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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I've been thinking about this event. What a tragedy. I mean, think about a guy who's trying to earn some (what amounts to) spare change selling loosies on the streets of New York. And he's dead now. IMO, it has to do with training. De-escalation is a cop's friend.

So, what else might the cops have done with this guy?

"Hey, man, we've had a couple of complaints from business owners nearby. You're either going to have to move on? Or we're going to have to arrest you. Your choice. Me? I don't want to do the paperwork. Keep moving." Frankly, that could've been done from out-the-window of a squad car. Circle a 4-block area and come back to make sure he's gone.

If he doesn't leave, then we're back to a confrontation. I like to think/hope that we all agree with the rule of law in this country. But what kind of confrontation? I'd say a taser, not a 5-guy pile-on. That should probably be policy. I envision this:

"You're under arrest (for xxxxx). So here's what's going to happen. I'm going to cuff you and take you down to the station. If you resist, that officer over there is going to taze you, and, on top of this misdemeanor charge, you're going to jail for resisting arrest." (Other officer standing with tazer in hand.)

Too fat to get tazed? Too bad. Too old to get tazed? Too bad. There simply MUST be procedures that cops are required to follow before they can do a pile-on. We have the technology. Body cameras, tasers, etc. It's time we learned how to use them all.

It's also too bad the DA decided a grand jury was appropriate. This was a wrongful (albeit accidental) death. "I can't breath - I can't breath - I can't breath" means the guy was subdued. His lying on his stomach with weight on his back from the grappling officers? The consequence of that (his death) can be easily predicted. The officers should have been charged. No grand jury required.

You can actually earn lots of money selling loosies here. You would not believe how much cigarettes cost here, which is probably why police take this law so seriously here...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Please tell us during what minute:second the cops asked him to leave.

So now you've abandoned the one goalpost change and are on to denying everything. Please, stop the games. I'll take another look at your compilation and get back to you. You can prepare by dreaming up the next bit of spaghetti you wish to fling.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So now you've abandoned the one goalpost change and are on to denying everything. Please, stop the games. I'll take another look at your compilation and get back to you. You can prepare by dreaming up the next bit of spaghetti you wish to fling.

You won't tell us what minute second this happened on? Great.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You can actually earn lots of money selling loosies here. You would not believe how much cigarettes cost here, which is probably why police take this law so seriously here...

Oh, I will forever think that's a chicken-**** law, WSV. I heard on the news today that a pack costs $14 in NYC. So, they GET their tax. If some guys want to sell them for $2 apiece? That, to me, is free enterprise. That law is baloney.

I hope you're WSV because you're a successful daytradin' guru. ;)
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Howdy P!

Yes, there appears to be a new wave of "victimization" in this country. In the 60's we were trying to overcome adversity. Sure, people advocated for the rights of women and the rights of blacks but there was a general presumption that blacks and women would also strive to overcome those things that were holding them back. It was a two sided effort.

However, at that same time there arose an academic cadre that discovered that there was a lot of power and money to be had in "victim assistance". If you were a good "victim's advocate" or "community organizer" you could get a whole lot of say in how much money the government should provide to assist the cause of equality. You could also have a lot of say in how and to whom that money got distributed.

It wasn't too long after that realization that it became apparent to some that all these people that were being helped made up one heck of a bloc of voters and how better to secure votes than by the old carrot and stick routine? You could hand out "assistance" with one hand but there would always be the understanding that disagreement with the system would mean that assistance would be at risk.

The last revelation in the chain was that if this voting bloc could be expanded quite a bit if only more people were victims of "inequality" and needed assistance. That's where we are now. There is a MASSIVE effort to get people to believe that they are victims of something. Blacks are supposed to be victims of whites. Gays are supposed to be victims of straights. Atheists are supposed to be victims of theists. Blondes are victims of brunettes. Everyone is a victim of corporations and government is a victim of the people.

Welcome to the 21st Century!!!

It's not what I pictured but it seems to be what I have to deal with.

Not too long ago, if you were being "victimized," that was a very bad thing. Now, it's accepted and even something to strive for? Thanks anyway, Big Government, but I'll pass. I never thought the 21st Century meant I had to go back in time, and live Orwell's 1984, but it appears my parents erred in raising me the way they did, and it's just something that I will need time to adjust to. DAMN! Unlearning things are proving more difficult than I imagined. It's probably an inherited DNA thing..... :mrgreen:... :thumbdown:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh, I will forever think that's a chicken-**** law, WSV. I heard on the news today that a pack costs $14 in NYC. So, they GET their tax. If some guys want to sell them for $2 apiece? That, to me, is free enterprise. That law is baloney.

I hope you're WSV because you're a successful daytradin' guru. ;)

I liked this cause it made me laugh. Lol, you're not a smoker are ya? If you're going to be buying smokes for $2 a piece in NYC, you may as well buy a whole pack. I guess it would work if you need a fix, but for the most part - $2 a smoke would easily run you more than the pack's cost by the 7th cigarette.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You won't tell us what minute second this happened on? Great.

Again, quit the silly games, I told you I'd rewatch the video. At 50 seconds in the commentator who is taking the video says, "this guy right here is being forced to leave because he was breaking up a fight"/

Btw, I'm still wondering about that fight thing, there has been no mention of any fight in the reporting I've read.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You can actually earn lots of money selling loosies here. You would not believe how much cigarettes cost here, which is probably why police take this law so seriously here...

That and they sell to kids.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh, I will forever think that's a chicken-**** law, WSV. I heard on the news today that a pack costs $14 in NYC. So, they GET their tax. If some guys want to sell them for $2 apiece? That, to me, is free enterprise. That law is baloney.

Oh yeah, the law is bull****, but it's merely a consequence of our sin tax. And $14 is the highest price I've seen for cigs (probably Virginia Slims or Benson & Hedges). The average price for cigs (Newports, Camel, Marlboro) would be around $11 - $13. The lowest I've seen is $10 for everything else I think.

Point is, smoking is a very expensive habit to have in New York city, and a very lucrative business if you aren't paying the tax for selling cigs. Just seems really silly to me how people can focus on race instead of why this happened in the first place, which was the cigarettes.

I hope you're WSV because you're a successful daytradin' guru. ;)

It's the only way I know how to be :)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I liked this cause it made me laugh. Lol, you're not a smoker are ya? If you're going to be buying smokes for $2 a piece in NYC, you may as well buy a whole pack. I guess it would work if you need a fix, but for the most part - $2 a smoke would easily run you more than the pack's cost by the 7th cigarette.

Most are willing to buy loosies for $2
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh, I will forever think that's a chicken-**** law, WSV. I heard on the news today that a pack costs $14 in NYC. So, they GET their tax. If some guys want to sell them for $2 apiece? That, to me, is free enterprise. That law is baloney.

I hope you're WSV because you're a successful daytradin' guru. ;)

The loosie sellers make more money when they buy packs from back alley importers (Canada is a prime source), or even online. These are not taxed cigs. Plus as I mentioned they sell to children that cannot buy them at the store legally.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If I am not doing anything threatening, and a cop goes to grab me and doesn't tell me I am under arrest then saying "don't touch me" is "resisting arrest"? Street cops have an enormous amount of discretion and should use it to maintain public safety and order, not create unnecessary chaos. Are they so unskilled at their profession that this was the best way they could come up with to handle the situation? This is speculation on my part but I think these cops just wanted to practice their take down skills on the big guy and maintain their rep in the district they work in, protection and safety of the public did nor enter their consideration.
If Mr. Garner was wanted for murder or rape then go for it. He was trying to take advantage of the city's oppressive taxation and hustle a few bucks. Write him a citation and call it a day. Our country is so polarized that most people run for their ideological corner and view the incident through a racial or political prism. This is about what kind of nation we want to live in and should transcend politics.
To anyone maintaining that the police were just following procedure I have a question:
Imagine your 16 year old daughter is approached by a group of cops for suspected shoplifting (a more serious offense than the one Mr. Garner was suspected of). She loudly protests. The cop goes to grab her arm and she says "don't touch me". She is now put in a choke hold and slammed to the ground. You are all hunky-dory with this, right?
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

:lamo

It's not just the cops who recognize patterns of criminality, it's also our courts. In fact a whole lot of evidence is introduced to show a pattern of criminality. You see, commit a particular offence once, the judge may let you off with a warning and a significantly reduced fine. By the 32cd time you're obviously not getting the message and the fines/penalties will be enhanced.

In a court of law you need to be convicted for them to recognize it. See the difference? You probably don't.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh, I will forever think that's a chicken-**** law, WSV. I heard on the news today that a pack costs $14 in NYC. So, they GET their tax. If some guys want to sell them for $2 apiece? That, to me, is free enterprise. That law is baloney.

I hope you're WSV because you're a successful daytradin' guru. ;)


they get their taxes if the cigs have their state tax stamp on them

but enterprising people go to virginia or nc where the taxes are MUCH lower, buy them and transport them back

you can easily make $ 8-10 a pack selling single cigarettes or more

a couple of cartons a day, and you have a thriving business
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I liked this cause it made me laugh. Lol, you're not a smoker are ya? If you're going to be buying smokes for $2 a piece in NYC, you may as well buy a whole pack. I guess it would work if you need a fix, but for the most part - $2 a smoke would easily run you more than the pack's cost by the 7th cigarette.

That would lead me to believe a lot of the customers are children who cannot buy legally at stores for any price.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I liked this cause it made me laugh. Lol, you're not a smoker are ya? If you're going to be buying smokes for $2 a piece in NYC, you may as well buy a whole pack. I guess it would work if you need a fix, but for the most part - $2 a smoke would easily run you more than the pack's cost by the 7th cigarette.

It's my understanding they sell them to the homeless, those who've "quit smoking" and e-cig smokers. No, I'm not that stupid.

Yet.

;)

Well, I just looked it up. Here's a whole article about loosies. I thought they bought them legally, but apparently they're mostly bootlegged from out of state. Ooops. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/nyregion/05loosie.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Again, quit the silly games, I told you I's rewatch the video. At 50 seconds in the commentator who is taking the video says, "this guy right here is being forced to leave because he was breaking up a fight"/

Btw, I'm still wondering about that fight thing, there has been no mention of any fight in the reporting I've read.

The contradictions in your posts are getting insanely ridiculous.

First you claim the police told him to leave in the video.
Then, when asked to show us in what part of the video, you come back to claim this assertion is based on the commentary of one person. Meaning, you can't really show us when the police told him to leave.
Then you tell us you're wondering about the fight which isn't in the video either but is only supported by that commentary.

You're desperately looking for an argument and I'm really just done with your ducking and dodging. Not only could you not support your assertions about what was said in the video, you relied on someone's commentary and the questioned the part of that commentary which doesn't help you. Here's the question again and for the last time, hell, I'll even make it clearer so you won't try and dodge: At what minute:second can the police be heard telling him to leave?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Right. Like taking a man to the ground and handcuffing him. I agree. Unfortunately, in that incident, the guy resisting arrest had about 8,327 too many cheeseburgers and likely had a heart attack.

Probably not the choke holding, probably not the piling on of other officers once the individual as given up. You know, just curbing the excess force a tad.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh yeah, the law is bull****, but it's merely a consequence of our sin tax. And $14 is the highest price I've seen for cigs (probably Virginia Slims or Benson & Hedges). The average price for cigs (Newports, Camel, Marlboro) would be around $11 - $13. The lowest I've seen is $10 for everything else I think.

Point is, smoking is a very expensive habit to have in New York city, and a very lucrative business if you aren't paying the tax for selling cigs. Just seems really silly to me how people can focus on race instead of why this happened in the first place, which was the cigarettes.



It's the only way I know how to be :)

Rock on, sista.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If I am not doing anything threatening, and a cop goes to grab me and doesn't tell me I am under arrest then saying "don't touch me" is "resisting arrest"? Street cops have an enormous amount of discretion and should use it to maintain public safety and order, not create unnecessary chaos. Are they so unskilled at their profession that this was the best way they could come up with to handle the situation? This is speculation on my part but I think these cops just wanted to practice their take down skills on the big guy and maintain their rep in the district they work in, protection and safety of the public did nor enter their consideration.
If Mr. Garner was wanted for murder or rape then go for it. He was trying to take advantage of the city's oppressive taxation and hustle a few bucks. Write him a citation and call it a day. Our country is so polarized that most people run for their ideological corner and view the incident through a racial or political prism. This is about what kind of nation we want to live in and should transcend politics.
To anyone maintaining that the police were just following procedure I have a question:
Imagine your 16 year old daughter is approached by a group of cops for suspected shoplifting (a more serious offense than the one Mr. Garner was suspected of). She loudly protests. The cop goes to grab her arm and she says "don't touch me". She is now put in a choke hold and slammed to the ground. You are all hunky-dory with this, right?

In this scenario is my 16 year old daughter 6' and 350 lbs? Then probably, yes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

They've recently increased the legal smoking age here to 21, so I guess that is obviously working...

Hey, I'm not at all for the NYC law or the sin taxes. But it is what it is. Even so, I'm still okay with restricting sales of cigs and alcohol to minors.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

It's my understanding they sell them to the homeless, those who've "quit smoking" and e-cig smokers. No, I'm not that stupid.

Yet.

;)

Well, I just looked it up. Here's a whole article about loosies. I thought they bought them legally, but apparently they're mostly bootlegged from out of state. Ooops. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/05/nyregion/05loosie.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

That's mostly the reason I asked. The homeless aren't spending 2 bucks on smokes. They're being sold for 75 cents. Hell, if he sold a whole pack, he's still not making 2$ a smoke. Lucrative my ass. If he was in his 40s and still peddling smokes, he wasn't the big bad criminal the police brutality apologists claim he was. Source: I know more about illicit drug sales than most cops.
 
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