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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There happens to be a real problem with untaxed cigarettes in NYC. Garner wasn't the only one selling them. Business owners are arrested for selling them too. The huge number of untaxed cigarettes they confiscate are then auctioned off to bidders after they have received the proper state stamp. Last I read close to 50% of all cigarettes being consumed in NYC are untaxed. That's what happens when people allow their legislatures to tax the heck out of something they don't approve the use of personally. It turns people into smugglers. It turned John Hancock into a smuggler over taxes.

New harsher laws/penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes went into effect this year in NYC thanks to Mayor Bloomberg. Instead of issuing a citation like a traffic violation, cops in NYC have to treat selling untaxed cigarettes (loosies) with an arrest. Just days before Garner's death the cops had got their marching orders from the higher ups to "crackdown" on the sell of "loosies". It's a crying shame a cop has been put into that position but it wasn't of his making.

It was business owners calling the police telling them of Garner's activities that led them to put him under surveillance. And he was arrested multiple times in possession of cigarettes that were untaxed.

As far as arrest goes, the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the US Justice Department, the continuum is a set of policies that “describes an escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation.”

“Pain Compliance” is a stage along the continuum.

What the jury was instructed to do is determine if the NYPD officer's hold on Garner was an accepted “Pain Compliance technique”. The next step would have been to Taser along the "Use of Force Continuum" if the first wasn't successful. Experts in the field of law enforcement called what the officer did to be within guidelines. Obviously the Grand Jury agreed with them.

It's unfortunate that NYC cops have been put into a position to shakedown people over untaxed cigarettes.
It's unfortunate Garner resisted arrest. He had a long rap sheet and had he lived he was facing jail time again in October. Maybe that had to do with him not submitting to the arrest.
It's unfortunate that the leadership of this country including the top cop Holder to the President to the mayor of NYC are using this incident to be about racism when it was store owners who were predominantly black, where Garner would set up his business of selling his cigarettes that reported his activities. The police officers on the scene including their lieutenant, is a black female. Her superior, the Chief of Police is also black.

Can you link to Holder and/or Obama saying what you claim they are re: Garner?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Last I read close to 50% of all cigarettes being consumed in NYC are untaxed.
The source for that, such as it is, is a conservative anti-tax organization, which in turn cites a study put out by a think tank partly funded by the tobacco industry. Apparently there's a lot of estimation, and very little actual research.


New harsher laws/penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes went into effect this year in NYC thanks to Mayor Bloomberg. Instead of issuing a citation like a traffic violation, cops in NYC have to treat selling untaxed cigarettes (loosies) with an arrest.
Yet again: Blaming this outcome on cigarette taxes is absurd.

The NYPD use significant levels of force to arrest people for all sorts of minor infractions. As I've posted multiple times already in this thread, here's a video of an NYPD officer striking 20 year old Donovan Lawson with a baton, with 2 other officers joining to detain him. Donovan's criminal act? Jumping a subway turnstile, instead of paying the $2.50 fare. Even if you think the level of force was appropriate, this clearly demonstrates that there is no real connection between the actual nature of the infraction, and the level of force used by the NYPD during the arrest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVoOQbDT1QE


As far as arrest goes, the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the US Justice Department, the continuum is a set of policies that “describes an escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation.”

“Pain Compliance” is a stage along the continuum.
Are choke holds allowed? Because they're banned by the NYPD.


It's unfortunate that NYC cops have been put into a position to shakedown people over untaxed cigarettes.
It's unfortunate Garner resisted arrest. He had a long rap sheet and had he lived he was facing jail time again in October. Maybe that had to do with him not submitting to the arrest.
It's unfortunate that the leadership of this country including the top cop Holder to the President to the mayor of NYC are using this incident to be about racism....
It's disgusting that conservatives are trying to blame this on, of all things, cigarette taxes.

It's repulsive that some people are apparently just fine with minimal review of police officers who cause the deaths of suspects in their custody.

It's astounding that some people will go to any lengths to avoid any discussion of race in the issues of police and community relations.

It's unfortunate that some people use this incident to indulge in their routine bashing of specific political figures. Many of whom just happen to be black. Hmmmm.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It wasn't real violent in the one video, but the evidence is clearly there that he was resisting arrest.
Got a question. When someone is still speaking saying "I can't breathe"....isn't that a sure sign that they are indeed breathing?
He said it around 11 times. And yes...he was still breathing. However...a heart attack would feel pretty similar.

Its funny watching all the people here but I DO think there is a lesson learned. In the future, If someone decides they want to be a criminal be it selling untaxed cigarette or any of the other 30 charges Brown ahs face or the 27 his buddy the camerman has faced or hell...bank robbery or whatever....just pig out for a few years and become morbidly obese and when the cops come to arrest you, just say "Leave me alone! I told you last time, just leave me alone! I dont wanna be arrested." And the cops will say...well...OK...and walk away. And if they insist, tell them, "look...Im so fat if you try to arrest me I will have a heart attack and die, right here on the spot." THAT should do it.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

I like how the same people who were cheering the idea of Cliven Bundy having a shootout with federal agents are now making the argument that Eric Garner should meekly accept several police officers attacking him without provocation, and that truthfully pointing out that they had no grounds to stop him or arrest him is apparently sufficient cause to kill him. The message I see is "hate federal cops, but always submit to local cops, and white rural people standing up for themselves when they do something illegal but contest the validity of the actions the government is taking against them is perfectly legitimate, but when an urban black does it, it's fine to kill him."

Seriously, we saw it on video. The cops came up to him, and he was doing nothing illegal. He, completely within his rights, said he didn't want to talk to them, and they illegally chose to arrest him and then killed him in the process. What the hell does it take to punish criminals in uniform!?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you have a mainstream source, Kemosabe? Something a bit more well known then "Vice". In my neck of the woods, tobacco products are heisted all the time. If they are not recovered, they end up being sold on the street by brain dead twits like Garner. Not that it matters.....stolen or smuggled. It's still a crime.

What, what decade were you born in? Vice is pretty well known amongst documentary filmmakers...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Can you link to Holder and/or Obama saying what you claim they are re: Garner?
Kobie, there are countless videos of speeches and press releases on both that imply white racism . But the latest action on behalf of the President is what he did after de Blasio threw his police department under the bus, implying they were racist and untrustworthy. Obama called and commended him for his words.

Eric Garner case: Obama commends NYC Mayor Bill De Blasio for nonviolent protests - Washington Times

di Blasio was part of the pow wow that occurred at the WH on Monday along with Holder, Obama, and Al Sharpton (with his many visits to the WH has apparently become Obama's advisor on race).

Whether it is in speeches, interviews etc. these men claim such an animus of wrong doing on behalf of law enforcement. But there is no proof of their claims. Ask yourself, how many times has Eric Holder ordered countless investigations on civil rights abuses against people of color over the past years? Where's the beef to his accusations? Where are the findings that prove this animus they keep repeating?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

He said it around 11 times. And yes...he was still breathing. However...a heart attack would feel pretty similar.

Its funny watching all the people here but I DO think there is a lesson learned. In the future, If someone decides they want to be a criminal be it selling untaxed cigarette or any of the other 30 charges Brown ahs face or the 27 his buddy the camerman has faced or hell...bank robbery or whatever....just pig out for a few years and become morbidly obese and when the cops come to arrest you, just say "Leave me alone! I told you last time, just leave me alone! I dont wanna be arrested." And the cops will say...well...OK...and walk away. And if they insist, tell them, "look...Im so fat if you try to arrest me I will have a heart attack and die, right here on the spot." THAT should do it.

Still making it up as you go?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Kobie, there are countless videos of speeches and press releases on both that imply white racism . But the latest action on behalf of the President is what he did after de Blasio threw his police department under the bus, implying they were racist and untrustworthy. Obama called and commended him for his words.

Eric Garner case: Obama commends NYC Mayor Bill De Blasio for nonviolent protests - Washington Times

di Blasio was part of the pow wow that occurred at the WH on Monday along with Holder, Obama, and Al Sharpton (with his many visits to the WH has apparently become Obama's advisor on race).

Whether it is in speeches, interviews etc. these men claim such an animus of wrong doing on behalf of law enforcement. But there is no proof of their claims. Ask yourself, how many times has Eric Holder ordered countless investigations on civil rights abuses against people of color over the past years? Where's the beef to his accusations? Where are the findings that prove this animus they keep repeating?

Eh... so Obama thanking DeBlasio for keeping the protests non-violent means he's thanking him for... implying white racism? You really are trying to play the victim card aren't you?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I didn't say anything about a "collapsed windpipe." Again: You asked, and I quote: "The ME said the police killed him? Link?"

The media reported the ME's opinion on August 1st. After this much commentary on the topic, there's no excuse for not knowing this critical element.

Do you even know what happens when someone chokes to death?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Still can't see why they were harassing this guy.


The store manager/owner called in a complaint, asking that the guy be made to stop selling illegal cigarettes in front of the store. You know as well as I do that the cops can't just ignore that.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Eh... so Obama thanking DeBlasio for keeping the protests non-violent means he's thanking him for... implying white racism? You really are trying to play the victim card aren't you?
What did you read, the first paragraph? You would have to know what di Blasio stated in his speech that outraged police officers and their union leaders who felt betrayed to see the significance in Obama's words.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064061492 said:
Can't wait for someone to defend this. :usflag2:

Sadly the chief kinda has a point though. Its lame she got arrested. But the trust is soooo bad with cops that I am also thankful it wasnt rape or they didnt decide to stripsearch and finger the girl. Kudos to him for pointing out that there are scumbag cops out there. Its prolly just a petty attempt to deflect attention but hopefully this means his department is clean enough that hes actually being truthful lol. That he really is thankful that this is the extent of their abuse and overreach on authority. Its sad when police are so untrusted that it feels relieving to pick your poison instead of something healthy.

Its sad that most people dont realize you can state your name and date of birth and that counts as identifying yourself. But cops love to play word games and wont point this out. They love for you to assume you HAVE to have I.D. card or you may be taken in.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

What did you read, the first paragraph? You would have to know what di Blasio stated in his speech that outraged police officers and their union leaders who felt betrayed to see the significance in Obama's words.

Yes and the police are just angry that somebody is pointing out that black people sometimes distrust them. Good grief, if that is all it takes to make white folks like you feel "racism" you're more sensitive than Al Sharpton.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you even know what happens when someone chokes to death?
Yet again:

I didn't say anything about a "collapsed windpipe."

You asked, and I quote: "The ME said the police killed him? Link?" I've provided you with numerous links. Here is yet another one:
Police choke hold killed NY man, medical examiner says - CNN.com

The media reported the ME's opinion on August 1st. After this much commentary on the topic, there's no excuse for not knowing this critical element.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Kobie, there are countless videos of speeches and press releases on both that imply white racism . But the latest action on behalf of the President is what he did after de Blasio threw his police department under the bus, implying they were racist and untrustworthy. Obama called and commended him for his words.

Eric Garner case: Obama commends NYC Mayor Bill De Blasio for nonviolent protests - Washington Times

di Blasio was part of the pow wow that occurred at the WH on Monday along with Holder, Obama, and Al Sharpton (with his many visits to the WH has apparently become Obama's advisor on race).

Whether it is in speeches, interviews etc. these men claim such an animus of wrong doing on behalf of law enforcement. But there is no proof of their claims. Ask yourself, how many times has Eric Holder ordered countless investigations on civil rights abuses against people of color over the past years? Where's the beef to his accusations? Where are the findings that prove this animus they keep repeating?

If there's countless speeches of Obama blaming the Garner case on racism, it shouldn't be hard to link to one of them, now, should it? You've fallen woefully short of that challenge so far.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yet again:

I didn't say anything about a "collapsed windpipe."

You asked, and I quote: "The ME said the police killed him? Link?" I've provided you with numerous links. Here is yet another one:
Police choke hold killed NY man, medical examiner says - CNN.com

The media reported the ME's opinion on August 1st. After this much commentary on the topic, there's no excuse for not knowing this critical element.

If the windpipe wasn't collapsed, he didn't choke to death.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Still making it up as you go?
Let the video speak for itself and the scenario speak for itself.

Say...you dont suppose that the fact that the cops involved KNEW Mr Garner (as Mr Garner stated) and knew that he had an arrest history including assault and resisting arrest (contrary to the assertion he wouldnt never hurt no one) influenced their decision to not just let him walk away cuz he wanted to be left alone, do you?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There happens to be a real problem with untaxed cigarettes in NYC.

Well that huge governmental crisis is now apparently solved as once people realize the death penalty is now given for selling loose cigarettes - the day of perfection has arrived for all in the Big Apple.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Sadly the chief kinda has a point though. Its lame she got arrested. But the trust is soooo bad with cops that I am also thankful it wasnt rape or they didnt decide to stripsearch and finger the girl. Kudos to him for pointing out that there are scumbag cops out there. Its prolly just a petty attempt to deflect attention but hopefully this means his department is clean enough that hes actually being truthful lol. That he really is thankful that this is the extent of their abuse and overreach on authority. Its sad when police are so untrusted that it feels relieving to pick your poison instead of something healthy.

Its sad that most people dont realize you can state your name and date of birth and that counts as identifying yourself. But cops love to play word games and wont point this out. They love for you to assume you HAVE to have I.D. card or you may be taken in.

Wonder why the news didnt show the audio on the jaywalking jogger lady arrest though. If I remember right she was screaming for help. Claiming she was being abducted. And screaming she was being kidnapped or something to that affect.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I doubt very much that you'll see anything close to what happened in Ferguson. New Yorkers make a lot of noise but, as a rule, they're not into wrecking their neighborhood.

Uh, Crown Heights riots?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If there's countless speeches of Obama blaming the Garner case on racism, it shouldn't be hard to link to one of them, now, should it? You've fallen woefully short of that challenge so far.
I just gave you an example how Obama is making this case about racism. As did di Blasio in his speech. As has Al Sharpton who continues to do whether at rallies/protests, on his TV show or radio broadcast. And you need no further proof than Holder's comments on ordering a federal investigation into the Grand Jury Holder needs to make it about racism for a federal investigation..... there has to be a violation of civil rights, which implies that this was a racial incident. Now count all the federal investigations into law enforcement that Holder has ordered over the years and show me all his findings that there is this huge race problem of blacks being treated unfairly.

This stinks to high heaven.

A white cop kills a black man due to illegal activity.
Race baiting ambulance chasers head to the scene and start making claims of racial profiling and wrongdoing by cops.
Then all those community organizer types from special interests show up on the scene as professional instigators to throw fire on the flames the race baiters ignited.
Then you have the leader of the country flaming the fires with his comments while the biggest race baiter in the country seems to be his new race advisor considering the number of visits Sharpton has made to the WH.
Followed with the top cop Holder making claims of civil rights violations brought on by racism by ordering a federal investigation.
 
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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903]

I just gave you an example how Obama is making this case about racism. As did di Blasio in his speech. As has Al Sharpton who continues to do whether at rallies/protests, on his TV show or radio broadcast. And you need no further proof than Holder's comments on ordering a federal investigation into the Grand Jury Holder needs to make it about racism for a federal investigation..... there has to be a violation of civil rights, which implies that this was a racial incident. Now count all the federal investigation into law enforcement that Holder has ordered and show me all his findings that there is this huge race problem of blacks being treated unfairly.

This stinks to high heaven.

A white cop kills a black man due to illegal activity.
Race baiting ambulance chasers head to the scene and start making claims of racial profiling and wrongdoing by cops.
Then all those community organizer types from special interests show up on the scene as professional instigators to throw fire on the flames the race baiters ignited.
Then you have the leader of the county flaming the fires with his comments while the biggest race baiter in the country seems to be his new race advisor considering the number of visits Sharpton has made to the WH.
Followed with the top cop Holder making claims of racism by ordering a federal investigation.

Incessantly repeating this claim doesn't make it any less wrong.

Since when were civil rights violations strictly a racial issue?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903]

Incessantly repeating this claim doesn't make it any less wrong.

Since when were civil rights violations strictly a racial issue?
It certainly becomes a factor when a white cop kills a black man. Geesh
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Let the video speak for itself and the scenario speak for itself.

Ah, so he said that? :)

Say...you dont suppose that the fact that the cops involved KNEW Mr Garner (as Mr Garner stated) and knew that he had an arrest history including assault and resisting arrest (contrary to the assertion he wouldnt never hurt no one) influenced their decision to not just let him walk away cuz he wanted to be left alone, do you?

Do you believe the Pantalano's history of harassing suspects led to him not wanting to let Garner go? ;)
 
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