UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

Thoreau72 · Dec 31, 2014

Conservative said:
It really is amazing how big those drones were that flew into the WTC. Where were drones that big created? Guess the video was wrong, probably produced in Hollywood, right?

The US has been operating drone aircraft since 1948, the year after I was born. It is no longer rocket science, in case you haven't noticed. Drones are so ordinary that Amazon wants to start delivering product by drone. Wake up my man.

Conservative · Dec 31, 2014

Henry David said:
The US has been operating drone aircraft since 1948, the year after I was born. It is no longer rocket science, in case you haven't noticed. Drones are so ordinary that Amazon wants to start delivering product by drone. Wake up my man.

No, my man, you wake up

j-mac · Dec 31, 2014

Henry David said:
Heck, I think so much and feel so little that when I watched the news helicopters flying over Shanksville PA on that fateful day, I had the same questions the news guy talking had--where was the wrecked airliner? It wasn't there, and 13 years later we know what actually happened there.

Point is, there actually were no mythical hijackers that you refer to. Yes, airplanes DID fly into those towers, but they were drone aircraft controlled by wicked men working behind the scenes in what might best be described as the military industrial complex.

We were all deceived that day, and only about half of us now recognize that.

I would suggest you need to study a bit more and perhaps sharpen your analytical thinking skills. Things are not always as they appear.

OMG are you for real? Tell us of the people on those flights, what happened to them?

Boo Radley · Jan 1, 2015

Conservative said:
waterboarding does not leave physical or psychological damage and I know you are doing nothing but diverting from answering the question. What actions would you authorize to save your wife, kids, or parents?

Not according to those who know more than you.

I couldn't care less what we do with people who burn innocent people alive, authorize and organize flying airplanes into buildings, would detonate a nuclear device in your home town. Guess that is the difference between logic and common sense and you

I must keep repeating we did this to innocent people. The record show some 26 innocent people.

Boo Radley · Jan 1, 2015

Excon said:
Yes it is rebuttal that is on point.
There were no charges.
"An unwillingness" is nothing but your spin.
There were no charges and there will be no charges.

No, it's an unwillingness to prosecute.

Wrong on all counts.

Deeply insightful, but no.

:doh
Wrong again.
He died because folks who were not authorized (as in acting on there own) severely battered his body and was left untreated.
He did not die because of being in that stress position as you want to lamely assert.

You're missing the cause of death. Suffocation due to the stress position. And remember, he was innocent.

Wrong. You failed to counter the rebuttal and you can not. There were no charges and there will be no charges.
And the Memo is all that is needed.

No on suggests there were charges. Nor does that matter at all.

You are again speaking nonsense.
So, as that is your claim. Prove it!

It is that simple. Prove what you assert.

Not how it works. YOU have to show a prosecutor said there was no wrong doing. Not WH council.

j-mac · Jan 1, 2015

Holder said there was a lack of evidence. That is far different than "unwilling"..

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Boo Radley said:
No, it's an unwillingness to prosecute.

That is your claim.
Prove it

Boo Radley said:
Deeply insightful, but no.

:doh But yeah! You are wrong again.

Boo Radley said:
You're missing the cause of death. Suffocation due to the stress position.

:doh
Even though you were given a link to the facts of the case, you still can't help being wrong.
I wonder why you choose to let your agenda blind you to reality.

So let's just show everybody how wrong you were, are, and continue to be. You know, the norm for your postings.

[...]

Death

The findings of Mr. Dilawar's autopsy were succinct.[SUP][4][/SUP]

Leaked internal United States Army documentation, a death certificate dated 12 December 2002, ruled that his death was due to a direct result of assaults and attacks he sustained at the hands of interrogators of the 519th Military Intelligence Battalion during his stay at Bagram. The document was signed by Lt. Col. Elizabeth A. Rouse of the U.S. Air Force, a pathologist with the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology in Washington DC, and listed as its finding that the "mode of death" was "homicide," and not "natural," "accident" and "suicide"[SUP][5][/SUP] and that the cause of death was "blunt-force injuries to lower extremities complicating coronary artery disease".[SUP][6][/SUP]

[...]

Dilawar (torture victim) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Boo Radley said:
No on suggests there were charges. Nor does that matter at all.

:doh
Wrong. The fact that there were no charges does matter.

Boo Radley said:
Not how it works. YOU have to show a prosecutor said there was no wrong doing. Not WH council.

Wrong again.
That is how it works. Your claim is on you to support.

All you are doing is deflecting from supporting your assertion. Obviously because you can't.

Unwillingness you say? What a pathetic argument. :doh

Thoreau72 · Jan 1, 2015

j-mac said:
OMG are you for real? Tell us of the people on those flights, what happened to them?

Let's not derail this thread. You know how to get to CT threads.

You advised me to think more and emote less. I answered that. The rational person must ask "where's Waldo?" I mean where's the damn airplane that is supposed to be there? Is this like The Emperor's New Clothes?

Thoreau72 · Jan 1, 2015

j-mac said:
Holder said there was a lack of evidence. That is far different than "unwilling"..

Too bad Mr. Holder is such an unprofessional goof. Too bad he was oblivious to the statements of Antonio Taguba in 2008, "there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held accountable."

And this guy Holder is the AG? OMG, the DOJ is being led by moral midgets who are also utterly incompetent.

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Henry David said:
Too bad Mr. Holder is such an unprofessional goof. Too bad he was oblivious to the statements of Antonio Taguba in 2008, "there is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held accountable."

And this guy Holder is the AG? OMG, the DOJ is being led by moral midgets who are also utterly incompetent.

:doh
The retired General does not determine what is and isn't a crime.

Thoreau72 · Jan 1, 2015

Excon said:
:doh
The retired General does not determine what is and isn't a crime.

No, but he is a very relevant witness, having conducted a military investigation into torture.

Any dignified and professional AG would be interested in such information. To declare flat out that "there is nothing to investigate", or however Holder phrased it, amounts to gross misfeasance or malfeasance in office.

Taguba apparently has a well-developed conscience. He is able to tell the difference between right and wrong. He knows that torture is an international war crime, and he knows that his government once upon a time prosecuted torture.

Some humans do not have a functioning moral compass, and Holder is one of them.

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Henry David said:
No, but he is a very relevant witness, having conducted a military investigation into torture.

No. His opinion is not a legal one.
Which is what matters.

Thoreau72 · Jan 1, 2015

Excon said:
No. His opinion is not a legal one.
Which is what matters.

Hogwash.

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Henry David said:
Hogwash.

Not at all.
His opinion is not a legal opinion.

Thoreau72 · Jan 1, 2015

Excon said:
Not at all.
His opinion is not a legal opinion.

Your sophistry impresses me in all the wrong ways.

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Henry David said:
Your sophistry impresses me in all the wrong ways.

The fallacious and deceptive arguments have been all yours. Duh!

Do you really not understand that for something to have been a crime it has to have been a violation of the law?
The General's opinion matters not to that.

Threegoofs · Jan 1, 2015

Excon said:
The fallacious and deceptive arguments have been all yours. Duh!

Do you really not understand that for something to have been a crime it has to have been a violation of the law?
The General's opinion matters not to that.

It was a violation of International Law, and a violation of a UN treaty we signed- which makes it a violation of a law.

That's why involved CIA operatives, and other people involved in the decision making are not going to travel internationally anymore if not under a Diplomatic Passport.

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Threegoofs said:
It was a violation of International Law, and a violation of a UN treaty we signed- which makes it a violation of a law.

That's why involved CIA operatives, and other people involved in the decision making are not going to travel internationally anymore if not under a Diplomatic Passport.

We have already been though this.
You are wrong and have no idea of that which you speak.

There has been no violation and there will be no prosecutions.

Thoreau72 · Jan 1, 2015

I think we feel the same about you, excon.

Conservative · Jan 1, 2015

Boo Radley said:
Not according to those who know more than you.

I must keep repeating we did this to innocent people. The record show some 26 innocent people.

So you have shown that you pick and choose what you want to believe. Tell us all why John Brennan claimed that enhanced interrogation saved American lives? Are you telling me that the Obama Administration is lying too?

Deuce · Jan 1, 2015

Conservative said:
Our military is subjected to waterboarding as part of survival training so are you telling me that our military is using illegal techniques on our own troops? How about you answering the question what would you condone to save your wife, kids, or parents?

Waterboarding is torture, yes. We've executed people for doing it to our troops, but apparently you think it's ok if we do it to ourselves? That's interesting. How many months do our troops get waterboarded for? Do they also have food shoved up their ass?

And if it were to save my own family? I'd nuke New York City. That's why due process doesn't work that way. That's why justice doesn't work that way.

I mean seriously. Look at what you're saying here. "Oh, it can't be wrong because America does it."

Do you think that about everything the Obama administration does?

Fenton · Jan 1, 2015

Henry David said:
No, but he is a very relevant witness, having conducted a military investigation into torture.

Any dignified and professional AG would be interested in such information. To declare flat out that "there is nothing to investigate", or however Holder phrased it, amounts to gross misfeasance or malfeasance in office.

Taguba apparently has a well-developed conscience. He is able to tell the difference between right and wrong. He knows that torture is an international war crime, and he knows that his government once upon a time prosecuted torture.

Some humans do not have a functioning moral compass, and Holder is one of them.

Well I agree Holders lacking a moral compass.

But not because he refuses to comply with the demands of a bunch of Bush haters.

The standards of moral decency do not hinge on the obsessions of disgruntled partisan hacks.

Its ironic that those who still repeat the years old false narratives about supposed lies are the ones who claim to hold some moral high ground here.

Excon · Jan 1, 2015

Deuce said:
Waterboarding is torture, yes.

:naughty Waterboarding can be torture.
As conducted by the CIA at the time, it was not.

Deuce said:
We've executed people for doing it to our troops,

:naughty
We did not execute anybody for waterboarding. :doh
If you choose to reply, pay attention to the word which is underlined, and also keep in mind that the waterboarding conducted by the U.S. is not and was not the same as the water torture the Japanese conducted.

Deuce said:
Do they also have food shoved up their ass?

Quit whining about a medical procedure.

Boo Radley · Jan 2, 2015

Excon said:
That is your claim. Prove it

Find any record of anyone even looking at it.

:doh
Even though you were given a link to the facts of the case, you still can't help being wrong.
I wonder why you choose to let your agenda blind you to reality.

Because I know a little more about cause and effect. I don't limit my rerading:

Dilawar and Habibullah died, in part, because they were hooded and shackled to the wire mesh ceiling of their holding cells for hours at a time so that the blood flowed to their legs, turning peroneal strikes into death blows. But the illegal practice of overhead shackling was not the work of bad apples. It was routine at Bagram. It was policy.

Killing Wussification - The Atlantic

And if you have been paying attention, after this came to light, they started limiting these stress positions.

:doh
Wrong. The fact that there were no charges does matter.

No, not one bit. Something isn't only wrong when someone is charged. It's wrong because it is wrong.

Wrong again.
That is how it works. Your claim is on you to support.

All you are doing is deflecting from supporting your assertion. Obviously because you can't.

Unwillingness you say? What a pathetic argument. :doh

No, much wrong happens that reasons other than guilt or innocence leads to charges or no charges. The question has nothing to do with whether charges have or have not been filed.

Boo Radley · Jan 2, 2015

Conservative said:
So you have shown that you pick and choose what you want to believe. Tell us all why John Brennan claimed that enhanced interrogation saved American lives? Are you telling me that the Obama Administration is lying too?

He has to. It doesn't want any more harm to the organization than there is. it's against his interests to state the truth publicly.

UN Officials Demand Prosecutions for US Torture

Thoreau72

Conservative

j-mac

Boo Radley

Boo Radley

j-mac

Excon

Thoreau72

Thoreau72

Excon

Thoreau72

Excon

Thoreau72

Excon

Thoreau72

Excon

Threegoofs

Sophisticated man-about-town

Excon

Thoreau72

Conservative

Deuce

Outer space potato man

Fenton

Excon

Boo Radley

Boo Radley