No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:

Hundreds of times now the police worshippers have falsely claimed Mr. Garner was being arrested - and that he resisted that arrest.

The officer who did the chokehold himself stated his actions were to "detain" Garner to held for questioning.

But never mind the truth, just keep posting FALSELY that he was "resisting arrest" and then rant and lecture about the known false declaration.

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No you are mistaken. The undercover officer caught Garner selling loosies, something the Chief of Police passed down to the precincts just days prior to crack down on. On his patrol he was observing drug activity as well as untaxed cigarettes because almost all of the cigarettes consumed in NY these days are black market due to the high taxes. When an undercover cop sees an illegal act he radios in the activity. Think about it, why would an undercover cop give away his identiy in an area he works? Especially over untaxed cigarettes? Think!!!!!!!!!

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:

I don't think there was ever any doubt as to who the players were, was there?

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No, its the denial about what happened, not who, as you put it, the players were.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:

:lamo

After 222 pages and someone is still without a clue. No, in fact, he doesn't die in the video, no one is killed in the video. The actions in the video are a few of the things that contributed to his death.

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You must be a bad politician or a sleazy attorney. What :bs

Clown seems to be a fitting name...

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:

Hundreds of times now armchair warriors have falsely claimed Mr. Garner was being arrested - and that he resisted that arrest. Then on that known false claim justify Mr. Garner's death with endless personal attacks against him for his weight. Blame the victim theory.

Who says that is a lie? The officer they claim jumped on him for their known false claim he was being arrested. The officer who did the chokehold himself stated his actions were to "detain" Garner to held for questioning. At no time was Mr. Garner told he was under arrest nor that he being arrested, and in fact he was not being arrested and was not arrested.

Nor has anything been shown Mr. Garner was told he was being detained.

But never mind the truth, they know what they are posting is always false every time they post it. Instead, they deliberately continue to incessant keep posting FALSELY that he was "resisting arrest" and then rant and lecture about the known false declaration.

I can not recall as much deliberate and incessant dishonesty, covert expressions of racism and ideological motivated ignorance posted upstairs as in this thread.

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No it has nothing to with "incessant dishonesty" "covert expressions of racism" or "ideological motivated ignorance" . It has everything to do with people being challenged and not caring to "deal" with "face up to" unwillingness to vitally separate out the actions of the police from the rationale for their action. That’s because by virtually any logic, it is the height of irresponsibility not to. If anyone is showing themselves as an "armchair warrior" it is you. For because you watch one video recorded by a friend of Garner and now you are an expert what really happened when you have no idea the amount of evidence presented to the Grand Jury nor the testimony they heard that resulted in their decision. You are not familiar with NYC regulations what is acceptable force discerning what is a submission hold versus a chokehold. But the Grand Jury no doubt was schooled on it. Have a nice day.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

Yes "the tape" we have all seen recorded by his friend. Yet there are two other tapes recorded by two other by-standers that we haven't seen that the Grand Jury were privy to. The tape that was void of the altercation between the cop and Garner pushing him into a glass window of a business is not recorded on the tape made by his friend we have all seen. The officer trying to talk to Garner to co-operate with his arrest which grand jury testimony was confirmed by witnesses is not on the tape that Garner's friend created. But all of it may very well be on that videoed by two other by-standers along with the owner of the shop who witnessed it where the allocation took place. But when you got political groups, public officials in high positions, special interest groups, sending messages out that Grand Juries are racists, that prosecutors are racists, that cops are racists and can't be trusted, fueled by the media the distrust is overwhelming and unjustified/unfounded at this time.

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Ya and it probably has people screaming at the cops to start resuscitation. And the cop smiling and waving as the ambulance drove away.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

I'm not wearing blinders. No sir. But I have no doubt there will come a day that you will discover you are blind in one eye and can't see out of the other.

It doesn't matter that he was killed 4 months ago, the Grand Jury has been debating the case for over 9 weeks. And with their decision coming off the heels of Ferguson it was prime to milk this verdict for all it was worth for special interests, after all it was a white cop that subdued a black criminal that resulted in his death.
Today after Al Sharpton made a personal appearance with the widow of Garner, milking it for all he could get using her emotion to fuel it, he jotted off to another part of the country to do the eulogy at a funeral for another black man that was killed during an altercation with police with media coverage of course. Yeah, folks like Sharpton who like to be called Reverend, who use churches as a backdrop to promote hatred and discord among races, must have a special place in Hell with his name on it. I've attended the funerals of several officers who gave their life in law enforcement taken by some piece of slime who has no respect for life or the rule of law. I've heard the bagpipes played too many times over the years for these men. I have a niece in law enforcement. I know what she faces everyday on the job putting herself on the line to protect the innocent. I wonder how long it will be before she will be put into a position to be made a racist just for doing her job. Yeah there has to be a special place in Hell for people who provoke such divisiveness.

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Let me know when you want to discuss this case, not Ferguson, especially the facts.

Why are you so wrapped up in Hell?

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

Yes "the tape" we have all seen recorded by his friend. Yet there are two other tapes recorded by two other by-standers that we haven't seen that the Grand Jury were privy to. The tape that was void of the altercation between the cop and Garner pushing him into a glass window of a business is not recorded on the tape made by his friend we have all seen. The officer trying to talk to Garner to co-operate with his arrest which grand jury testimony was confirmed by witnesses is not on the tape that Garner's friend created. But all of it may very well be on that videoed by two other by-standers along with the owner of the shop who witnessed it where the allocation took place. But when you got political groups, public officials in high positions, special interest groups, sending messages out that Grand Juries are racists, that prosecutors are racists, that cops are racists and can't be trusted, fueled by the media the distrust is overwhelming and unjustified/unfounded at this time.

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vesper said:

No you are mistaken. The undercover officer caught Garner selling loosies, something the Chief of Police passed down to the precincts just days prior to crack down on. On his patrol he was observing drug activity as well as untaxed cigarettes because almost all of the cigarettes consumed in NY these days are black market due to the high taxes. When an undercover cop sees an illegal act he radios in the activity. Think about it, why would an undercover cop give away his identiy in an area he works? Especially over untaxed cigarettes? Think!!!!!!!!!

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Do you have a link to any of the facts you have presented here? Forgive me, but I ain't just gonna take your word for it.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:

Did they mention when they would release the entire thing?

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They didn't that I heard but I'm only listening with one ear.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

dirtpoorchris said:

Ya and it probably has people screaming at the cops to start resuscitation. And the cop smiling and waving as the ambulance drove away.

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You hate cops so much, have no respect for them. Fine, why not find a protest near you to join. There are plenty being planned by special interest groups. And when you all get done with tearing down the trust in law enforcement, don't you dare complain the consequences that will result from it. Have a nice day.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Kobie said:

Do you have a link to any of the facts you have presented here? Forgive me, but I ain't just gonna take your word for it.

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I've left plenty of links throughout this thread to back what I have stated.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

No you are mistaken. The undercover officer caught Garner selling loosies, something the Chief of Police passed down to the precincts just days prior to crack down on. On his patrol he was observing drug activity as well as untaxed cigarettes because almost all of the cigarettes consumed in NY these days are black market due to the high taxes. When an undercover cop sees an illegal act he radios in the activity. Think about it, why would an undercover cop give away his identiy in an area he works? Especially over untaxed cigarettes? Think!!!!!!!!!

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That makes no sense. If the only "witness" is an undercover cop, if he does not testify there can be no trial. Therefore his cover is blown. Certainly that speculation on your part does not add up to it then being a fact, only your speculation. I have my own speculations, but acknowledge that is what it is.

However, that does NOT change the fact that he was not being arrested - only being brought in for questioning - according to that one officer - and nothing shown he was even told that.

There were reports that what he was told was the a shop owner complained and therefore he had to go on his way - and he refused telling the police officers to stop harassing him and that he wasn't doing anything wrong.

All the piles and piles of messages that he was being "arrested" are false.

The YOUNG cop who jumped on his back may well have not actually known what was happened, he does have a history of harassing/abusing poor African-Americans, and my "speculation" (acknowledging that for what it is) is that young punk officer went completely maverick.

When he jumped on Garner's back by surprise - stupidly too as it certain Garner at 350 would stumble backwards into a huge pane of glass, thus endangering the life of that officer for his stupid and wrongful action - and that of Garner (though the officer said he only cared about his safety for the cutting danger he himself had created.)

This left no alternative for the other officers to jump into it.

It was that young, maverick loose-cannon-on-the-deck that set this all in motion. The other officers were telling Garner to go on his way - and Garner was arguing he had a right to be on the sidewalk the same as anyone else.

Whether some 3rd party said s/he saw him selling cigarettes adds up to nothing - and those officers knew it. They were just trying to make a shop owner stop complaining by telling Garner to move on.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064060808 said:

Let me know when you want to discuss this case, not Ferguson, especially the facts.

Why are you so wrapped up in Hell?

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When folks like you are so willing to accuse police officers of wrongdoing before you look at the whole picture, if things don't change real soon, it will be Hell, cause the police you beat down, might not be so willing to lay their ass on the line for those who think so little of them.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:

That makes no sense. If the only "witness" is an undercover cop, if does not testify there can be no trial. Certainly that speculation on your part does not add up to a fact.

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An undercover cop can get the illegal action on video.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

When folks like you are so willing to accuse police officers of wrongdoing before you look at the whole picture, if things don't change real soon, it will be Hell, cause the police you beat down, might not be so willing to lay their ass on the line for those who think so little of them.

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You are so biased you can't see the forrest for the trees.

I have stated facts, not opinion. You on the other hand have not.

The whole picture will bring back the life of Eric Garner? How about any part of the picture?

No, and no...

I didn't beat down the police. They don't to seem to need my help.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

When folks like you are so willing to accuse police officers of wrongdoing before you look at the whole picture, if things don't change real soon, it will be Hell, cause the police you beat down, might not be so willing to lay their ass on the line for those who think so little of them.

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So is that what the cop who killed Eric Garner did, lay his ass on the line for him?

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

You hate cops so much, have no respect for them. Fine, why not find a protest near you to join. There are plenty being planned by special interest groups. And when you all get done with tearing down the trust in law enforcement, don't you dare complain the consequences that will result from it. Have a nice day.

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Your messages are blind loyalty cheering police in general, for which the complexities of facts and that each police officer, like each person, is an individual and each incident stands or falls on the facts? This message of your's declares that is unthinkable to even consider.

It is the lack of a sense of justice, the sense that the law enforcement system is corrupt and harms people rather than helps them, is what erases the trust.

If it had been a gang of muggers who had done exactly what those officers had done, Mr. Garner might still be alive because 1.) other people may have come to his aid - while no one dare intervene in his behalf against the police 2.) police may have come to his aid - rather than other officers standing around watching and 3.) he might have gone CPR.

In this instance, those officers were worse violence against him and put him more into helplessness than had he been attacked by a gang.

That does not build trust when you might have to fear the police most of all.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064060873 said:

The whole picture will bring back the life of Eric Garner? How about any part of the picture?

No, and no...

I didn't beat down the police. They don't to seem need my help.

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Oh really, well here is hoping in the very near future you or any of your loved ones don't need their assistance. I know personally if I were a cop especially white, getting beaten down accused of atrocities starting with the White House to Eric Holder to Al Sharpton to Jesse Jackson to a number of special interests groups who happen to hate this country and want to destroy it one institution at a time, and today it just happens to be law enforcement,.......I wouldn't be so willing to lay my ass on the line for folks like you. Cheers!

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064060885 said:

So is that what the cop who killed Eric Garner did, lay his ass on the line for him?

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The cop that arrested Garner was following what the Chief of Police told him to do and that is crack down on those selling black market cigarettes. The cop got his orders from the Chief of Police. The Chief of Police got his orders from the Police Commissioner. The Police Commissioner got his order from Mayor de Balsio.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

An undercover cop can get the illegal action on video.

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If there was a video it would have definitely been made public. But for trial, a video can not be put into evidence without someone to prove it up. That is a procedural technicality in all criminal cases. And again this is just speculation on your part.

Trying to make this a generic police loyalty test serves no purpose.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

The cop that arrested Garner was following what the Chief of Police told him to do and that is crack down on those selling black market cigarettes. The cop got his orders from the Chief of Police. The Chief of Police got his orders from the Police Commissioner. The Police Commissioner got his order from Mayor de Balsio.

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Your claim that it was Mayor de Balsio ordered that officer to jump on Mr. Garner's back with a chock hold needs to be a Conspiracy thread topic. And then the mayor had the officer lie to the media saying Garner was not under arrest?

Do you have ANYTHING, anything whatsoever to back up what you are posting? I'm just curious. It is an incredible claim.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CMPancake said:

Watch the video, he's hardly shouting as much as he is using whatever leverage he had to gasp out "I can't breath." The shouts get louder when the cop performing the choke hold is replaced by the cop pressing Garner's face into the ground. Let's look at the "simply a hold" again.

Look at where the arm is wrapped around. I'll give you a hint, it's the neck. Notice how the officer's right hand is gripping into the arm that is wrapped around Garner's neck. That's hooking and pulling, it's a basic rear choke you learn in your first weak of BJJ. For comparison here is what a rear naked choke could look like if applied in the same way the officer applied his choke hold.

The choke is a choke, and to someone weighing 400 pounds, and asthmatic alone could spike his heart rate high enough to provoke the heart attack that killed him. (That and the four other officers compressing the back and chest as you said earlier.)

Does anyone have a link to the autopsy or a source? I know he died of a heart attack after the incident, but what did they determine the cause of death to be?

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Compression of his chest and neck--blood was getting to his brain but not getting out rupturing vessels in his brain. I believe that is what it said.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:

If there was a video it would have definitely been made public. But for trial, a video can not be put into evidence without someone to prove it up. That is a procedural technicality in all criminal cases. And again this is just speculation on your part.

Trying to make this a generic police loyalty test serves no purpose.

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No it wouldn't, a video of surveillance may very well be in evidence as that is how undercover cops work. Hardly anything around Grand Jury testimony has been made public. The only reason you have such a perverted view is because of the only video posted on the web by Garner's buddy . But since then things are leaking out. There happen to be two more videos taken by by-standers that the Grand Jury were privy to. We now know it was the business owners in the places where Garner would set up his business to sell illegal cigarettes that called the police department and complained. We still don't know the charges against the officer. There is a level, a threshold that has to be met before charging anyone of a crime. Yet here you are bloviating away as if to know all.

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:

Oh really, well here is hoping in the very near future you or any of your loved ones don't need their assistance. I know personally if I were a cop especially white, getting beaten down accused of atrocities starting with the White House to Eric Holder to Al Sharpton to Jesse Jackson to a number of special interests groups who happen to hate this country and want to destroy it one institution at a time, and today it just happens to be law enforcement,.......I wouldn't be so willing to lay my ass on the line for folks like you. Cheers!

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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

joko104 said:

Your claim that it was Mayor de Balsio ordered that officer to jump on Mr. Garner's back with a chock hold needs to be a Conspiracy thread topic. And then the mayor had the officer lie to the media saying Garner was not under arrest?

Do you have ANYTHING, anything whatsoever to back up what you are posting? I'm just curious. It is an incredible claim.

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I have posted numours links that back my claim. de Blasio needs the revenue cigarettes bring in. Its a fact easily googled that those who smoke in NY especically in NYC because they add additional taxes per pack is purchasing their cigs through black market, what's that doing to de Blasio's budget?

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

rhinefire said:

Looking at the video many time I have one question; why did the criminal refuse to cooperate with the police? Caught red handed he lifts his arms saying waddup dudes? then he places both hands on his hips sending another message of defiance. Resist the cops and you will pay.

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Caught red handed? Where did you see that?