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US chimpanzee Tommy 'has no human rights' - court

twixie1 said:
Is it because this chimp wears cute clothes and is humanized..

You obviously don't know a lot about chimps..they have 4 times the strength of the average human male..they can rip your arm off and beat you to death with the sticky ends..

In the wild..chimps go hunting in groups..often targetting other simian species..they are very organised..and when they catch their meal it is ripped apart live by the group..

They are wild animals, and should be treated with respect for their advanced IQ...

But human rights?...Really??
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No rights. By Deinition Human rights can only apply to Humans. I think men should have rights but womens rights deal with only things applicable to women only. Human rioghts should only apply to those things that only CAN apply to humans. Most human rights should be applied to Chimps but not all.

personally I don;t like chimps. for the same reasons that I do like Bonobos. I think Chimps exhibit the worst qualities of primates. they still deserve rights.
 
Papa bull said:
Chimps kill each other. When are we going to set up chimpanzee prisons to incarcerate the perpetrators of chimpanzee murders in defense of their rights?
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Plenty of Chimps are kept in prisons. We call them Zoos
 
ataturk said:
Plenty of Chimps are kept in prisons. We call them Zoos
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Have the chimps organize and file a writ then to the court for cruel and inhuman.... errr... cruel and inprimate conditions. I'm sure the chimps can get someone through the bar exam and licensed to petition the court on their behalf.
 
ataturk said:
No rights. By Deinition Human rights can only apply to Humans. I think men should have rights but womens rights deal with only things applicable to women only. Human rioghts should only apply to those things that only CAN apply to humans. Most human rights should be applied to Chimps but not all.

personally I don;t like chimps. for the same reasons that I do like Bonobos. I think Chimps exhibit the worst qualities of primates. they still deserve rights.
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Yes they do..Animal rights...
 
Papa bull said:
What rights do you think animals have?

And what animals have those rights?
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Many of today's animals do not have any rights....

In rare cases, certain species, such as dogs and cats, are given legal protection.

This only proves severe discrimination when it comes to animal rights.

Species are not considered to have equal values.

Humans cherish only the abilities which can help or suit people in certain ways.

Cats are gentle, dogs are loyal, dolphins are friendly for example...
 
twixie1 said:
Many of today's animals do not have any rights....

In rare cases, certain species, such as dogs and cats, are given legal protection.

This only proves severe discrimination when it comes to animal rights.

Species are not considered to have equal values.

Humans cherish only the abilities which can help or suit people in certain ways.

Cats are gentle, dogs are loyal, dolphins are friendly for example...
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Thank you for posting that rhetoric, but how about answering the questions?

What rights do you think animals have? (or should have)

And what animals have those rights? (or should have)
 
Papa bull said:
Thank you for posting that rhetoric, but how about answering the questions?

What rights do you think animals have? (or should have)

And what animals have those rights? (or should have)
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I think that all animals should be treated with kindness..respect..and humanity..

Even the ones in our food chain...
 
Papa bull said:
What rights do you think animals have?
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The right not to be tortured, for example.

Papa bull said:
And what animals have those rights?
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Those which are sentient - ie, have the brain structures that produce the experience of pain (and the experience of not wanting to experience pain). Those that have the capacity to be tortured. Determining exactly which animals meet that criteria is not simple, though. But great apes almost certainly fall into that category.
 
twixie1 said:
I think that all animals should be treated with kindness..respect..and humanity..

Even the ones in our food chain...
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I agree that no animal should be mistreated even if it's being raised to be slain and eaten, but that's not really a "right". That's just humans insisting that other humans live up to standards we set for our own conduct.
 
Papa bull said:
I agree that no animal should be mistreated even if it's being raised to be slain and eaten, but that's not really a "right". That's just humans insisting that other humans live up to standards we set for our own conduct.
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I don't think we need ''rules'' here..If you are a ''normal'' human being..you would not want to make animals suffer..inside you must know it is wrong...animals raised for food..must be dispatched in the quickest and most humane method possible..
 
twixie1 said:
I don't think we need ''rules'' here..If you are a ''normal'' human being..you would not want to make animals suffer..inside you must know it is wrong...animals raised for food..must be dispatched in the quickest and most humane method possible..
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We need "rules" if you want to give animals "rights". I already agreed with you that we, as humans, owe it to ourselves to be decent to animals. We don't have to be but it reflects badly on us so we set our own standards of conduct to reflect our own values. Rights are a different sort of thing. Rights have to be enforceable and that means that they must be clearly enumerated.
 
Papa bull said:
We need "rules" if you want to give animals "rights". I already agreed with you that we, as humans, owe it to ourselves to be decent to animals. We don't have to be but it reflects badly on us so we set our own standards of conduct to reflect our own values. Rights are a different sort of thing. Rights have to be enforceable and that means that they must be clearly enumerated.
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Do you really need a piece of paper??

To know it's wrong to make any animals suffer unnecessarily..so then you can kick a sheep around a field..make it suffer when you slaughter it..because ''sheep'' were not
''clearly enumerated''??
 
twixie1 said:
Do you really need a piece of paper??

To know it's wrong to make any animals suffer unnecessarily..so then you can kick a sheep around a field..make it suffer when you slaughter it..because ''sheep'' were not
''clearly enumerated''??
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Whatever. You were the one that mentioned animal rights. I just wanted to see if you would expound on what they were and what animals they applied to. Apparently you don't.
 
Papa bull said:
Whatever. You were the one that mentioned animal rights. I just wanted to see if you would expound on what they were and what animals they applied to. Apparently you don't.
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No sorry Papa Bull..I don't have a list..I may just have to leave it down to your morals..
 
molten_dragon said:
From the article:



By that logic, you could make the argument that a chimp is more capable of those things than a fetus is.
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No you could not.

An unborn child will be able to fill those roles when maturity is gained. The chimp can never gain the ability to fill those roles.

Chimps are not human, babies - even unborn, are.
 
Cruelty is cruelty. Being human doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel and inhumane to animals. If Joey is being mistreated they should have just filed cruelty charges and try to get him transferred to a more accommodating facility rather than try to give him personhood rights. That's just nonsense.
 
Uncensored2008 said:
No you could not.

An unborn child will be able to fill those roles when maturity is gained. The chimp can never gain the ability to fill those roles.

Chimps are not human, babies - even unborn, are.
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Yeah, but the court judgment didn't mention the ability to fill those roles in the future, only whether the creature in question can fill them now.
 
sangha said:
This case raises the question of what it is that imbues humans with rights. Just today, a right winger explained that our natural rights (which I don't believe in BTW) are a result of our ability to think, hope, aspire, etc. If an animal is capable of those same things, then wouldn't it too have natural rights?
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That is exactly what this case is about. The great apes are capable of reasoned thought, complex perception, and complex emotions. I think those qualities entitle them to "natural" rights recognized by humans.
 
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Napoleon said:
That is exactly what this case is about. The great apes are capable of reasoned thought, complex perception, and complex emotions. I think they do have natural rights.
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There are two issues:

1. Science has not yet proven what you believe.
2. The apes have not developed or humans are incapable of communicating effectively advanced reasoning, perception and emotion such that both can understand each other.

Until both of those issues are solved, an animal is an animal and a human is a human.
 
Ockham said:
1. Science has not yet proven what you believe.
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Scientific observation has proven it time and time again.

Ockham said:
2. The apes have not developed or humans are incapable of communicating effectively advanced reasoning, perception and emotion such that both can understand each other.
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I don't understand French. Does that mean I can keep a French human locked in a cage as a pet for my own amusement?

Ockham said:
Until both of those issues are solved, an animal is an animal and a human is a human.
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Humans are animals.
 
Napoleon said:
I don't understand French. Does that mean I can keep a French human locked in a cage as a pet for my own amusement?
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Aside from being right about that, the fact is that a number of species of animals, including non-primates, are capable of communicating with humans. For example, my dog is able to communicate a wide variety of things such as when she needs to be walked, when she wants food, water, affection, etc. Primates (and other species) are capable of a great deal more.
 
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