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Philly Mayor: ‘You Have Some Police Officers Who Are Increasingly Afraid...."

just put cameras on all of them. that will do a lot to solve the problem, and will protect both the cop and the person being arrested. the solution here is obvious.
 
As Charles Barkley said, the police are the only ones keeping these communities from turning into the wild west.
Police overestimate their importance to the protection of communities. They exaggerate the dangers of their jobs.

Furthermore when you actually do need police it takes them forever to show up because they were too busy pulling someone over for not wearing a seat-belt or showing up with 6 officers because some dude was selling cigarettes on the streets.
 
just put cameras on all of them. that will do a lot to solve the problem, and will protect both the cop and the person being arrested. the solution here is obvious.
How are the cops going to easily plant drugs on people and use excessive force if they have to wear cameras? The solution is obvious and the cops are vehemently against it for obvious reasons.
 
In the NYPD 5% of cops produce 40% of the "resisting arrest" charges; while 15% of their cops produce 72% of the "resisting arrest" charges.

5% of New York cops turn in 40% of "resisting arrest" cases - Vox

If Philly or other cities are reflective of the NYPD's stastitics, it would seem to me there is a small minority of cops who -- somehow -- manage to constantly produce violent interactions with criminals everywhere they go, while another 85% don't seem to have such a problem. Meaning that I heavily suspect that, no, the REAL source of the problem has much more to do with personnel more than anything else.

Seems like a standard paretian distribution to me...

(Paretian discributions are a common occurance when you are looking at performance metrics of this sort).
 
But a lot of this has nothing to do what. I mean if you listen to people like Sharpton, they'll tell you it's about race, and that the cops are just racist. And when you have communities that believe such, their not willing to work with the police force. Hell, there's a lto of good white cops, but for the average black, just think of him as some racist white cop coming into the neighborhood.

You shouldn't listen to people like Sharpton. You shouldn't listen to people like Bartley either.

Not being a black person I don't know what the average black person thinks "of some white cop coming into the neighborhood". Are you black? Do you live in a primarily black community? If you are and you do I have a few questions for you. If you aren't I wonder then how it is that you feel qualified to make the statements you make.
 
:shrug:

I don't need the police to protect me, so I'm kind of indifferent.

Well that is a stupid statement. Unless you live where there are no police at all, they do protect you/ That is like saying you don't need the government to do anything for you, while driving down the road.
 
Police overestimate their importance to the protection of communities. They exaggerate the dangers of their jobs.

Furthermore when you actually do need police it takes them forever to show up because they were too busy pulling someone over for not wearing a seat-belt or showing up with 6 officers because some dude was selling cigarettes on the streets.

I don't agree. It's apparent some people underestimate the importance of police in protecting their communities. And there are those who just don't like them getting in the way of what they want to do.

There are sections of town where I live where crime is so rife, the police do not enter without backup. Do you think if they never entered those areas the crime would improve?
 
Seems like a standard paretian distribution to me...

(Paretian discributions are a common occurance when you are looking at performance metrics of this sort).
When it comes to quality policing, which in the USA has led to all of these civilian deaths, I'd really hope we're doing better than a 80/20 rule.
 
The phrase serve and protect might make sense for something like security guards, but with an enforcement force like the police it makes no sense at all. They serve to enforce the laws of the state, not to protect the people. If there is a police officer out there thinking they are protecting the people perhaps they can tell me why people are arrested for victimless crimes. Exactly how does that work towards protecting people?
 
just put cameras on all of them. that will do a lot to solve the problem, and will protect both the cop and the person being arrested. the solution here is obvious.

While I agree that using those body camera is a good step, it won't help with the feelings that the cops are just racist.
 
When it comes to quality policing, which in the USA has led to all of these civilian deaths, I'd really hope we're doing better than a 80/20 rule.

I don't want to even imagine the implications if it were normally distributed.
 
Police overestimate their importance to the protection of communities. They exaggerate the dangers of their jobs.

Furthermore when you actually do need police it takes them forever to show up because they were too busy pulling someone over for not wearing a seat-belt or showing up with 6 officers because some dude was selling cigarettes on the streets.

Tell that to those living in Chicago:

chicago_gang_violence_summit_infographic.jpg
 
Well that is a stupid statement. Unless you live where there are no police at all, they do protect you/ That is like saying you don't need the government to do anything for you, while driving down the road.

Any protection they might offer is by chance, not by design.
 
just put cameras on all of them. that will do a lot to solve the problem, and will protect both the cop and the person being arrested. the solution here is obvious.

Is Santa going to bring them all cameras for Christmas? The magical fairies going to pay for and authorize the system for every county in the US? You know the cops aren't federal, right?
 
Any protection they might offer is by chance, not by design.

Since they enforce laws designed to protect people, that is false. Further, their presence is a deterrent.
 
Since they enforce laws designed to protect people, that is false. Further, their presence is a deterrent.

What laws are on the books designed to protect people? Do understand the difference between protecting someone and punishing murders and rapists? I get the feeling you don't.
 
You shouldn't listen to people like Sharpton. You shouldn't listen to people like Bartley either.

Not being a black person I don't know what the average black person thinks "of some white cop coming into the neighborhood". Are you black? Do you live in a primarily black community? If you are and you do I have a few questions for you. If you aren't I wonder then how it is that you feel qualified to make the statements you make.

I'm white, but I have lived with in those neighborhoods with my mother for a time and then later on working at shelters in the area. I know police officers, some are assholes (especially younger ones) but most are okay. My brother has lived in that area most of his life and him and his friend has been stopped by cops plenty of times and questioned when their out walking. In these areas, it's not about being black or white, especially in the ones that a high in crime. But I have a black friend who walks to my place (different part of town) and he don't get stopped because the area is nicer. Hell he even wears a hoodie too.

Again, it's nothing about race, and Sharpton knows this. He won't say it mind you. But whatever.
 
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What laws are on the books designed to protect people? Do understand the difference between protecting someone and punishing murders and rapists? I get the feeling you don't.

I don't see how you can draw a difference between the two. If a cop is on patrol and I call him because someone just broke into my house (granted I'd probably deal with it myself and then call them), they are attempt to stop them from possibly murdering and/or raping me. So, yeah their protecting you.
 
What laws are on the books designed to protect people? Do understand the difference between protecting someone and punishing murders and rapists? I get the feeling you don't.

Do you understand the concept of deterrence? It is a big word, but not that complex...
 
Well that is a stupid statement. Unless you live where there are no police at all, they do protect you/ That is like saying you don't need the government to do anything for you, while driving down the road.


It was short and off the cuff, meant to be spikey and provocative; not meant to be a lengthy dissertation on the subject.


But I have plenty of the latter if they are wanted. We can start with the SCOTUS decision that police are not responsible for the safety of the citizenry.


Any rational person will look at that and realize they'd better make at least some provision for protecting their self.


Then, since Ferguson is on everyone's mind, let's look at how well police and government protected all those businesses that got robbed, looted and/or burned... um.... not so good; how embarrassing.


Do I benefit from the fact that there are police, courts and whatnot? Of course I do. I wouldn't want to live in anarchy, as we have innumerable examples of how that devolves quickly into warlordism and banditry.


However on a pragmatic, day-to-day basis my statement is true: I don't depend on the police to protect me, I depend on me and to a lesser extent on family and neighbors. In the rural area in which I live, 911 is mainly for clean-up and report writing after it is all over.



The plain FACT of the matter is, that it is very RARE for the police to get to ACTUALLY protect someone from direct attack. I know, I was in LE, and I treasure those few times I got to act in that role as gems that made all the rest of the crap worthwhile.


Most of the time, unless a threat is slow developing and called in early, you're on your own. When seconds matter, help is usually several minutes away at least.



I was annoyed by the statement in the OP quote that "People need the police to protect them." In a sense yes, we need an orderly society in order to have a functional society. The rule of law is preferable to the rule of unleashed force.



But frankly, the police need the support of the citizenry just as badly if not more so than the reverse. Policing is almost impossible in neighborhoods where nobody cooperates with the police... which is what makes so many neighborhoods in Chicago and Detroit places of extreme crime and violence.



If you want a peaceful neighborhood, the best place to start is with people being prepared to defend themselves and their homes against criminals; neighbors willing to watch out for each other and call 911 when they see criminal activity; and a police force people can trust and work with.


The worst places in America typically lack all three.
 
While I agree that using those body camera is a good step, it won't help with the feelings that the cops are just racist.

that will matter a lot less if everything is documented.
 
Is Santa going to bring them all cameras for Christmas? The magical fairies going to pay for and authorize the system for every county in the US? You know the cops aren't federal, right?

it needs to be mandated federally and paid for with taxes. has to be done. my guess is that it's inevitable now.
 
I refer you to my above post, especially my last statement.

I've always been an advocate of getting the community more involved with some sort of neighborhood watch program that was designed to work in conjunction with the local citizens in giving them the equipment and training to defend their homes. Especially in Chicago where to get this under control, you have to have the community work with you. I'd actually be curious to hear what Chicago Blacks think of the police force there.
 
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