• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ttwtt78640 said:
What, exactly, are you referring to as "the form of arrest"? It is typical in any arrest that the suspect is handcuffed and takien in for booking. This man had been arrested about 30 times before and was quite "tired of it" and decided to resist. What "other side" of cuffing a suspect placed under arrest is there? Should police simply let folks, that choose to resist arrest, go on their merry way?
Click to expand...

I'm not suggesting that at all. By "form of arrest", I mean that the police department itself banned its officers from use of that choke hold. A jury in a court could convict the officer of negligence leading to death if they believe that the officer ignored police regulations in the process of the arrest. A police officer can be negligent in the conduct of a legal act - that's my point.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Henrin said:
The rule of law only changes legality, not reality, and furthermore, they didn't have probable cause so your legality excuse doesn't apply. Nice try though.
Click to expand...
Shoooooooooore...right. :lamo So...you should be sure to encourage people you care about to resist arrest. And post the video.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
Still refuse to answer the question? What did he die of?
Click to expand...

Police action. I stated it a while back. :)
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

rhinefire said:
Looking at the video many time I have one question; why did the criminal refuse to cooperate with the police? Caught red handed he lifts his arms saying waddup dudes? then he places both hands on his hips sending another message of defiance. Resist the cops and you will pay.
Click to expand...


Red-handed doing what? he had a single pack of cigarettes in his pocket. He wasn't caught doing ****.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

vesper said:
Yes it is very relevant. We have Attorney General Eric Holder, Obama and race hustler Al Sharpton who apparently is an advisor to Obama on race related issues, in just a matter of weeks have gone after two Grand Jury decisions as being unjust. They have put a cloud of suspicion over the prosecutors in both cases. They have gone after the cops making claims that white police officers are racists and profilers chipping away at our judicial process.

Obama, Holder, Sharpton and others had a meeting at the White House over Ferguson and Staten Island and they came up with a list of things officers needed to change. Not once was there mentioned what could be done in these high crime areas to change the behavior. Not once did they address the high unemployment rate among blacks or the 70% of black babies that are born into fatherless families and poverty. They did not address the reason there is a noticeable presence of cops in these neighborhoods is directly due to the large volume of criminal activity in these areas. Instead, the "Three Amigos" Holder, Obama, and Sharpton are making it about race and harassment not holding those who break the law to accountability.

Though some claim a Grand Jury can indict a ham sandwich, that isn't true. There is a threshold that has to be met in order to indict an individual of the crime he/she is being accused. And if it is sent on to trial, the burden of proof becomes much greater. If a Grand Jury can't indict, then there is no way a court of law could convict. The video clearly shows the officer using a maneuver the NYPD banned. The Grand Jury was given the task to determine if that was enough evidence to indict the officer of the charges leveled against him. After weighing all the evidence, they found it did not. Evidence you nor any of us are privy to. And as mentioned previously, the officer was stripped of his gun and badge over the incident.

Quite frankly the frenzy over race being instigated by Holder, Obama and Sharpton has led to this lynch mob mentality toward cops and law enforcement. ( especially white cops). And nothing good will come from it.
Click to expand...

Every single word you typed here is 100% irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not the police used unnecessary force in the attempted arrest of Garner. All the typical right-wing bitching about "race hustlers" changes nothing that was captured on that tape.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

jmotivator said:
No, it isn't intellectually dishonest. A choke hold is not usually lethal when applied for more than 5 minutes (4 minutes without oxygen starts brain damage). The choke hold administered to Gardner lasted, and I counted, 13 seconds. That isn't even enough to knock someone out. All of this is clearly in evidence even in the Gardener video since he was still conscious even after the submission hold was released.
Click to expand...

You're missing the point.

Choking someone can be lethal as you stated. Just because he didn't have the five minutes to kill Garner doesn't mean the force he used can be considered lethal.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MMC said:
Did he attempt to take his hands away from being cuffed? Did he not put his hand up and slightly push the cop back even though it wasn't really a push?

Banned doesn't mean it was illegal.
Click to expand...

Moving your hands. DEATH!!!! DEATH!!!!
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Peter Grimm said:
You pretty much would have to sell to the grand jury that the officers knew this man wasn't guilty of anything but they took him down and arrested him anyway. To me, that's a reach.
Click to expand...

I don't have to sell them anything. It's allegedly - he was never tried or convicted of any crime because he died.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CRUE CAB said:
Troubles me that one there is a law against selling individual cigs. But two, he there is that law and he broke in many times.
Dude was not a saint and was well known to the police. Never ends well for anyone.
Click to expand...



Please cite the particular law making it illegal to sell indiviudal cigarettes.



You all have failed at showing his 31 convictions, so I won't be voluntarily holding my breath,.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
Shoooooooooore...right. :lamo So...you should be sure to encourage people you care about to resist arrest. And post the video.
Click to expand...

I see you don't have an argument. The police of an legal exception to assault people, but if their action falls outside of that exception then you can't make the argument their action was in fact legal. I'm sorry that your argument failed, but that is what happens when your argument is wrong.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

ReverendHellh0und said:
Red-handed doing what? he had a single pack of cigarettes in his pocket. He wasn't caught doing ****.
Click to expand...

The thing is that people are acting as if selling somebody cigarettes is really a crime worthy of arrest. Why not a fine? A stern talking to? I don't know, maybe asking him to hand over the cigarettes? There are about 10 different options a cop could have exercised before deciding this guy needed to be arrested for the horrible crime of selling smokes.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

Henrin said:
Who the **** cares if the guy that made the video is a criminal? Does that somehow change what is in the video somehow? A possessing a weapon illegally is hardly something I give two ****s about.
Click to expand...

As I stated earlier, it is relevant as it shows the reason why there is such a presence of law enforcement in the area. They are not there to harass black people as some like Holder, Obama, and Sharpton claim. They are there because of the volume of criminal activity taking place in that neighborhood.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Henrin said:
Yes, just take it and hope justice is served. We should tell that to all assault victims. Don't fight back, just let them assault you and fight it later in court. :lamo Maybe you should review the definition of assault and tell me exactly how this wasn't assault. Go ahead, tell me how the definition of assault doesn't apply to everything that happened here. It should fun reading that pile of bull****. I imagine you will say, but this was lawful, but oh dear, you see, they didn't have probable cause and they did in fact attack and kill the man. You fail.
Click to expand...

That's just silly. It's not "assault" if you're actively resisting arrest or impeding an official police investigation.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Erod said:
Now this is the new thing I guess.

CNN Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

These cases - Trayvon, Ferguson, NYC - aren't about race. I know that's the agenda, but that's not what they're about. It's about confrontation between police and uncooperative citizens, and how these situations are handled.

And anyone here would be uncomfortable if a guy kept walking back and forth in front of your house and staring at you with his hands in his pockets. Of course they called the police, and of course the policeman pulled over on the call to investigate the situation. It wouldn't matter the race of the guy scoping you out in front of your house. You'd want it looked into, as would I.

Now it's going to be the new thing to set up police officers like this. The end result is nobody is going to want to join the police force anymore. Then what?
Click to expand...

Trayvon had nothing to do with police.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

vesper said:
As I stated earlier, it is relevant as it shows the reason why there is such a presence of law enforcement in the area. They are not there to harass black people as some like Holder, Obama, and Sharpton claim. They are there because of the volume of criminal activity taking place in that neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Obama claimed police are in the community to harass people? Holder claimed that? Please show links! I'll wait.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Rainman05 said:
It is at this point I'd like to point out that the black cop who killed the white young man in Utah also got away without any charges.

So before you make it a racial thing, no, it isn't.
Click to expand...

No, it's more of a police state thing.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Hatuey said:
Police action. I stated it a while back. :)
Click to expand...
ANd see...you would be wrong.

"OCME spokeswoman Julie Bolcer said Friday that Garner, a 43-year-old father of six, died from "compression of neck (choke hold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police."

His weight -- Garner weighed more than 300 pounds -- and pre-existing medical conditions -- acute and chronic bronchial asthma and hypertensive cardiovascular disease -- also contributed to Garner's death, the OCME's report states."

which means he didnt die of 'homicide'. Once the full findings of the autopsy are released we will see the actual cause of death. As they list "acute and chronic bronchial asthma and hypertensive cardiovascular disease" its probable that it will show he had a coronary attack, not he died because 'the police homicided him'. An 8 second choke hold most probably did NOT kill him.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Rainman05 said:
Is that supposed to be witty?

The problem in the USA is the 0-tolerance fiasco that's been going on for some time now.
You see in the news about your schools where a kid playing with a toy gun (from a toy) gets detention and is treated like a criminal and has to sign a document attesting that he understands the difference between a toy and a gun. It's insane.
Anyway, I'm assuming that such a mentality is pervasive in many police stations.

0 tolerance makes thinking obsolete because everything is treated as either one thing or another.

The USA has a problem with this 0 tolerance in general and it's spilling over into europe. 0 tolerance in this and that, and many areas of life. And this mentality is because of perverse and pervasive leftist thinking, aka "progressives". they're the ones who push this sort of mentality.
Click to expand...

Zero tolerance causes police to kill unarmed Americans?
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

vesper said:
As I stated earlier, it is relevant as it shows the reason why there is such a presence of law enforcement in the area. They are not there to harass black people as some like Holder, Obama, and Sharpton claim. They are there because of the volume of criminal activity taking place in that neighborhood.
Click to expand...

You mean like the guy who was stopped the other day because they called the cops on him for walking around with his hands in his pockets? I can assure you that's never happened to me.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

vesper said:
As I stated earlier, it is relevant as it shows the reason why there is such a presence of law enforcement in the area. They are not there to harass black people as some like Holder, Obama, and Sharpton claim. They are there because of the volume of criminal activity taking place in that neighborhood.
Click to expand...

Please link to where Holder, Obama or Sharpton claimed that NYC cops were on that particular street corner at that particular time to "harass black people." In fact, please link to Obama or Holder (I'll even give you Sharpton) accusing the police of "harassing black people."
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

VanceMack said:
ANd see...you would be wrong.
Click to expand...

As his death was ruled a homicide? Which means in every definition of the word that someone's actions led to his death? I am most certainly not. Please stop this. You ****ed up and didn't realize the larger argument
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom