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Gorbachev calls for U.S.-Russia summit to defrost ties

US Conservative said:
Its already a war, or at least a proxy war.
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I was agreeing. I think troops should be dispatched to Kiev and Odessa under whatever guise is necessary in order to delineate a maximum limit of Russian and Russian proxy advances. Furthermore we should financially support the Ukrainian government as it seeks to double its military budget in anticipation of the threat posed by Russia.
 
US Conservative said:
It wont be a hot war, unless Russia (and its "militias") sends its proxy forces west. Letting them go on unopposed (as they are doing in Sweden, etc) is a recipe for disaster.
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so, let's say that Russia won't give up Crimea, even with the stupid sanctions. what's our next move?
 
Helix said:
so, let's say that Russia won't give up Crimea, even with the stupid sanctions. what's our next move?
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Turn Ukraine into a highly capable frontline state within the Western bulwark. Do the same with Georgia. Stop pretending that we can have a normal relationship with Russia and acknowledge them as a severe threat to a democratic world order.
 
Sherman123 said:
Turn Ukraine into a highly capable frontline state within the Western bulwark. Do the same with Georgia. Stop pretending that we can have a normal relationship with Russia and acknowledge them as a severe threat to a democratic world order.
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stop pretending that we can or should do anything about this. we could collapse Russia's entire economy, and Crimea would still be part of Russia if that's what the region wants. and if it's not what the region wants, then Europe should be handling it, not us.
 
The United States involved itself in Ukraine at the very onset of independence in 1990-1991 (Budapest Memorandum). Every important US government official from Biden on down has visited and supported Kyiv since Maidan. The Ukraine Freedom Act of 2014 has unanimously passed both houses of Congress and designates Ukraine as a Major Non-NATO Ally (MNNA).
 
Helix said:
first off, the Crimea thing is Europe's problem. the US can only **** that whole thing up by getting involved. also, we shouldn't have any more say in that than Russia should if we decide to make Puerto Rico a state.

secondly, we need to stop trying to **** up Russia's economy. i mean, come on, we don't need another cold war, and we definitely don't want to destabilize Russia. if they did that to us, we'd probably consider it an act of war.

i shudder at some of the things we do on the global stage. it would be nice if we could stop ****ing around with the world and just focus on stuff like fixing the bridges, developing new energy tech, and making sure everyone has access to health care without going broke. you know, like be a country for a while.
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If we decided to make Puerto Rico a state, there would be a "vote" free of U.S. Troops there.

As for "Health Care", that is not a function of the Federal Government, so you should have left that off your wish list.
 
Rentoc said:
If we decided to make Puerto Rico a state, there would be a "vote" free of U.S. Troops there.

As for "Health Care", that is not a function of the Federal Government, so you should have left that off your wish list.
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i disagree. health care is an essential service with inelastic demand, and we're already providing universal health care in the most inefficient way possible.

either way, this really has nothing to do with the fact that Crimea is Europe's problem.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Gorbachev calls for U.S.-Russia summit to defrost ties

Good ol Gorby. Many times the voice of reason in the international sphere. I will stand behind his statements. I do believe Russia and the US need to sit down with a broad agenda. I think it should cover everything from Ukraine, Russia roll in Eastern Europe, sanctions, economic influence, the US roll in Eastern Europe, etc. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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I don't support this along as Obama is Prez. Forget it!
 
US Conservative said:
Everything up to a military presence in Ukraine (ours and other NATO members) to make it clear this aggressive behavior wont be tolerated.
Sadly, that should have been done some time ago, and we have a weak POTUS. A leader would have lead, not Obama. Putin can read him like an open book.
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And yet, Russia is in trouble economically due to the sanctions imposed by the west.

Modern warfare between powerful nations is economic, not military. Military conflict between Russia and the US could lead to some pretty serious consequences, as anyone can see.

and, Russia is losing the economic war just now. It seems to me that we're doing exactly what needs to be done.
 
joG said:
Ukraine is primarily a problem between the Europeans and russia. The US role in Eastern Europe is primarily between the US and the Eastern Europeans cum Nato. The problems Russia is creating have very little to do with the US except in the Russians minds. It has everything to do with the Russian approach to a world order, with a communal responsibility to protect populations from excess of their governments. Russia believes that we need to go towards a multi polar structure and not to a communal structure of multilateralism and a robust structure of mutual security.
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If Russia were doing in Mexico or Cuba or Canada what we have been doing for years in Ukraine and Georgia, we would have convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, or just gone ahead and started WWIII.

Gorbachev is correct.
 
American said:
I don't support this along as Obama is Prez. Forget it!
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It ain't gonna happen as long as Obama is Prez.

It did happen when Reagan was Prez, but that was then and this is now.
 
Henry David said:
If Russia were doing in Mexico or Cuba or Canada what we have been doing for years in Ukraine and Georgia, we would have convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, or just gone ahead and started WWIII.

Gorbachev is correct.
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Gorbachev is now 82..Why does he still have an opinion..apart from both being members of the KGB..

We could call back Boris Yelstin..a chronic alcoholic who was sometime too drunk to get out of his private plane..

1991 to 1999.

For 8 years this drunken old man had access to nuclear missiles aimed at America!!
 
twixie1 said:
Gorbachev is now 82..Why does he still have an opinion..apart from both being members of the KGB..

We could call back Boris Yelstin..a chronic alcoholic who was sometime too drunk to get out of his private plane..

1991 to 1999.

For 8 years this drunken old man had access to nuclear missiles aimed at America!!
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No, we cannot "call back" Yeltsin.

Gorbachev is still alive and made his remarks of his own free will.
 
Russia is its own problem because it produces nothing.

Vodka, caviar, and oil. That's it. Drop the oil prices, and you destroy them.

That's called poor planning, and their only response is to wage war.
 
Henry David said:
No, we cannot "call back" Yeltsin.

Gorbachev is still alive and made his remarks of his own free will.
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My post about Yeltsin was tongue in cheek..

Gorbachev however..In a poll in May, Russians rated him as the country’s worst leader of the 20th century – the most successful was Leonid Brezhnev, leader from 1964 to 1982.
 
Henry David said:
If Russia were doing in Mexico or Cuba or Canada what we have been doing for years in Ukraine and Georgia, we would have convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, or just gone ahead and started WWIII.
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I've lived in Ukraine. I'm curious to know what dastardly deeds the US has been doing there "for years" that's even remotely close to what Russia has done there just this year alone?
 
Simpleχity;1064085865 said:
I've lived in Ukraine. I'm curious to know what dastardly deeds the US has been doing there "for years" that's even remotely close to what Russia has done there just this year alone?
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We recently concluded military exercises in Latvia and other Baltic States. Our support for the bastard Kiev government is plain to see.

Are you familiar with what weapons have been delivered by NATO to Ukraine?
 
Henry David said:
We recently concluded military exercises in Latvia and other Baltic States. Our support for the bastard Kiev government is plain to see.

Are you familiar with what weapons have been delivered by NATO to Ukraine?
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to add, before the trouble over there ever started....John McCain was over there ramble rousing.
 
Henry David said:
We recently concluded military exercises in Latvia and other Baltic States. Our support for the bastard Kiev government is plain to see.
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The Baltic States are NATO. You didn't answer my query. What dastardly deeds has the US been doing in Ukraine "for years" as you claimed?
 
Simpleχity;1064085957 said:
The Baltic States are NATO. You didn't answer my query. What dastardly deeds has the US been doing in Ukraine "for years" as you claimed?
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Weakening and helping overthrow legitimate governments. Sending Victoria Nuland as Ambassador. ;)
 
Henry David said:
Weakening and helping overthrow legitimate governments. Sending Victoria Nuland as Ambassador. ;)
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Nuland is the US Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs and has been to dozens of countries in these regions. So what?
 
Helix said:
stop pretending that we can or should do anything about this. we could collapse Russia's entire economy, and Crimea would still be part of Russia if that's what the region wants. and if it's not what the region wants, then Europe should be handling it, not us.
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Therein lies the problem: Europe won't do anything. They always expect us to step up first before moving in to assist, and they use baby steps when doing THAT.
 
Henry David said:
If Russia were doing in Mexico or Cuba or Canada what we have been doing for years in Ukraine and Georgia, we would have convened an emergency session of the UN Security Council, or just gone ahead and started WWIII.

Gorbachev is correct.
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What the hell are you yelping about? We haven't done anything "for years" in Ukraine and Georgia.
 
Dittohead not! said:
And yet, Russia is in trouble economically due to the sanctions imposed by the west.

Modern warfare between powerful nations is economic, not military. Military conflict between Russia and the US could lead to some pretty serious consequences, as anyone can see.

and, Russia is losing the economic war just now. It seems to me that we're doing exactly what needs to be done.
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Well, we are told about this economic impact being highly effective but this isn't just a economic issue-people are dying in eastern ukraine in some of the most intense fighting of the last 20 years for nationalism. There are many reasons why people fight.
 
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