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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Please, please, educate yourself before you spout off like this. The grand jury is part of due process. And grand jurors can question witnesses, trial jurors cannot.

Read my link above. Grand Juries do what the DA tells them to do in NY. ALWAYS.

Educate yourself.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

I grew up in nyc and my office is in chelsea, nyc.

I have an attorney on my payroll.

You accosted me as if i dont know.

I do know. I live and work here.




I research penal code all the time. Its a great way to win debates.



You made claims but refuse to back them up. Noted.

Note all you want. I didn't "accost" you and I made no claims of knowledge of NY law. Only how the arrest went, which was how they usually go down.
You want to fight, yell, struggle, resist. You get what you get. Quote me where I over stated anything.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

This would only be relevant if the victim tried to hurt the cops. Just because someone is huge doesnt mean you can use lethal moves on them. Being fat doesnt give you the right to use a lethal move on someone. They have to be posing a threat to you, you know... trying to hurt you and you fear for your life.

They aren't normally lethal moves. Garner's frail condition rendered non-lethal moves lethal. So, in that situation the officers had no reason to believe they were using lethal force.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I know...it is broken. Why not a trial? Why not cross examination? Why not a real actual trial? If the cops are innocent, the trial will find that, won't it?

If a non policeman grabbed him and choke holded him and killed him, there would be a regular trial...but cops...well, that is different....


Keep licking those boots.

do you like throwing money away?

do you understand what a trial like that would cost?

you think people are mad now, waste 2-3 million on a trial, and get zero convictions

yeah....i bet that would go over really well also

a trial is idiotic if the prosecution doesnt feel that they can win the case
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Good grief. The grand jury determines whether or not there is enough evidence to indict someone for a crime. If there is not enough evidence it doesn't matter who the victim is.



Haha wut.

What information do you have access to that the Grand Jury doesn't?

You are living in an amazingly ignorant bubble. You don't understand the function of a grand jury or have any possible way of knowing what information was presented to the Grand Jury.. yet still you claim to know more than the Grand Jury and what the outcome should have been. :roll:

We have access to everything the DA did not present to the grand jury. Grand juries in NY do what the DA tells them. You message is naïve at best.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Then stay out of threads that aren't about Florida I suppose. What a ridiculous dodge.
You the boss or something. I can have an opinion of anything from anywhere. I also know how arrests work and what people should do in the presence of a cop.
Dude didn't want to get arrested again, AGAIN. And put up a struggle. And lost. Too bad for him.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Police commisoner gleefully announces it's not a choke.

Tyrone here can teach you said "non choke".


This is the exact choke applied (poorly by the cop)

Lapel Choke



I would be happy to teach it to the comish.


note to zyph: i think it probably hurt a little more than i first thought. I'm going to have it tried on me tonight. Its still applied poorly so not sure.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I know...it is broken. Why not a trial? Why not cross examination? Why not a real actual trial? If the cops are innocent, the trial will find that, won't it?

Actually that way you find out less. Again the witnesses can be questioned by the grand jurors, trial jurors cannot do that. More evidence and witnesses excluded from trial, because at that point it's adversarial.

If a non policeman grabbed him and choke holded him and killed him, there would be a regular trial...but cops...well, that is different....

Duh! It is different. Btw, just because a citizen chokeholds someone to death doesn't mean there's going to be a trial. Do you understand how any of our system works?


Keep licking those boots.

Mindless insults because you haven't bothered to learn anything about the system you like to comment upon.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

do you like throwing money away?

do you understand what a trial like that would cost?

you think people are mad now, waste 2-3 million on a trial, and get zero convictions

yeah....i bet that would go over really well also

a trial is idiotic if the prosecution doesnt feel that they can win the case

SO naïve. Not prosecuting supports the DA's office defending against the wrongful death civil suit. The DA obtaining a conviction would be the DA's office working against itself in the civil suit. There were 50,000,000 reasons and 1000 saved hours of work by not actually pursuing an indictment.

The DA put up an incredible defense for those officers too! The odds of NOT being indicted by an NY grand jury for a case brought before it by a prosecutor? 80,000 to 1. For those 4 officers not being indicted, there will be over 400,000 people who are. Basically, the only people in NY not indicted for anything brought to GJs are either police or government. EVERYONE else is indicted.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Still can't smoke a joint outside, they've made it clear they'll still arrest for that. The new policy is about possession, not use.



I was being a litter tongue in cheek.


It would have been better said he should have had weed in his pocket instead of those nefarios cigarettes
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Yes, it also has a cause of death for every killing, that has zero relevance to whether they're homicides or not. :) Thanks for not answering VanceMack.
You first. What was the cause of death? Maybe Joko and Tex can help you.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Police commisoner gleefully announces it's not a choke.

Tyrone here can teach you said "non choke".


This is the exact choke applied (poorly albiet)

Lapel Choke



I would be happy to teach it to the comish.


note to zyph: i think it probably hurt a little more than i first thought. I'm going to have it tried on me tonight. Its still applied poorly so not sure.

This only is the same if you 1.) lay on your chest, 2.) have someone put 150 pounds on your back and 3.) another person put 150 pounds on your head. Then have someone do it.

Also, you have to be surprised by this. No warning. Arrange for 3 guys to do this with no notice. Tell them "anytime, day or night, the 3 off you jump me, throw me to the ground - ideally a hard surface - with a chock hold for 8 seconds with that much weight on both my back and head while chocking me."

Let us know how it goes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You first. What was the cause of death? Maybe Joko and Tex can help you.

If you won't read there is no point to posting it again and again. There is no intellectual integrity nor consistency in your messages.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Lets look at this another way you have haymarket, me, hautey, limbaugh and hannity all in agreement this should never have gotten this far.

To get to this point something has gone terribly wrong.




Also deblasio orders police to crack down on illegal ciggys, throws police under bus when they do.


Nyc and ny created the black market that led to sending officers who end up killin someone over loosies.


Wtf

Yeah - DeBlasio is looking like a f'n two faced **** who threw his guys under the bus. Remember, this is the guy who promised to reform Stop & Frisk but under him, the actual discrepancies in the searches have become more obvious. I'm fuming over the latest reports he fears for his biracial son. As if the sons and daughters of politicians regularly walked through low income neighborhoods, had to deal with aggression from cops, or had guns pointed at them by officers.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

You first. What was the cause of death? Maybe Joko and Tex can help you.

Lmao, what is this? A game? VanceMack, I told you the cause of death was police action. Do you deny that? Or are you going with the asthma did it defense?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

This only is the same if you 1.) lay on your chest, 2.) have someone put 150 pounds on your back and 3.) another person put 150 pounds on your head. Then have someone do it.

Also, you have to be surprised by this. No warning. Arrange for 3 guys to do this with no notice. Tell them "anytime, day or night, the 3 off you jump me, throw me to the ground - ideally a hard surface - with a chock hold for 8 seconds with that much weight on both my back and head while chocking me."



Let us know how it goes.



Not sure of the purpose of this exercise. Lol


Maybe you misunderstand my position
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

You want to fight, yell, struggle, resist. You get what you get.


What's your excuse when the suspect is already handcuffed and not doing any of those?




 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

What's your excuse when the suspect is already handcuffed and not doing any of those?






"already handcuffed" persons can still do damage. But then it goes to a hog tie.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Actually that way you find out less. Again the witnesses can be questioned by the grand jurors, trial jurors cannot do that. More evidence and witnesses excluded from trial, because at that point it's adversarial.



Duh! It is different. Btw, just because a citizen chokeholds someone to death doesn't mean there's going to be a trial. Do you understand how any of our system works?




Mindless insults because you haven't bothered to learn anything about the system you like to comment upon.

What is wrong with adversarial?

Cross examination....why are you afraid of that?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

From the list of contributing factors and his weight, yes he wasn't long for this earth.

So you are claiming that regardless of cop intervention, this dude would currently be dead. Not sure I would agree.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Not sure of the purpose of this exercise. Lol


Maybe you misunderstand my position

You're probably exactly right about that. :lol:

This thread is going fast and furious.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Do cops get to arrest people? What do cops do when those people refuse to be detained ('resist arrest')?

Reasonable force.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Oh look, another thug cop doing a chokehold on someone...
Cops sure hate it when someone catches them on video.


Texas cop allowed to resign one week after video exposes him putting woman in chokehold

An off-duty Texas law enforcement officer who was caught on video using a chokehold while trying to get information from a witness has been allowed to resign instead of being fired.

In a video posted to YouTube last week, Nueces County Attorney’s Office investigator Gary Witherspoon can be seen in uniform placing Lanessa Espinosa in a chokehold while Corpus Christi Police Officer Jerry Lockhart attempted to obtain her identification.

Espinosa explained to the Corpus Christi Caller-Times that Lockhart was demanding to see her ID because she believed that she may have been involved in a fight at a restaurant on Aug. 16.

Video recorded by Espinosa shows her insisting that she did not have to produce ID, and saying that she was stepping back because she felt threatened by Lockhart. At that point, Lockhart begins to place her in handcuffs, while the video catches Witherspoon putting her in a chokehold.

In a statement on Wednesday, Nueces County Attorney’s Office said that Witherspoon had decided to resign.

“The termination is a result of his involvement and actions at an incident that took place on August 16, 2014, as well as other employment issues,” the statement said. “However, during the termination process, Mr. Witherspoon asked for and was allowed to resign in lieu of (termination).”

In another chokehold case on Wednesday, a Staten Island grand jury had decided not to indict New York City Police Officer Daniel Pantaleo for the July 17 death of Eric Garner, who died as a result of compression of the neck. Pantaleo has been suspended from the police force without pay, but has not been fired.

The Corpus Christi Police Department defended Lockhart’s detention of Espinosa in a statement on Monday, saying that she had been interfering with the officer’s public duties.

“The detention was based on the incident (that she had been involved in the fight, which she admitted), and not due to the fact that Ms. Espinosa was videotaping the officers,” the statement asserted.

For her part, Espinosa said that she was not involved in the fight, and that she was only in the restaurant parking lot because the officer had not allowed her to leave.

KIII reported that Lockhart had been disciplined after dashcam video showed that he asked Espinosa to delete the chokehold video.

“I was not doing anything wrong,” she told the Corpus Christi Caller-Times. “And it’s my right to refuse [to provide ID] if I’m not being charged.”

Espinosa was never charged with a crime. She is now considering a civil rights lawsuit against the city.


Watch video of the incident below.



Texas cop allowed to resign one week after video exposes him putting woman in chokehold
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I know...it is broken. Why not a trial? Why not cross examination? Why not a real actual trial? If the cops are innocent, the trial will find that, won't it?

If a non policeman grabbed him and choke holded him and killed him, there would be a regular trial...but cops...well, that is different....

Keep licking those boots.


It is only broken when you don't like the outcome. The reason you don't take everything directly to trial is the cost and time commitment and the chance of prosecutorial overreach.
 
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