• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If justice is killing an unarmed man for suspicion of selling loose cigarettes - God help us all.

Justice is having your neighbors evaluate the evidence and decide if there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime. You can choose to make it about whatever else you want but in the end it comes down to whether or not there is enough evidence to convince your neighbors that a crime occurred and there is enough evidence to charge someone.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Apparently the coroner ruled it as a homicide.

Apparently, what that means, for people who support the police's action is that he died of natural causes. Seriously.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Why aren't you attacking the liberal establishment that has added taxes upon taxes upon taxes and constrained and restricted people from starting businesses? This case cries out for an anti-tax rebellion. Ultimately it is liberalism that is at the root of this man's death.

No, that is a complaint, but ultimately is a chock hold, his head being pressed into concrete, an adult's weight on his back and 3 officers slamming him down on concrete - plus due to those officers no citizen could attempt CPS either.

The violence was singularly initiated by the police. After he was unconscious, it then was the police who assured he then had to die as no one could come to his aid.

The cigarette tax to make cigarettes a luxury only for the rich didn't kill him. That is what put him standing there. It was his being violently assaulted by numerous police that killed him.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

And hope the courts see things you way. You're not really doing much to counter my points.

That is the price you pay for being civilised society. It seems you prefer avoiding subtlety and want to be hostile towards law enforcement. That is counter intuitive.

I don't have a narrative towards this at all. I explained what your response meant. It meant that you believe people should allow themselves to be harassed and then, hopefully, peut-être, one day, maybe, quizas, quizas quizas, they'll get justice.

No. It means that people should comply with reasonable orders given by law enforcement to have the situation resolved with the least amount of violence possible.

Even if you aren't a fan of police, saying 'leave me alone' was probably not the best way to handle it.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It's also too bad the DA decided a grand jury was appropriate. This was a wrongful (albeit accidental) death. "I can't breath - I can't breath - I can't breath" means the guy was subdued. His lying on his stomach with weight on his back from the grappling officers? The consequence of that (his death) can be easily predicted. The officers should have been charged. No grand jury required.
Cool. So in New York City a grand jury is optional? The government can charge anyone they want for whatever they want without independent citizen involvement? If that is the case then why ever convene a grand jury? Why not just give the prosecutor an enemies list and let him go at it?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Then file charges for police harassment. Maybe things would be different today. Even if you have the narrative that police are just hostile towards black men, whate do you think acting hostile in response is going to accomplish?
The color of his skin is beside the point, though much will be made of it. What they did was just wrong, Black or White, man or woman.

How is Eric Garner going to file for police harassment?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Justice is having your neighbors evaluate the evidence and decide if there is enough evidence to charge someone with a crime. You can choose to make it about whatever else you want but in the end it comes down to whether or not there is enough evidence to convince your neighbors that a crime occurred and there is enough evidence to charge someone.

GJ jurors don't have to be his neighbors. In NY, they don't even need to live in the same city. So the neighbors thing is a bit of a stretch in a city of 10 million. Quit using it.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Eric Garner did not apply a choke-hold on anyone so Newton's third law doesn't apply here.

It appears he didn't comply with any orders given by police, either. All I know is that police tend to get pretty rough after that starts...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Apparently, what that means, for people who support the police's action is that he died of natural causes. Seriously.

There is no factual question over whether it was a homicide nor whether the police assaulted him. Those are just truisms.

However, the legal question is what it "justifiable homicide," were the assaults illegal, was it "reckless endangerment" or "official oppression?" The prosecutor's office said no, no, no and no - so that's that.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Cool. So in New York City a grand jury is optional? The government can charge anyone they want for whatever they want without independent citizen involvement? If that is the case then why ever convene a grand jury? Why not just give the prosecutor an enemies list and let him go at it?

The reason for the GJ is because it is required, so a pointless technicality. In fact, there is no purpose to it in application.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

That is the price you pay for being civilised society. It seems you prefer avoiding subtlety and want to be hostile towards law enforcement. That is counter intuitive.

Still trying to misrepresent my explanation of your points?

No. It means that people should comply with reasonable orders given by law enforcement to have the situation resolved with the least amount of violence possible.

Even if you aren't a fan of police, saying 'leave me alone' was probably not the best way to handle it.

There is nothing reasonable about holding a man in a chokehold because he talked in a way you didn't like. :shrug:
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

If it were, it would have been one vote for indictment.

I believe you are better than this. You have not seen the evidence. You are going along with the mob.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The color of his skin is beside the point, though much will be made of it. What they did was just wrong, Black or White, man or woman.

It was a hypothetical question.

How is Eric Garner going to file for police harassment?

Filing a compliant for starters.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

There is no factual question over whether it was a homicide nor whether the police assaulted him. Those are just truisms.

However, the legal question is what it "justifiable homicide," were the assaults illegal, was it "reckless endangerment" or "official oppression?" The prosecutor's office said no, no, no and no - so that's that.

You're preaching to the choir. However, VanceMack and others haved tried their hardest to make the guys death look like it was from natural causes. That's about as dishonest as saying JFK didn't die because Oswald killed him, he died because his brain popped out of his skull.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Apparently, what that means, for people who support the police's action is that he died of natural causes. Seriously.
Well it is natural, I suppose, if one person is choking you, another is pressing your head in the concrete and not allowing you to breath, and a couple more are sitting on you. Death then is quite natural.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Then your definition of resisting is false.
Or yours is. It really does not matter to me. The Grand Jury, I am certain, was advised about the law as part of the evidence. Stop being a little boy. Put on your big boy pants.

And in this case, they were wrong.
Whether you agree or not is irrelevant. This is justice.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Even if you aren't a fan of police, saying 'leave me alone' was probably not the best way to handle it.

Obviously not. The best thing for him to do would have been to confess to whatever the officers said, done or said anything, , faked a heart attack, got on his knees begging for his life. Said, done anything, anything at all to keep his wife from becoming a widow and his children having no father. He should have considered the police more dangerous than any street gang. People might come to his rescue - and the police might too - if a street gang was attacking him.

Unfortunately, he mistakenly believed he had human and civil rights in relation to the NYPD. It cost him his life.

And as you read on this forum, many agree it should have and that he accordingly had committed suicide by cop.

NYC is one of the most violent, dangerous cities in the world. The NYPD are part of that violence, although not the worse of it for sure.

We visited NYC recently. It was interesting but we greatly disliked it. Human life and individuality is cheap there. You want to be the value of a nobody, go to NYC. We only had one interaction with the police. Towards me, their instant reaction was nervous annoyance preparing towards trouble as in I was only potential trouble. But very personable, talkative and pleasant towards my Mrs. - for which I said nothing, ducked my head and stepped back submissively and she moved closer and between them and I. This level of tension and easing over the mere question of asking directions.

Don't fuck with the NYPD. Don't disagree. Don't argue. Don't bother them. No questions. Avoid them any way possible. Chicago police are more dangerous, but the NYPD is plenty dangerous. NYPD seems more a NYPD us-versus-them (people) team attitude. Chicago is more a collective of mavericks and high testosterone stags confident they can do any damn thing they want because of that badge. The difference between WE are the NYPD and I am a Chicago cop as a power statement.
 
Last edited:
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

That is the price you pay for being civilised society. It seems you prefer avoiding subtlety and want to be hostile towards law enforcement. That is counter intuitive.

No. It means that people should comply with reasonable orders given by law enforcement to have the situation resolved with the least amount of violence possible.

Even if you aren't a fan of police, saying 'leave me alone' was probably not the best way to handle it.
He forgot to say 'Please', huh?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Still trying to misrepresent my explanation of your points?

How am I misrepresenting your explanation? You believe no one should sit idle and take harassment. You don't believe simply complying to reasonable orders give by law enforcement is effective.

What exactly would you do?

There is nothing reasonable about holding a man in a chokehold because he talked in a way you didn't like. :shrug:

It wasn't because he talked back to police.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do you realize his death was ruled a homicide? I'll give you a clue. Homicide doesn't mean he died because of an asthma attack. Please keep making stuff up. It's fun to see you play the real vs. fake game. :)

Homocide. Right.

Homicide is the act of a human killing another human.[1]​
We can agree it was not death due to a bee sting or a lightning strike.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

No, people can't "file charges." That is a slogan myth. Only police or DAs can file charges.

Yes, this is the final argument for being a submissive person. Life will be much easier on you if you are submissive and regressive.

That's the motto of the stock brokers on the Stock Exchange floor too. Be submissive and docile. It is a highly desired trait and the route to success in life - being submissive to hostility. :lol:

Do work in the food service industry in NYC maybe?

No.....
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I would say that he forgot that he had the right to remain silent.

It was using his right to refuse to speak with police that got him in a choke hold then sent barreling to the ground.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Really.

I question the validity of the GJ in this case.
Because it was obvious to anyone there was enough to indict.


I would question this GJ and the process and investigate it. I'm not one to blame cops in fact the direct opposite. I'm also one for considering as much evidence as possible before coming to a judgement, so I'm probably one of the LAST people to speak out and claim something stinks .... in this case it's overwhelmingly wrong what happened. It's like a group of people all claiming gravity doesn't exist and the sky isn't blue when we obviously know different and it's obvious.
You should run to your local courthouse and volunteer to be on a grand jury.

You have no idea what the grand jury heard as testimony. But you want revenge. This is the worst of human instincts.
Great. Get your revenge. And then brace yourself for what must come. You are begging for tyranny. And if you succeed you shall have it.
 
Back
Top Bottom