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No Indictment in Chokehold Death [W:1903,2680]

Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MaggieD said:
Amadeus, they didn't tackle and choke him because he wasn't paying a tax. They took him to the ground because he resisted arrest.

People!!! Tell your damned kids, family and friends to fight the coppers in the courtroom not on the street. We've lost hundreds of thousands of men in battlefields to give you that right. Jesus!!
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So why was the pressure not released from his neck once that had "control" of him/the situation?

Heck...why was a air restriction hold used in the first place?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
The New York Medical Examiner has ruled Garner's death a homicide. The cause of death was "compression of neck (chokehold), compression of chest and prone positioning during physical restraint by police."​
I see three things mentioned.
The cause of death was:
1) compression of neck (chokehold),
2) compression of chest
3) and prone positioning during physical restraint by police."
One-third chokehold. Two thirds absolute fatass. Hmmm. What to think. A very fat man resists arrest and dies of a heart attack while being arrested. Oh, and the most important thing to consider was the color of all of their skins.
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You sound almost gleeful
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

clownboy said:
Yeah, those other 31 times he'd been caught for the same thing don't mean a thing. :mrgreen:
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So they "assumed" he was guilty just because he had done it before?
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

lizzie said:
Well, even that isn't likely. I rarely see a case brought in to the ER in which cpr was done, and the patient went on to live any semblance of a life at all, and they almost never survive the initial incident. If he had survived, it's very likely that he would have had profound and lasting brain damage. In my entire life as an RN, I've seen one successful case of CPR in the field, that resulted in good mental recovery, but he was a paraplegic after he was kept alive.
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In this article discussing the low return on investment of CPR, it has these statistics:

A 2012 study showed that only about 2% of adults who collapse on the street and receive CPR recover fully. Another from 2009 (PDF) showed that anywhere from 4% to 16% of patients who received bystander CPR were eventually discharged from the hospital. About 18% of seniors who receive CPR at the hospital survive to be discharged, according to a third study (PDF).
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Those are solid enough for me. And in those cases, they were performed by bystanders who probably have received little to no training. Obviously technique is important:

In some cities that have less CPR training, the survival rate is indeed low, Sayre says. But in other metropolitan areas with strong training programs and quick EMS response times, half or more victims survive.
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I'm sorry, but I'm going to remain pro-CPR.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:
Are they releasing the testimonies like they did in the Fergie case?
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I hope so. The tape doesn't look good at all. But the testimonies may be different. Just from looking at the tape, the "chokehold" didn't look tight enough to choke him. Plus, as I've always learned from Marine Corps Martial Arts, if you're talking you're breathing. He was saying "I can't breath." If he can talk, he's pulling air in. I've heard he had some medical issues like asthma so that was probably what put it over the edge. Of course, the medical examiners stupid cause of death (homicide) didn't help.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Texmex said:
Civil Rights violations are a serious matter.
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LOL.

Sure. If one is trying to nationalize the local police forces I suppose it is as good a tool as anything.

Do you think he died because he was black? What civil right was being violated? Was it the right to sell cigarettes on the street? If so we agree that the right response to this is a tax revolt.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Chase said:
So why was the pressure not released from his neck once that had "control" of him/the situation?

Heck...why was a air restriction hold used in the first place?
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I sure can't answer that, except apparently we've lowered height restrictions a bit too much in the name of diversity...
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

"Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air...

...If a person appears to be having difficulty breathing or is otherwise demonstrating life-threatening symptoms, medical assistance will be requested IMMEDIATELY." (NYPD Patrol Guide, 203-11, emphasis in original)


All you folks who stick up for the cops because they were arresting someone for doing something wrong....but you seem to conveniently forget that the cops were breaking their own rules.

Hypocrisy......
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Μολὼν λαβέ;1064051698 said:
(Do not) try this; have someone place you in a choke hold and see if you can breathe. I'll bet you get out a few "I can't breathe" statements before passing out, or maybe dying.

The point is he can't breathe now, can he? Who made that happen?
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After my unsuccessful efforts at elbow licking I actually had my husband just do this (he thinks I'm nuts, but did it anyway). He didn't do it really hard either obviously. I actually couldn't get any statements out. When I couldn't breathe in, there was nothing to expend out. Granted he probably didn't do it the same way as what happened to this guy but no I wasn't able to speak. I had to stomp my foot. Now I'm dizzy too.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
A very fat man resists arrest and dies of a heart attack while being arrested.
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This, although crudely put, is more or less how I see it as well.

It's unfortunate and tragic, especially due to the family he leaves behind and due to the fact that this crime was so minor, but I'm not inclined to want to pursue criminal charges against anyone on account of this.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

whysoserious said:
As I recall, none were performed until paramedics arrived many minutes later. Without even doing the breathing part, simple chest compressions alone could have easily saved this man.

*Edit:

Actually, EMS workers apparently did not perform CPR either??? Not sure.
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Easily? Are you EMT trained? Do we have anyone here who can tell us how often someone is restored, who has died from two decades of stupidity, by chest compressions?

My American Red Cross Training has aged but from memory the chances of restoring someone are very, very small.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

whysoserious said:
In this article discussing the low return on investment of CPR, it has these statistics:



Those are solid enough for me. And in those cases, they were performed by bystanders who probably have received little to no training. Obviously technique is important:



I'm sorry, but I'm going to remain pro-CPR.
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Who says I'm anti-cpr. I've been doing CPR for 30 years, and I'm ACLS certified. I'm just telling you that the success rates aren't impressive, and frankly, your links show that to be the case. Discharged from the hospital doesn't mean in good condition. It means they survived physically. Like I said, I've only seen one person (out in the field) who survived it with his mind totally intact, and he was physically screwed by the paralysis afterward.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MarineTpartier said:
I hope so. The tape doesn't look good at all. But the testimonies may be different. Just from looking at the tape, the "chokehold" didn't look tight enough to choke him. Plus, as I've always learned from Marine Corps Martial Arts, if you're talking you're breathing. He was saying "I can't breath." If he can talk, he's pulling air in. I've heard he had some medical issues like asthma so that was probably what put it over the edge. Of course, the medical examiners stupid cause of death (homicide) didn't help.
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Just posted below that I had my husband chokehold me for a few seconds. i couldn't utter a sound because there was no air to pull in and i had exhaled before. yes he was getting air in that hold. not that I think it was right but it wasn't cutting off his breathing.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

CanadaJohn said:
Personally, I'm troubled by this one far more so than the Ferguson decision. In the Ferguson incident, Michael Brown absolutely contributed to and caused his own demise. In this case, in NYC, we're talking about what is virtually a by-law infraction - selling cigarettes loosely, without tax, and local variety stores and businesses pressure police to stop it. But nobody, in my view, should die because they broke a by-law. Now, this man clearly was resisting arrest - he was surrounded by police and he kept pulling his hands back when the police tried to handcuff him. As with Michael Brown, this man is another "gentle giant". What is it about big black men that they resist arrest to the death?

This is a case, I believe, that should have gone to trial so that the entire NYC community could see and review the evidence and a jury could pass judgement on whether or not manslaughter was an appropriate charge. The community, in this case, should determine whether or not a banned choke hold being used in order to secure an arrest is reasonable force. For me, I don't see why the police didn't simply issue the man a summons to appear in court on the by-law charge.

This one bothers me a lot.

Edit:
It seems that the man in this case had 31 prior arrests for similar minor offenses and apparently "knew the drill" - what possessed him to resist this one to the death is puzzling.
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Some people have always done what they shouldn't do.

Why did the cop use an illegal choke-hold and why did the grand jury give him a pass? :roll:
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

He died because his heart stopped, not because he couldn't breath. Now, choking him was a likely factor in his heart stopping...stress kills fat people. It's a fact.


Also a fact?


Resisting arrest, no matter the offense, can, and likely WILL, result in violence, and a continuing escalation of such until either all of them, or you, are dead. There is no other option.


Cops should, what? Let unhealthy people go? Sit around for five hours trying to reason with unreasonable people? Cops get paid by the hour, folks. Should they negotiate with the people they intend to arrest? "Oh, sorry, sir, you DON'T want these cuffs? Well, I'll tell you what...you don't tell anyone about this, and I'll just let you right on in the back of my car, ok? Just for you."



Here's the facts. This guy clearly broke a rule, no matter how insignificant. He was placed under arrest for the, what, 30th time? He resisted. He did not comply with the orders issued him by the arresting officer. The officer then proceeded to use force, to which, he resisted that as well. The force escalated. Again, what you want the cops to do? Apologize? Let him go? But only those that REALLY don't want to get arrested, and only if it's not a serious crime?

You have a problem with the law he broke, take that up with those that write them, and more importantly, those that vote in those that write them...not the people charged with enforcing them.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

beefheart said:
"Members of the New York City Police Department will NOT use chokeholds. A chokehold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air...

...If a person appears to be having difficulty breathing or is otherwise demonstrating life-threatening symptoms, medical assistance will be requested IMMEDIATELY." (NYPD Patrol Guide, 203-11, emphasis in original)


All you folks who stick up for the cops because they were arresting someone for doing something wrong....but you seem to conveniently forget that the cops were breaking their own rules.

Hypocrisy......
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There's a difference between breaking a department-wide rule and breaking the law (manslaughter).

This officer should be reprimanded or fired by the NYPD, no doubt about that. He should not be charged with any crime, though.
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

CRUE CAB said:
Justice was served. He got what he was asking for.
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He seems to have just been standing there and there does not appear to be any cigs on his person! They said that he had just broken up a fight.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Easily? Are you EMT trained? Do we have anyone here who can tell us how often someone is restored, who has died from two decades of stupidity, by chest compressions?

My American Red Cross Training has aged but from memory the chances of restoring someone are very, very small.
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I've already responded to someone about this saying easily was the wrong word - I just mean easily as in it's easy to do and it is helpful. It could have saved his life.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

Misterveritis said:
Or maybe we do not yet have a complete picture of what occurred.
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Sure we do.

Black guy on street accused of petty crap. A gang of white officers kill him with one sneaking up behind him using an illegal choke hold on him which had been barred for decades. Thats a very complete picture.

New York state must be one really badass place when you can get the death penalty for selling loose cigarettes. :roll::doh
 
Re: NYPD officer in Eric Garner chokehold death not indicted by Staten Island grand j

vesper said:
I said "swatted" not smacked. And yes he did. First he stood there and argued with them. He started backing up from them and swatted at them to push them away as they tried to arrest him.
Yes it is illegal in NYC to use the chokehold. The officer was stripped of his badge and gun for that action.
And for your information, the one that filmed the video that has gone viral was Garner's friend, Ramsey Orta.

"The man who recorded a New York City police officer using a chokehold during the arrest of a man who later died in custody was arrested himself late Saturday on a gun charge.

Ramsey Orta, 22, is charged with two counts of criminal possession of a weapon. Police said Orta had a previous weapon conviction that prohibited him from possessing a firearm. He is due in court this month on robbery charges stemming from a May arrest and an assault charge from an arrest July 14, according to court records."

Man who recorded video of NYPD chokehold arrested on gun charge | Fox News

Garner nor his friend that filmed the video are/were law abiding citizens.
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No... Never once did he swat at the police. He flailed a bit in his own personal space and tried to retract his arms after the cops grabbed his arm. I dont get why you are posting some "thug" stuff that has nothing to do with the event captured on video. Your tactic seems to be "The cops wrong doing should be ignored because it would be a shame to punish him killing someone who was a "thug". Thats a pretty crappy tactic.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

tres borrachos said:
Just posted below that I had my husband chokehold me for a few seconds. i couldn't utter a sound because there was no air to pull in and i had exhaled before. yes he was getting air in that hold. not that I think it was right but it wasn't cutting off his breathing.
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Sounds hot.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MaggieD said:
Amadeus, they didn't tackle and choke him because he wasn't paying a tax. They took him to the ground because he resisted arrest.

People!!! Tell your damned kids, family and friends to fight the coppers in the courtroom not on the street. We've lost hundreds of thousands of men in battlefields to give you that right. Jesus!!
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He was being arrested... for selling bootleg cigarettes...

Do you realize how hypocritical you look when you agreed with Clive Bundy's bull**** argument about ancestral rights* while ignoring that he broke the law by not paying millions in taxes and then come here justifying this vicious attack by the NYPD because someone decided this guy was the worst criminal since... I don't know... any other low level bootleg cigarette peddler in the continental US?

*Whatever the **** that bull**** means in a country where one group of people showed up and destroyed another people's culture over land.
 
Re: No Indictment in Chokehold Death

MaggieD said:
He did.
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So he killed himself? Not according to the coroner's report. The cop killed him. It was ruled a homicide, not a suicide.
 
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