true at all. But that's families for you. So what have here is a clear case of he said/she said, but you're just automatically going for the narrative that fits your political ideology only. You literally have no basis whatsoever for choosing one side over the other.
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You point one finger at me here, while three of your own are pointing back at you...Tell me why you believe she is Native American? Do you have any verifiable proof at all that she is?

You came at me last night in a very aggressive manner to mock, and call me out, now you seem like instead of disputing my proof, you are more making excuses for her...Also, you have nothing at all to say about the clip of what I posted about what she said during the so called "Republican shutdown" while today, doing exactly what she was railing about...And yet you still think she is not a liar? But want to call me partisan? *Scoff*!
 
Cardinal said:
It's her family, not yours, so you're not in a position to conclude anything. I have Jewish lineage but part of my family believes otherwise. Do you automatically take their side?
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You taking people's right to an opinion away again? Of course he can conclude whatever he wants, regardless of how outrageous you deem it may be. Facts however are a wonderful thing.

Washington Post said:
Warren’s Lineage

Warren has claimed Cherokee and Delaware Indian heritage, but the only proof so far seems to be stories she says she heard from family members as a child. Cherokee groups have demanded documentation of the candidate’s Native American ancestry, but she hasn’t delivered. Did Elizabeth Warren check the Native American box when she ‘applied’ to Harvard and Penn? - The Washington Post
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My guess is she never will provide proof - that doesn't mean somewhere in the tens of thousands of years of history some gene may be American Indian.... it's just that there is no evidence to support it other than Warren's say so and... forgive me for being so cynical ... but I don't take politicians say so on much, especially from the creator of "you didn't build that". :lamo
 
vesper said:
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We shall see if I am wrong. There are a lot of folks out there ready to remind the voters how their congressperson voted. And I look to see many of them challenged in their primaries over it. Now there is a real possibility that before their term is up this time, the Supremes will have ruled on the case they have agreed to hear this coming Spring challenging federal funds being sent to states that did not set up market places. If the Supremes rule in favor of the defendant, Obamacare crumbles. Or something could come out of the case the House filed against Obama over legislating from the Oval office on Obamacare. There is already a bill that has passed the House calling for the fence to be built ASAP. Harry Reid shelved it sometime back. With the new Senate majority coming in this January, that will likely go to Obama's desk to be signed. If the fence gets built then Repubs take credit if Obama vetoes it could be real damning for Democrats politically as they are already warning of another huge insurgence of illegals from the South border.
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Building a border fence is a joke. What is required is real enforcement within the interior with real, and severe, penalties for anyone that employes illegal labor. We now have 10X as many federal TSA airport nannies as federal ICE agents. With up to 20 million illegals now inside the US, and those folks creating more US citizen "anchor babies" every day, it does not much matter if we make a "solid commitment" to better secure the border within a decade or so. We can currently remove only about 400K illegals per year and at considerable expense - meaning that to simply remove those illegals already here will take decades even if we managed to stop all new illegal entries tomorrow.
 
Cardinal said:
It's her family, not yours, so you're not in a position to conclude anything. I have Jewish lineage but part of my family believes otherwise. Do you automatically take their side?
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Lineage is a pretty easy thing to prove. For instance, records are kept. In the case of claiming 'native american' status, the blood would tell the story...Not to mention on this the people that could conclusively verify whether she is a bonafide Native American say no, she is not.

That's all you need unless you are so blind as to just support anything she spews.
 
Ockham said:
You taking people's right to an opinion away again? Of course he can conclude whatever he wants, regardless of how outrageous you deem it may be. Facts however are a wonderful thing.



My guess is she never will provide proof - that doesn't mean somewhere in the tens of thousands of years of history some gene may be American Indian.... it's just that there is no evidence to support it other than Warren's say so and... forgive me for being so cynical ... but I don't take politicians say so on much, especially from the creator of "you didn't build that". :lamo
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Absolutely....
 
j-mac said:
Lineage is a pretty easy thing to prove. For instance, records are kept. In the case of claiming 'native american' status, the blood would tell the story...Not to mention on this the people that could conclusively verify whether she is a bonafide Native American say no, she is not.

That's all you need unless you are so blind as to just support anything she spews.
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And yet you blindly accept that it's a lie. Think about that. I don't blindly accept that she's absolutely Native American, but what's there for me to deny or reject? It's not my family and it's not for me to say. Lots of people have different kinds of ancestry, and not everyone walks around with tidy little bundles of documentation for everything they have in their lineage.
 
Ockham said:
You taking people's right to an opinion away again? Of course he can conclude whatever he wants, regardless of how outrageous you deem it may be. Facts however are a wonderful thing.
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Yes, I'm coming to take away your freedom of speech.

BOO!
 
Cardinal said:
It's her family, not yours, so you're not in a position to conclude anything. I have Jewish lineage but part of my family believes otherwise. Do you automatically take their side?
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I don't care abut your lineage as it's not pertinent to this discussion and yes, I understand as well that Elizabeth Warren is not part of my family.

The fact is she was uncertain about her lineage until it came time to check the little box.
 
Elizabeth Warren's lineage is utterly irrelevant to the passage of this bill.
 
Grant said:
I don't care abut your lineage as it's not pertinent to this discussion and yes, I understand as well that Elizabeth Warren is not part of my family.

The fact is she was uncertain about her lineage until it came time to check the little box.
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And you know this how?
 
Kobie said:
Elizabeth Warren's lineage is utterly irrelevant to the passage of this bill.
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I find it completely relevant that Warren is so far above reproach that this is their best "scandal." As ridiculous as Birtherism was you could sort of dance to it, while this is just one giant wtf.
 
eohrnberger said:
Another failed excessively, and needless complex piece of exponentially government growing POS legislation.



Exactly. All that'd have to be done would be to bring back the Glass-Steagall act with a bit of freshening up.



Yup. That too is stifling the economy and the recovery, and will continue to do so until they are repealed / lifted, and we've got all this government debt and ObamaCare bills that we have to pay for. Not time to be stifling the economy. It needs to be on turbo chargers.
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Originally Posted by ludin View Post
also the bill isn't getting rid of all regulations on default swaps but expanding the ones that can be used.

a large part of the lack of recovery was that lending and business investment was stifled under this administration.
without the outflow of capital companies had a hard time expanding and generating revenue.

What’s in the spending bill? We skim it so you don’t have to - The Washington Post

here is a list of all the things in the budget.

I really like the one that puts a clamp on the EPA clean water act over-reach.
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They are making the very same arguments they did in the 90's when the housing bubble issue became suddenly very expanded. I recall the debate here, to follow suit at relaxing regulations, and hearing all these wonderful arguments and to a degree believed them. We had a very conservative opposition leader at the time who fought the measure full tilt and got it before a Royal Commission, which recommended Canada TIGHTEN its regulations, and went further but denied investment credits for derivative investments of any %.

Today, nearly seven years later, the US is showing signs of restoration, but thousands of people have been sent into poverty by the losses in their personal investments. Meanwhile, Canada never was in 'recession', did not need to bail anyone out, and the nation has prospered. The Canadian banking system is now envied globally, it's architect, the then Governor of the Bank of Canada is now heading up European banking and sorting out the socialist damage.

The moral is, greed triumphs over recent experience.
 
I only have time for one post tres, and you're the lucky choice.

With limited time, try PoliticoHeadlines.com and you'll find all the stories folks are quoting/linking.

To further trash DEMs, Wasserman-Schultz is on the sell-out side with Biden, Obama and Reid.
Standing with Sarah palin against bank giveaways are DCCC chair Israel, Cummings, Warren and of course Pelosi.
I'm actually enjoying this--the Pelosi--DWS war.

GOP public dissent is mostly muted due to the silent whipping of McConnell.
Look for the GOP fissures to reopen next year when hard-core CONs want pay-back on Obama from Boehner/McConnell.
Boehner/McConnell want a productive term, keeping their majorities after the 2016 election .

tres borrachos said:
Hi Nimby, I agree with what you say here. I really don't believe that McConnell is that stupid. He has too many of his own coming up for re-election in 2016 which very likely could end up being a wave election for the Democrats (like 2008 and 2012). He isn't going to intentionally torpedo his majority. He will be much more willing to work with the Dems than I think everyone is assuming.
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ttwtt78640 said:
Building a border fence is a joke. What is required is real enforcement within the interior with real, and severe, penalties for anyone that employes illegal labor. We now have 10X as many federal TSA airport nannies as federal ICE agents. With up to 20 million illegals now inside the US, and those folks creating more US citizen "anchor babies" every day, it does not much matter if we make a "solid commitment" to better secure the border within a decade or so. We can currently remove only about 400K illegals per year and at considerable expense - meaning that to simply remove those illegals already here will take decades even if we managed to stop all new illegal entries tomorrow.
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I looked up the bill passed by the House this year and it seems to cover much of your concerns. Much more than just building a fence.

(1) improve border security;


(2) enforce laws and policies to stem the flow of illegal entries into the United States;


(3) enact laws and implement new policies to stem the flow of illegal entries into the United States, including increasing penalties for human smuggling;



(4) conduct public outreach campaigns to explain the dangers of the journey to the Southwest Border of the United States, emphasize the lack of immigration benefits available, and emphasize that illegal aliens will be removed to their country;


(5) cooperate with United States Federal agencies to facilitate and expedite the return, repatriation, and reintegration of illegal migrants arriving at the Southwest Border
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Text of H.R.5230 as Placed on Calendar Senate: Secure the Southwest Border Supplemental Appropriations Act, 2014... OpenCongress

I also remember Senator Thune of S. Dakota trying to get an amendment to the Immigration Bill that came out of the Senate that would have done the same thing. But the Democrats would have none of it.

Oh well, now we have the Republicans funding Obama's E.O. Amnesty. Just marvelous!
 
Cardinal said:
And yet you blindly accept that it's a lie. Think about that. I don't blindly accept that she's absolutely Native American, but what's there for me to deny or reject? It's not my family and it's not for me to say. Lots of people have different kinds of ancestry, and not everyone walks around with tidy little bundles of documentation for everything they have in their lineage.
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Isn't that convenient for you....Last night you attacked me for saying she lied about this, and she clearly used it on applications to Penn, and Harvard...Now you all the sudden when faced with the facts fold like a cheap suit and can't say because it isn't "Your family".... LOL, ok, then maybe you shouldn't have acted like you did last night if you didn't want to get it right back...Good day.
 
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