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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Whether cig sales should be taxed by the city or not just does not matter in this case. Whether it should be a criminal act to sell cigs without the required tax is also without application here. The man died because he refused to be cuffed and he had compromised his health to the point where he couldn't handle the struggle he caused. From the looks of the event that we have access to I'm sure the officers would have preferred to cuff him standing up. He decided that wasn't going to happen.

Which is why it's involuntary manslaughter.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

That's a GREAT point!

With all this focus on popular causes the people who really need help aren't getting it.

At some point there's going to be a reckoning and lots of folks are going to be forced to do a whole lot of rather uncomfortable soul searching.



No they are not, even here in this left coast bastion of professional socialists. At each shooting either by a man gone berserk or the shooting of one, which happened here last week, I have to ask if that would have happened if the "psycho" had adequate care. It's not like their out there hiding.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The stupid, stupid claim that the ONLY potential criminal charge was murder is VERY annoying and was a CHEESY tactic of the DA.

What about "assault?" "Official oppression?" "Abuse?" "Violation of Civil Rights?"

Oh no, no - only debate and deal in absolutes - either it was or wasn't "manslaughter/murder." Let's not even discuss assault, abuse, oppression, civil rights...

Nor even think about any employment sanctions, reprimands either. ONLY the question of it was or wasn't murder. EVERY POSSIBLY WAY to eliminate liability for the man's death.
Civil rights violations are currently being investigated by the feds. I would be SHOCKED if the cops involved with this are not brought up on civil rights charges. I expect convictions, also.


I still can't believe they were not indicted by the grand jury. Very sad set of events to this point.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So if the cops had not showed up, he would have still died, yes?

From the list of contributing factors and his weight, yes he wasn't long for this earth.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Give him a ticket.

And, not kill him.

Seems simple.

What the people whose property he was trespassing on? Screw'em? They just have to deal with it?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

I'll bet that at the lawsuit the cops story will be that Garner stepped up to the edge and they shouldn't be held responsible because he fell.

The cops shoved him in and watched him fall.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Ummm - I'm exposing the stupidity in the what if things had been different arguments. What if he'd been white? What if he'd been shorter? What if he'd been skinny? None of these factors make a difference in what is in question here which is the legality of what the police did.

An answer to which we do not have the evidence to determine. From what we do know it appears that the police were acting legally. For preemptive purposes, the chokehold is not illegal, just against department policy.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death



If anyone is interested in seeing how another cop handled a similar situation. A guy is essentially waving his hands in front of an officer, getting people to surround him, and lecturing a cop on the legality of his actions, while carrying a god damn boa on his neck. What does the cop do? Remain calm, and address the situation with seriousness. If we were to follow the what if arguments of some of the police brutality apologists, he should have been shot to death and his snake should have been used to keep his body from falling from the stretcher. :lol:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Civil rights violations are currently being investigated by the feds. I would be SHOCKED if the cops involved with this are not brought up on civil rights charges. I expect convictions, also.


I still can't believe they were not indicted by the grand jury. Very sad set of events to this point.

If Sharpton and the other community organizers get involved it a no duh that Holder will jump in too.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

What the people whose property he was trespassing on? Screw'em? They just have to deal with it?

How far up your intestinal tract did you have to reach to find this piece of **** excuse?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death



If anyone is interested in seeing how another cop handled a similar situation. A guy is essentially waving his hands in front of an officer, getting people to surround him, and lecturing a cop on the legality of his actions, while carrying a god damn boa on his neck. What does the cop do? Remain calm, and address the situation with seriousness. If we were to follow the what if arguments of some of the police brutality apologists, he should have been shot to death and his snake should have been used to keep his body from falling from the stretcher. :lol:


Not a similar situation in any way and a further attempt to play games rather than address the actual event that is the thread topic.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

An answer to which we do not have the evidence to determine.

Ummmm... he provided an answer to a what if question that can't be answered either way. His question is what if he'd been like this? Well, that's what makes it a ridiculous argument. Stop being an apologist.

From what we do know it appears that the police were acting legally.

Using policies they banned themselves from using years ago? You're joking... right?

For preemptive purposes, the chokehold is not illegal, just against department policy.

Lol, your weaving and dodging is ridiculous. If they are barred from using that practice, is it legal for them to use it? :lol: You're splitting hairs.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

He was murdered. The Coroner ruled his death a homicide. The question is whether or not this homicide was justified or not. I say it was not justified and at the least, the policeman should have been charged with manslaughter.
Great...you, Joko, and Hatuey are all thinking alike. Now...what did he DIE of?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Whether cig sales should be taxed by the city or not just does not matter in this case. Whether it should be a criminal act to sell cigs without the required tax is also without application here. The man died because he refused to be cuffed and he had compromised his health to the point where he couldn't handle the struggle he caused. From the looks of the event that we have access to I'm sure the officers would have preferred to cuff him standing up. He decided that wasn't going to happen.

You have no way to know what was in the mind of the officer who jumped on him with a chock hold from behind, do you?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Not a similar situation in any way and a further attempt to play games rather than address the actual event that is the thread topic.

Ummm... he was waving his hands in front of the cop, he was screaming at the police officer, he waved his hands in front of the cop. What's different? The cop's reaction. ;)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The cops shoved him in and watched him fall.

Were their actions illegal? Mr. Chokehold used a hold that is barred. Is it against the law or is it an employment rule? Based on what they did and what happened, did the cops have a reasonable expectation that he would die? Were they trying to cause him serious bodily harm? My answer to that question is no, they weren't. You?

Many people are acting as if the cops were intentionally trying to kill him -- or, at the very least, injure him. They were not. Was proper procedure for a no-warrant arrest followed? I don't think so. This was a cluster****. A man is dead who shouldn't be. Somebody(ies) should lose their jobs. Should someone go to jail for 10 years? I don't think so.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Even for traffic offenses they arrest you when they catch you doing the same offence the 32cd time.

So? It is a stupid thing for 5 cops to gang up on a guy for. Is NYC safer because they killed this master criminal?

You just keep excusing cops breaking their own rules.

Who calls the cops on the cops?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Civil rights violations are currently being investigated by the feds. I would be SHOCKED if the cops involved with this are not brought up on civil rights charges. I expect convictions, also.


I still can't believe they were not indicted by the grand jury. Very sad set of events to this point.

Not all of them. The one who jumped him by surprise from behind with a chock hold. That was an outright violent illegal assault.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

If Sharpton and the other community organizers get involved it a no duh that Holder will jump in too.
I hope Sharpton and the other race hustlers stay out of this one. They tend to de-legitimize everything they open their mouths about.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Ummm... he was waving his hands in front of the cop, he was screaming at the police officer, he waved his hands in front of the cop. What's different? The cop's reaction. ;)

Get back to the topic of the thread which doesn't require making up scenarios or playing "it's like this" games.
 
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Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

The cops did kill him, had they not intervened in the manner they did, he would still be alive. That doesn't mean police cannot intervene, as your hyperbole of "let them be killed or all criminals get to go free" argument you tried to give to hide the actual dynamics behind a false bimodal distribution.

government force is limited. But no where else in the world do we see death by cops as prevalent as we do in America. It points to a systematic problem of overreaction and excessive force. That needs to be curtailed.

Cops do not get to be judge and executioner, they must do their best to bring suspects in alive. Sorry if that so offends you.
Do cops get to arrest people? What do cops do when those people refuse to be detained ('resist arrest')?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

What the people whose property he was trespassing on? Screw'em? They just have to deal with it?

Tresspassing? On a city sidewalk?

Keep reaching for reasons to be for cops killing unarmed people selling cigarettes.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Not all of them. The one who jumped him by surprise from behind with a chock hold. That was an outright violent illegal assault.
I guess we'll have to wait and see. I expect that more than one will face civil rights charges.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

So? It is a stupid thing for 5 cops to gang up on a guy for. Is NYC safer because they killed this master criminal?

You just keep excusing cops breaking their own rules.

Who calls the cops on the cops?

I asked myself that question. If one or more citizens had rushed in to try to rescue that guy - is there any doubt that person would have been all but beaten to death and arrested for every charge they can think of?

People are now SO afraid of the police we all know we MUST just watch fellow citizens being assaulted and even beaten to death, daring not to come to a fellow human's aid IF police are the assailants.
 
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