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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Is that supposed to be witty?

The problem in the USA is the 0-tolerance fiasco that's been going on for some time now.
You see in the news about your schools where a kid playing with a toy gun (from a toy) gets detention and is treated like a criminal and has to sign a document attesting that he understands the difference between a toy and a gun. It's insane.
Anyway, I'm assuming that such a mentality is pervasive in many police stations.

0 tolerance makes thinking obsolete because everything is treated as either one thing or another.

The USA has a problem with this 0 tolerance in general and it's spilling over into europe. 0 tolerance in this and that, and many areas of life. And this mentality is because of perverse and pervasive leftist thinking, aka "progressives". they're the ones who push this sort of mentality.



Sorry, but I don't believe that is true!
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yes, I think it plays a role in that. It's obviously, not the only variable, but it is a variable.
Mathematically it would be like r = x1 + x2 + x3 + x4 + ... + xn
r being the end result of this police culture, well, this 0 tolerance prevalence in the USA is one of those x's.

And 0 tolerance policies are the trademark of leftist, so-called "progressive" mindset and people who subscribe to it. And they've pushed this cultural norm in areas of life where it shouldn't be the cultural norm and it has now made its way into the police force, well, at least some of it. It's already the norm in many schools and especially, "academia" which is dominated by morons, I mean, progressive professors. The generation you raise is the people you have and the people in a country define that country.



As I said above, I think it has to do with the 0-tolerance culture norm that seems to be prevalent in america and gradually, in the rest of the world too. see comment 908 for more.



Stop saying that. All Progressives do not believe in zero tolerance policies. I don't!
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Compression of his chest and neck--blood was getting to his brain but not getting out rupturing vessels in his brain. I believe that is what it said.

It has been posted a number of times what a chokehold does physiologically.

There are a few ways of assaulting someone else that are very incapacitating that are known to poise a danger of causing death. Two involve the neck.

One is slugging someone in the throat. Usually this won't kill the person but sometimes it will. If it collapses the person's throat - or causes it to swell shut - the person will die - unless someone knows what to do right away to cut an airway.

A chockhold usually won't kill a person unless that is the goal, and sometimes will whether this is the goal or not. Chockholds used to be a way to kill someone making it look like natural causes - specifically a heart attack - as a chockhold is an attack against the person's brain AND against the person's heart.

Here (again) is how a chockhold works - and how it killed Mr. Garner - as certain to happen as if that officer had stuck a taser into the center of his heart. The brain requires more oxygen for its size and more continuous oxygen than any other human organ. A chockhold significantly reduces the flow of blood to the brain. In response, to protect itself, the brain rapidly and increasingly shuts down the rest of the body to save the brain. This included the heart and lungs, not just muscles.

The officer not only had a chockhold on Mr. Garner, but also his weight on Mr. Garner's back for which breathing then required Mr. Garner to lift his body and the officer's body to breathe, while his brain was shutting down Mr. Garner's lungs and heart (which pumps the oxygen throughout the body). That is what was happening when Mr. Garner said "I can't breathe. I can't breathe."

His brain - for the lack of oxygen - was increasingly shutting down his muscles (required for breathing with more than a couple hundred extra pounds to life), increasingly cutting down the his lung muscles, and dramatically cutting down his heart rate - which future cut the supply of oxygen to his brain and whole body.

At that point, hearing this, the officer released his hold. That release was the same as had the officer run a tazer thru Mr. Garner's back straight into the center of his heart. With Mr. Garner's brain and entire body oxygen depleted - plus still all the weight of his body and of that officer still already making breathing difficult, plus his muscles not fully revived also making breathing possible, the brain threw Mr. Garner's heart rate and blood pressure off the charts - causing a heart attack. It was at that moment Mr. Garner was dying of a heart attack, ie his heart stopped from the radical sudden increase in effort and blood pressure.

It is likely he could have been saved by ordinary methods of addressing that manner of heart attack - to do CPR to keep so blood flowing while his heart muscle could lose it's essentially "charley horse" (anyone who has had a muscle freeze up like a rock with a charley horse knows what I mean - and also know the muscle will relax.

But the police didn't do CPR and the EMTs did nothing. In short, they all just let Mr. Garner die.

If this had been a gang attack? Police may have come to his aid when he was under attack. Other people may have. Police, EMTs or other people may have done CPR. Instead, a punk maverick officer with a history of abusing African-Americans did a deadly chockhold adding his body weight to it - and then the police and EMT just stood there watching Mr. Garner die - for which because of the police no one else dare try to save him.

That's what killed Mr. Garner.

I do understand our arm chair couch potato forum warriors declare that someone like them with the physical fitness of a 20 year old dual state champion in wrestling and long distance running, plus their all being champion body builders blame Mr. Garner's health issues for his lack of their physical perfection. But I also understand that with this they also throw in their tacit racism posting about fried chicken, gravel and cheeseburgers. If Mr. Garner was Latino, it would tacos and burritos. All their blaming the victim for their own death, like they would blame rape on the victim, claim abused children bring it on themselves, and hope old people die off to spare money from the SS system.

Anyway, that is what killed Mr. Garner. A deathly chockhold move enhanced by the officer adding his body weight to the attack against Mr. Garner's heart - as that is what a chockhold is.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I have posted numours links that back my claim. de Blasio needs the revenue cigarettes bring in. Its a fact easily googled that those who smoke in NY especically in NYC because they add additional taxes per pack is purchasing their cigs through black market, what's that doing to de Blasio's budget?

Oh I don't dispute the Mayor and higher ups wanted a crack down on the likely hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers who were not paying $12 for a pack of cigarettes. Buying them on the street. Buying them in neighboring states. Have relatives mail them. Bringing them in when they travel.

And of course, the poor people who can't afford the $12 so buy a couple of cigarettes at a time. It is easy for the police to then focus on those poor people, isn't it?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you think the NYPD is also searching business people's bags coming into the airports - something done as easily as the scanners they already use for baggage? Or focus on trying to catch can't-afford-any-defense and no-influence-or-political-power folks on the street? One of those "go round up the usual suspects" to fake-show they are doing something - when there isn't a damn thing the police can do about people buying black market cigarettes.

They can't stop felony drug sales. How are they going to stop people bringing in cheaper cartons of cigarettes?

Do your SERIOUSLY believe that guys like him are the major source of cigarette taxes not being paid?

Curious no cigarettes he supposed had to sell were ever shown, were they? I guess that has to be secret too?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Sorry, but I don't believe that is true!

What you believe is irrelevant. You are just a meaningless person and the progressives who are in positions of authority are doing propaganda and indoctrination and causing all these problems.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you think the NYPD is also searching business people's bags coming into the airports - something done as easily as the scanners they already use for baggage? Or focus on trying to catch can't-afford-any-defense and no-influence-or-political-power folks on the street? One of those "go round up the usual suspects" to fake-show they are doing something - when there isn't a damn thing the police can do about people buying black market cigarettes.

They can't stop felony drug sales. How are they going to stop people bringing in cheaper cartons of cigarettes?

Do your SERIOUSLY believe that guys like him are the major source of cigarette taxes not being paid?

Curious no cigarettes he supposed had to sell were ever shown, were they? I guess that has to be secret too?

They could not show the public the cigarettes Garner was supposedly selling because showing them might compromise National Security. ;)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Really? You don't think that most just buy them for half the NYC price in a lower taxed state (or at a military store) and double their money?

Even that is a crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Another great question would be: how many people died from being forced to the ground, recently?

Tasers have killed more people than dang-gone "chokeholds".

Clogged arteries have killed more.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It wasn't real violent in the one video, but the evidence is clearly there that he was resisting arrest.
Got a question. When someone is still speaking saying "I can't breathe"....isn't that a sure sign that they are indeed breathing?

Especially when they say it five times or more as Garner did.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

They did call for medical right away, and they are not equipped to give mouth to mouth, not to mention CPR isn't always indicated and would have actually been harmful here. He was still breathing.

Exactly. He died in the ambulance....not on the ground during the so-called choke hold.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

How much more harm is CPR going to give a guy without a pulse?

At what point did he not have a pulse? He died in the ambulance.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

At what point did he not have a pulse? He died in the ambulance.

I have yet to see a coroners report or an ambulance report that states that definitively. Can you link the ambulance report please?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You got a source for that, chief? As I have it, most of those cigarettes are smuggled in from low tax states surrounding New York. Actually, here is the account from one guy who does it for a living:

How Illegal Cigarettes Get Smuggled and Sold in New York City | VICE | United States





Keep making it up as you go though guys. ;) That's been failing just fine all thread long.

Do you have a mainstream source, Kemosabe? Something a bit more well known then "Vice". In my neck of the woods, tobacco products are heisted all the time. If they are not recovered, they end up being sold on the street by brain dead twits like Garner. Not that it matters.....stolen or smuggled. It's still a crime.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Obama is granting his attention to Al Sharpton and calling him in to the WH for meetings. Obama's actions have been repulsive.

Having Al Sharpton to meetings in the White House, sitting next to the Vice President and across from the president is quite beneath the dignity of the office. Sharpton is a thuggish race hustler who should be in jail for inciting riots and cheating on his federal income taxes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

....we don't often see 5 NYPD officers used to make an arrest for it. ;)

IIRC, It takes Four in Texas....



:doh
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The cop that arrested Garner was following what the Chief of Police told him to do and that is crack down on those selling black market cigarettes. The cop got his orders from the Chief of Police. The Chief of Police got his orders from the Police Commissioner. The Police Commissioner got his order from Mayor de Balsio.

Homicide is a bit of a stretch for a crack down, don't you think?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Read my response to ReverendHellh0und. No one was going for a rear naked choke.



Not a rear naked, a no-gi lapel choke where the under hook acts as the "lapel" for leverage. at best a modified rear naked if you must. but it's basic jits 101 applied horribly wrong.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The cop that arrested Garner was following what the Chief of Police told him to do and that is crack down on those selling black market cigarettes. The cop got his orders from the Chief of Police. The Chief of Police got his orders from the Police Commissioner. The Police Commissioner got his order from Mayor de Balsio.

And the Mayor was the first to throw the Police under the bus.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064061492 said:
Can't wait for someone to defend this. :usflag2:

That jaywalking thug got what she deserved!





:2razz:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you think the NYPD is also searching business people's bags coming into the airports - something done as easily as the scanners they already use for baggage? Or focus on trying to catch can't-afford-any-defense and no-influence-or-political-power folks on the street? One of those "go round up the usual suspects" to fake-show they are doing something - when there isn't a damn thing the police can do about people buying black market cigarettes.

They can't stop felony drug sales. How are they going to stop people bringing in cheaper cartons of cigarettes?

Do your SERIOUSLY believe that guys like him are the major source of cigarette taxes not being paid?

Curious no cigarettes he supposed had to sell were ever shown, were they? I guess that has to be secret too?

There happens to be a real problem with untaxed cigarettes in NYC. Garner wasn't the only one selling them. Business owners are arrested for selling them too. The huge number of untaxed cigarettes they confiscate are then auctioned off to bidders after they have received the proper state stamp. Last I read close to 50% of all cigarettes being consumed in NYC are untaxed. That's what happens when people allow their legislatures to tax the heck out of something they don't approve the use of personally. It turns people into smugglers. It turned John Hancock into a smuggler over taxes.

New harsher laws/penalties for selling untaxed cigarettes went into effect this year in NYC thanks to Mayor Bloomberg. Instead of issuing a citation like a traffic violation, cops in NYC have to treat selling untaxed cigarettes (loosies) with an arrest. Just days before Garner's death the cops had got their marching orders from the higher ups to "crackdown" on the sell of "loosies". It's a crying shame a cop has been put into that position but it wasn't of his making.

It was business owners calling the police telling them of Garner's activities that led them to put him under surveillance. And he was arrested multiple times in possession of cigarettes that were untaxed.

As far as arrest goes, the National Institute of Justice, the research arm of the US Justice Department, the continuum is a set of policies that “describes an escalating series of actions an officer may take to resolve a situation.”

“Pain Compliance” is a stage along the continuum.

What the jury was instructed to do is determine if the NYPD officer's hold on Garner was an accepted “Pain Compliance technique”. The next step would have been to Taser along the "Use of Force Continuum" if the first wasn't successful. Experts in the field of law enforcement called what the officer did to be within guidelines. Obviously the Grand Jury agreed with them.

It's unfortunate that NYC cops have been put into a position to shakedown people over untaxed cigarettes.
It's unfortunate Garner resisted arrest. He had a long rap sheet and had he lived he was facing jail time again in October. Maybe that had to do with him not submitting to the arrest.
It's unfortunate that the leadership of this country including the top cop Holder to the President to the mayor of NYC are using this incident to be about racism when it was store owners who were predominantly black, where Garner would set up his business of selling his cigarettes that reported his activities. The police officers on the scene including their lieutenant, is a black female. Her superior, the Chief of Police is also black.
 
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